Obama, Clinton to skip Fox-backed debate

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Comments

  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    jeffbr wrote:
    I think that people are mistaking Fox's viewership for some small, far-right, insignificant portion of the voting public. In reality, the only way they got to be number one was appealing to a broader audience. I am not arguing their bias, they've made that abundantly clear. I'm also not a Fox apologist or defender. But I do believe that for any Dem or Rep to win, they need to take votes away from the middle. The network with the largest viewership is going to contain large numbers of these voters in the middle.

    I agree with your point that people who wouldn't switch to another network to watch the debate are not your target. But I didn't see that switch as an option presented. The debate is either on or off. When presented with that choice, I still think it makes sense to reach out.
    But that isn't the only choice. While technically they're simply calling off the Fox debate, it's not like it's the only one. The first Democratic debate is on MSNBC on April 26th.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    RainDog wrote:
    But that isn't the only choice. While technically they're simply calling off the Fox debate, it's not like it's the only one. The first Democratic debate is on MSNBC on April 26th.

    Right. So it is better to go from 3 to 2 debates? Is it also better to have 3 debates in front of the same audience, or in front of 3 different audiences.

    Campaigns are about exposure. Increasing exposure is always a good thing.

    And the charade about principles is laughable. Everyone knows that principles are the first things kicked to a curb in order to make it on a national level.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    jeffbr wrote:
    Right. So it is better to go from 3 to 2 debates? Is it also better to have 3 debates in front of the same audience, or in front of 3 different audiences.

    Campaigns are about exposure. Increasing exposure is always a good thing.

    And the charade about principles is laughable. Everyone knows that principles are the first things kicked to a curb in order to make it on a national level.
    If "increasing exposure is always a good thing" then I believe it's a good thing they dissed Fox. That gave them more exposure than any actual debate would have. I can't answer your first question, though; the only debate I know of is the first one on MSNBC. Are they all going to be on that single station, or are they just cutting Fox out?

    As for the charade about principles, you're probably right. However, this isn't the general. When that rolls around, they'll likely be broadcast on Fox (along with every other station). The Democratic Party Debates are really only of interest to a small segment of the Democratic Party. Why would they debate on a largely Republican station? Most of the audience wouldn't be able to vote in the primary anyway. Hell, to most of the population in this country, the primary election doesn't even show up on their radar. To most of the population, the only thing that matters is the general.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    jeffbr wrote:
    Right. So it is better to go from 3 to 2 debates? Is it also better to have 3 debates in front of the same audience, or in front of 3 different audiences.

    Campaigns are about exposure. Increasing exposure is always a good thing.

    And the charade about principles is laughable. Everyone knows that principles are the first things kicked to a curb in order to make it on a national level.

    i've been under the impression that the DNC sanctioned 6 debates before the primary season, and the FOX one wasn't on that list. furthermore, clinton and obama aides said they would do the sanctioned 6.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    VictoryGin wrote:
    i've been under the impression that the DNC sanctioned 6 debates before the primary season, and the FOX one wasn't on that list. furthermore, clinton and obama aides said they would do the sanctioned 6.


    Cool. I was only responding to the info in the article in the original post. If there are 6 sanctioned debates that the DNC has set up, then it is more understandable that they wouldn't do more - although I still believe exposure is a good thing, and broadening the audience for your message gives you better reach.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • suntzu98
    suntzu98 Posts: 100
    The problem here lies in the the leftist points of view scattered all over network television and broadcasters alike. What is the problem with a cable news probgram who gives a different point of view that companies such as ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, etc... have so strongly turned away from? Show me one Conservative point of view on any of these networks, problem with that is you can not. So Fox News is an outcast because it shows the true bias in the coverage of news, by Secular Progressives and mainstream left media period, Hillary Barack and Edwards should do whatever they can to keep Rosie and Cindy and Bill Maher happy.
    Philly '98 '00 (1 & 2) '03 '06 (1 & 2) '08 (1 & 2)
    East Rutherford '98
    Merriweather '98
    Gorge '05
    Vancouver '05
    Los Angeles I,II '06
    Santa Barbara '06
    Fonda Theater '06
  • Smellyman2
    Smellyman2 Posts: 689
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8p1IuPcW-c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fummyeah%2Ecom%2Fpage%2FThe%5FSimpsons%5FMakes%5FFun%5FOf%5FFox%5Fnews
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    suntzu98 wrote:
    Bill Maher happy.

