Israel, US, and Abbas want peace...Hamas doesn't

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Comments

  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VedJam wrote:
    the initial and primary reason that the army is there is to help us and them to.. it is very clear since the last war that fatah's people is launching missiles and retreating to populated areas mainly so that we woulden't shoot them down.. thats the main reason ppl get hurt over there..

    i think maybe Israel is not loosening the leash a little so that it woulden't appear as weak and invite even more attack after they already went in there "uninvited"..

    Thanks. I appreciate your input. Where in Israel do you hail from?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    I'd still like to know if you think there's a chance that PJ would come over here.. and if any of you met or know some of the Israelis that flew over to see'em?
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    Im from Raanana yo
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    VedJam wrote:
    I'd still like to know if you think there's a chance that PJ would come over here.. and if any of you met or know some of the Israelis that flew over to see'em?

    If you post over in the porch you may find some Israeli pj fans. I remember seeing a few who post. yosi, is one I believe.

    I really dont ever see pj going to Israel while there is a conflict. based on eddie's politics I would suspect he doesnt like US's strong military support for Israel. but this is just my opinion.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    mammasan wrote:
    Hamas was invited

    no they weren't.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VedJam wrote:
    Im from Raanana yo

    Where is that near? My girlfriend has family in Hasharon.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    VedJam wrote:
    I'd still like to know if you think there's a chance that PJ would come over here.. and if any of you met or know some of the Israelis that flew over to see'em?
    i don't know VedJam if they will ever get there. i mean, hey they still won't commit to playing the South in US so who knows. i have not met any of your wonderful fans but i do know there is as petition going around to help get PJ there.
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pearljam_to_israel/index.html

    Edit to add:

    this is why pj fans are the best. none of us really have ANY idea what it is like living in a country so different to ours. unless we have experienced it. all the talking about it, and reading various articles, still doesn't give you the full picture. then i read this, and it's like for one minute i am on the same wavelength as you. if that makes sense.

    Whoever may read this – thank you for taking your time. We deeply appreciate it.
    Here's for no more lives wasted, music & peace.
    Wishing to rock with you in the free world.
    Your fans in Israel.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    _FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:
    no they weren't.

    Ok I just did a search and you are correct. I was misinformed.

    Well now I have to rethink my position and offer an apology to Byrnzie.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    Ok I just did a search and you are correct. I was misinformed.

    Well now I have to rethink my position and offer an apology to Byrnzie.

    Hamas is calling for a boycott of the peace conference. seems rather pointless for anyone to offer formal invite.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Hamas is calling for a boycott of the peace conference. seems rather pointless for anyone to offer formal invite.

    Well not to defend Hamas but they are the legitamate head of the Palestinian government. I understand why they where not invited, the fact that they do not recognize Israel's right to exist, but if they are not involved in peacefull talks how can you expect them to turn to diplomacy instead of just relying on violence.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    Well not to defend Hamas but they are the legitamate head of the Palestinian government. I understand why they where not invited, the fact that they do not recognize Israel's right to exist, but if they are not involved in peacefull talks how can you expect them to turn to diplomacy instead of just relying on violence.

    yea I agree, if it were me, I would invite them. its just a fucked up situation. neither side is willing to talk to the other. (israel and hamas)

    obviously Israel is more then willing to talk to fatah and abbas.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    jlew24asu wrote:
    yea I agree, if it were me, I would invite them. its just a fucked up situation. neither side is willing to talk to the other. (israel and hamas)

    obviously Israel is more then willing to talk to fatah and abbas.

    They will talk to Fatah but fatah is not the problem, Hamas is. As long as Hamas is not brought to the table they will continue to use violence as a means of obtaining their goals. I'm not saying that diplomacy will definitely work but hopefully if shown that diplomacy can work they may be more adapt to resorting to peacefull negotiations over suicide attacks.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    They will talk to Fatah but fatah is not the problem, Hamas is. As long as Hamas is not brought to the table they will continue to use violence as a means of obtaining their goals. I'm not saying that diplomacy will definitely work but hopefully if shown that diplomacy can work they may be more adapt to resorting to peacefull negotiations over suicide attacks.

    maybe if progress is made during these talks, abbas can try and unite (peacefully) with hamas. I think you mentioned that hamas leaders want to be a legitimate body without violence. hopefully thats a start.
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    mammasan wrote:
    if shown that diplomacy can work they may be more adapt to resorting to peacefull negotiations over suicide attacks.

    in what way that has not been tried yet do you think Israel can show hamas that diplomacy can work?
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VedJam wrote:
    in what way that has not been tried yet do you think Israel can show hamas that diplomacy can work?

    I'm not saying that Israel hasn't tried, but I think that by excluding Hamas you are closing that option to them only leaving violence as an alternative. For a group that has shown that they will use violence without any regret or remorse, Hamas needs to be given an alternative to rely upon.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • VedJam
    VedJam Posts: 18
    i no you didn't..

    and i think you meant Ramat Hasharon.. and ya, its very close..:]
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    VedJam wrote:
    i no you didn't..

    and i think you meant Ramat Hasharon.. and ya, its very close..:]

    That's it. It's near Herzliya right.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    MrSmith wrote:
    Are you talking about Israel itslef as occupied territory? If so, they gotta let it fucking go. Israel isn't going anywhere. People are moved in for good. Even if Israel's existence is illegal, There has to be a statute of limitations on that type of thing. To continue sacrificing your people's lives for a bit of land after its become clear you have no outside support and will never win is just ridiculous, and ultimately selfish. It becomes a crusade.
    so if you can take someones land...and hold it for 2 generations...that's it..its yours...woo hoo.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    jlew24asu wrote:
    one side: willing to talk and make concessions and wants peace

    *other side: does not see the right for the other to exist.


    * only Hamas. Abbas's government is ready for talks and peace.


    its a damn shame.
    do you know the history of Isreal...and its foundation? Not being sarcastic mind you.
    Pretty much land was taken away and givin to the jews....going to take more than a couple of generations for the losers of that land to get over it....if you were a palastinian or muslim...you'd feel the same way.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Thecure
    Thecure Posts: 814
    callen wrote:
    so if you can take someones land...and hold it for 2 generations...that's it..its yours...woo hoo.

    so i quess you will be giving your land up to the natives in your country.

    i am not saying that i agree with Isreal but i think we have to look at this as a bigger issue.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

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