    Bill Mahr is a libertarian.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • WMA
    WMA Posts: 175
    suntzu98 wrote:
    The problem here lies in the the leftist points of view scattered all over network television and broadcasters alike. What is the problem with a cable news probgram who gives a different point of view that companies such as ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, etc... have so strongly turned away from? Show me one Conservative point of view on any of these networks, problem with that is you can not. So Fox News is an outcast because it shows the true bias in the coverage of news, by Secular Progressives and mainstream left media period, Hillary Barack and Edwards should do whatever they can to keep Rosie and Cindy and Bill Maher happy.

    None of those networks are 'liberal'. They may be less conservative than Fox, but there is a fair share of conservative views also unless you are only watching the few specific personalities that the right hates.

    MSNBC is liberal because Olbermann has a show from 8-9pm supposedly, but ...

    If you look at the program schedule around it, it doesn't seem quite so liberal:

    4pm-5pm Tucker
    5pm-6pm Hardball with Chris Matthews
    6pm-7pm Tucker
    7pm-8pm Hardball with Chris Matthews
    8pm - 9pm Countdown with Keith Olbermann
    9pm-10pm Scarborough Country
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    WMA wrote:
    None of those networks are 'liberal'. They may be less conservative than Fox, but there is a fair share of conservative views also unless you are only watching the few specific personalities that the right hates.

    MSNBC is liberal because Olbermann has a show from 8-9pm supposedly, but ...

    If you look at the program schedule around it, it doesn't seem quite so liberal:

    4pm-5pm Tucker
    5pm-6pm Hardball with Chris Matthews
    6pm-7pm Tucker
    7pm-8pm Hardball with Chris Matthews
    8pm - 9pm Countdown with Keith Olbermann
    9pm-10pm Scarborough Country

    The one hour liberal monoploy of the media.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • suntzu98
    suntzu98 Posts: 100
    Matt Lauer, Katie Couric, Dan Rather, Stone Phillips, Wolf Blitzer, Chris Matthews, Barbara Walters, so which of these are conservative?
    Philly '98 '00 (1 & 2) '03 '06 (1 & 2) '08 (1 & 2)
    East Rutherford '98
    Merriweather '98
    Gorge '05
    Vancouver '05
    Los Angeles I,II '06
    Santa Barbara '06
    Fonda Theater '06
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    suntzu98 wrote:
    Matt Lauer, Katie Couric, Dan Rather, Stone Phillips, Wolf Blitzer, Chris Matthews, Barbara Walters, so which of these are conservative?

    I don't know any of their political affiliation, but just because a TV personality disagrees with the actions of the current administration doesn't necessarily mean that they are liberal, conservative, Republican, or Democrat. It simply just means that they don't agree with the president. My father is a hard core Republican, the man practically worships Reagan, but he disagrees with Bush on many issues. Does that make him a liberal?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    suntzu98 wrote:
    The problem here lies in the the leftist points of view scattered all over network television and broadcasters alike. What is the problem with a cable news probgram who gives a different point of view that companies such as ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, etc... have so strongly turned away from? Show me one Conservative point of view on any of these networks, problem with that is you can not. So Fox News is an outcast because it shows the true bias in the coverage of news, by Secular Progressives and mainstream left media period, Hillary Barack and Edwards should do whatever they can to keep Rosie and Cindy and Bill Maher happy.
    The problem is Fox News takes complete regressive insanity and labels it conservative. So, by comparison, the other more balanced, rational (and, therefore, less ratings condusive) networks get labeled as flaming leftists.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    mammasan wrote:
    I don't know any of their political affiliation, but just because a TV personality disagrees with the actions of the current administration doesn't necessarily mean that they are liberal, conservative, Republican, or Democrat. It simply just means that they don't agree with the president. My father is a hard core Republican, the man practically worships Reagan, but he disagrees with Bush on many issues. Does that make him a liberal?
    My dad was a hard core conservative all his life, he supported Bush for a long time. You could tell he was weakening by '04, but he still voted for him. Katrina was what made him crack. Now I don't know if he's even a conservative anymore, he sounds more and more like me every time I talk to him. He's even starting to rethink a lot of Reagan policies that he'd always agreed with, because he's beginning to see how they led to what we have now.

    Bush may wind up being the best thing that ever happened for progressives in this country ;)
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • suntzu98
    suntzu98 Posts: 100
    But then why is okay to "label" Fox News as Conservative seeing as how it has been but not okay to "label" any other network or cable news company what they are? Terrell Owens said it best " if it looks like a rat, and sounds like a rat by god it must be a rat." Are you really gonna tell me you don't any of the affiliations of these profoundly liberal commentators? I'm sure you have a problem with Bill Oreilly, but Bill Maher is fine.
    Philly '98 '00 (1 & 2) '03 '06 (1 & 2) '08 (1 & 2)
    East Rutherford '98
    Merriweather '98
    Gorge '05
    Vancouver '05
    Los Angeles I,II '06
    Santa Barbara '06
    Fonda Theater '06
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    suntzu98 wrote:
    But then why is okay to "label" Fox News as Conservative seeing as how it has been but not okay to "label" any other network or cable news company what they are? Terrell Owens said it best " if it looks like a rat, and sounds like a rat by god it must be a rat." Are you really gonna tell me you don't any of the affiliations of these profoundly liberal commentators?
    Actually, I usually only know the affiliations of conservative commentators (glaring exceptions exist, of course). I guess that if you're not reminding everyone who'll listen that you're a conservative every chance you get, you're obviously a liberal.
    suntzu98 wrote:
    I'm sure you have a problem with Bill Oreilly, but Bill Maher is fine.
    That's simply a matter of taste. Personally, I don't like Bill O'Reilly's brand of comedy.
  • suntzu98
    suntzu98 Posts: 100
    You really don't see the problem with Presidential candidtates forgoing a debate that may in fact win over "hearts and minds"? The point here is to reach a broad spectrum not just your base, there are many on both sides of the aisle who are upset with one another, maybe to really reform and change you must reach out to those who have been forgotten and do a sponsored debate by a company maybe your ideals are not in line with and that my "liberal" friends is what should happen here.
    Philly '98 '00 (1 & 2) '03 '06 (1 & 2) '08 (1 & 2)
    East Rutherford '98
    Merriweather '98
    Gorge '05
    Vancouver '05
    Los Angeles I,II '06
    Santa Barbara '06
    Fonda Theater '06
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    suntzu98 wrote:
    You really don't see the problem with Presidential candidtates forgoing a debate that may in fact win over "hearts and minds"? The point here is to reach a broad spectrum not just your base, there are many on both sides of the aisle who are upset with one another, maybe to really reform and change you must reach out to those who have been forgotten and do a sponsored debate by a company maybe your ideals are not in line with and that my "liberal" friends is what should happen here.
    Conservatives don't know how to watch other stations besides Fox? Should Democrats in a Presidential primary - an election that includes a small segment of the population, and only Democrats - spend their campaign time pitching woo to the largely Republican Fox audience, even though none of them are allowed to vote in a Democratic primary? Would you waste your time trying to sell a ten-speed bicycle to an uninterested no-legged man while your shop is full of interested biking enthusiasts ?
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    suntzu98 wrote:
    But then why is okay to "label" Fox News as Conservative seeing as how it has been but not okay to "label" any other network or cable news company what they are? Terrell Owens said it best " if it looks like a rat, and sounds like a rat by god it must be a rat." Are you really gonna tell me you don't any of the affiliations of these profoundly liberal commentators? I'm sure you have a problem with Bill Oreilly, but Bill Maher is fine.

    I know Obermann and Matthews lean more towards the liberal end of the spectrum but I honestly don't know the opolitical affiliation of the others nor do I care. They can say and or believe in what ever they want it doesn't impact me in anyway. I think FoxNews is cconsidered a conservative news outlet because most of the non-news shows on there (O'Reilly, Hannity) are more conservative and they really don't offer any opposing view points. On MSNBC. while you may have Obermann and Matthews, you do have Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarsbourgh (who is by far my favorite of all of them).

    Lastly you really can't compare O'Reilly to Mahr. One is a commentator the other is a comedian. I have agreed with O'Reilly on many issues and on mothers I don't. My problem with O'Reilly is not his opinion but in the fact that he can never admit that he is wrong even with overwelming proof stacked against him. And lastly Bill Mahr is not a democrat he is a libertarian and if you ever took the time to watch his show you would see that he rips into democrats as weel.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    hippiemom wrote:
    My dad was a hard core conservative all his life, he supported Bush for a long time. You could tell he was weakening by '04, but he still voted for him. Katrina was what made him crack. Now I don't know if he's even a conservative anymore, he sounds more and more like me every time I talk to him. He's even starting to rethink a lot of Reagan policies that he'd always agreed with, because he's beginning to see how they led to what we have now.

    Bush may wind up being the best thing that ever happened for progressives in this country ;)

    I don't think my father will ever denounce Reagan. He and my mom have this glass shelved display case with family pictures in it and there is actually an autographed picture of Reagan in there, I shit you not. It's right next to my high school graduation photo and every chance I get I move it away from my picture but they keep putting it back.

    Seriously though, my father would never have even entertained the thought of voting for anyone besides a Republican. At the end of the month he is actually attending a meeting, with me, of the New Jersey Libertarian Party. He is just fed up with Bush's shit that he really doesn't want anything to do with him or anyone that supports him. If you ask him he will tell you that heis a Republican but refuses to support them until they get their shit straight.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul

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