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Nutters Ralph Nader & Howard Zinn Signed Petition to Reopen the 911 Investigation!

DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
edited May 2008 in A Moving Train
right here
Are THEY crazy fucking lunatics too?

I'd love to hear the opinion of the liberals on here who probably view either of these fellows as credible.

Don't Forget Michael J. Fox, either. ;)
The Questions the Signators Signed Approving: wrote:
Why were standard operating procedures for dealing with hijacked airliners not followed that day?
Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?
Why did the Secret Service allow Bush to complete his elementary school visit, apparently unconcerned about his safety or that of the schoolchildren?
Why hasn't a single person been fired, penalized, or reprimanded for the gross incompetence we witnessed that day?
Why haven't authorities in the U.S. and abroad published the results of multiple investigations into trading that strongly suggested foreknowledge of specific details of the 9/11 attacks, resulting in tens of millions of dollars of traceable gains?
Why has Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI translator who claims to have knowledge of advance warnings, been publicly silenced with a gag order requested by Attorney General Ashcroft and granted by a Bush-appointed judge?
How could Flight 77, which reportedly hit the Pentagon, have flown back towards Washington D.C. for 40 minutes without being detected by the FAA's radar or the even superior radar possessed by the US military?
How were the FBI and CIA able to release the names and photos of the alleged hijackers within hours, as well as to visit houses, restaurants, and flight schools they were known to frequent?
What happened to the over 20 documented warnings given our government by 14 foreign intelligence agencies or heads of state?
Why did the Bush administration cover up the fact that the head of the Pakistani intelligence agency was in Washington the week of 9/11 and reportedly had $100,000 wired to Mohamed Atta, considered the ringleader of the hijackers?
Why did the 911 Commission fail to address most of the questions posed by the families of the victims, in addition to almost all of the questions posed here?
Why was Philip Zelikow chosen to be the Executive Director of the ostensibly independent 911 Commission although he had co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice?

List of notable signators:
Virginia Deane Abernethy, Ph.D., anthropologist, author, Population Politics
Ed Asner, actor, activist
Marshall Auerback, international portfolio strategist for David W. Tice & Associates, Inc.
Catherine Austin Fitts, Asst. Secretary of Housing in the first Bush administration
Keidi Obi Awadu, aka The Conscious Rasta, talk show host, LIBRadio
Michael Badnarik, Libertarian candidate for President
Byron Belitsos, publisher, Origin Press, author Planetary Democracy
Philip J. Berg, Esquire, former deputy attorney general, Pennsylvania
Medea Benjamin, activist, author, co-founder, Global Exchange and Code Pink
Dennis Bernstein, investigative reporter, radio host of KPFA's Flashpoints
Steve Bhaerman aka Swami Beyondananda, author, political comedian
Brad Blanton, Ph.D., psychotherapist, author, Radical Honesty
Saniel Bonder, spiritual teacher and author, Great Relief
Dr. Robert Bowman, USAF Lt. Col. (Rtd.), founder, Institute for Space and Security Studies
John Buchanan, author, candidate for the Republican Party Presidential nomination, 2004
Gray Brechin, Ph.D., author, environmental historian, professor, UC Berkeley
Fred Burks, presidential interpreter for Bush, Clinton, Cheney, and Gore
Norma Carr-Rufino, Ph.D., author, professor of management, San Francisco State University
Angana Chatterji, Ph.D., scholar-activist and professor of anthropology
Paul Cienfuegos, co-founder, Democracy Unlimited of Humboldt County
David Cobb, attorney, national presidential candidate, US Green Party
John Cobb, Ph.D., theologian, co-author, For the Common Good
Ernest Callenbach, founder/editor, Film Quarterly, author, Ecotopia
Kevin Danaher, Ph.D., author, speaker, co-founder, Global Exchange
Stephen Dinan, author, Radical Spirit
Ronnie Dugger, journalist/author, co-founder, Alliance for Democracy
Daniel Ellsberg, author, Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers
Jodie Evans, co-founder, Code Pink
Richard Falk, Professor Emeritus of International Law, Princeton University
Michael Franti, musician, filmmaker, human rights worker
Janeane Garofalo, actress, comedienne, talk show host, Air America Radio
Jim Garrison, Ph.D., president, State of the World Forum, author, America as Empire
Bruce Gagnon, Chair, Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space
Ric Giardina, author, consultant, speaker, former Director of Trademarks and Brands for Intel
John Gray, Ph.D., #1 bestselling author, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus
Stan Goff, 25-year Army Special Ops veteran, author, Full Spectrum Disorder
Melvin Goodman, senior fellow, Center for International Policy, author, former Senior Analyst, CIA, professor, National War College
Morton Goulder, Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter
David Ray Griffin, Ph.D., theologian, author, New Pearl Harbor
Doris "Granny D" Haddock, campaign finance crusader, NH Democratic candidate for Senate
Thom Hartmann, radio host; author, Unequal Protection
Richie Havens, singer, songwriter, performer, artist
Paul Hawken, bestselling author, environmentalist, entrepreneur, founder of Smith & Hawken
Randy Hayes, founder, Rainforest Action Network, US National Director, Direction Conservation
Richard Heinberg, author, The Party's Over, core faculty, New College of California
Van Jones, executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights
Rob Kall, editor, OpEdNews.com, president, Futurehealth, Inc.
Georgia Kelly, executive director, Praxis Peace Institute
Sean Kelly, Ph.D., author, professor of philosophy and religion, CA Institute of Integral Studies
John Joseph Kennedy, Democratic Write-in Presidential Candidate for 2004
Mimi Kennedy, actress, Dharma and Greg, progressive activist
Faiz Khan, M.D., Triage Emergency Physician on 9/11, Assistant Imam
David Korten, author, When Corporations Rule the World
Frances Moore Lapp?, author, Diet for a Small Planet; founder, Small Planet Institute
Scott M. Legere, 25 year radio broadcaster as Scott Ledger, Tampa FL
Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor, TIKKUN Magazine, author, Healing Israel/Palestine
Michael Levine, bestselling author of Deep Cover, journalist, 25-year veteran of the DEA
Joanna Macy, Ph.D., eco-philosopher, author
Enver Masud, founder, The Wisdom Fund, author, The Truth About Islam
John McCarthy, former Special Forces Captain, president, Veterans Equal Rights Protection Advocacy
Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst, co-founder, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
Cynthia McKinney, five-term Congresswoman from Georgia
Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., author, professor, co-founder, Green Earth Foundation
Mark Crispin Miller, media critic, author, professor, New York University
Joseph W. Montaperto, New York City Fire Department
Leuren Moret, geoscientist, radiation specialist, environmental commissioner
Ralph Nader, Independent candidate for President
Craig Neal, author, co-founder, The Heartland Institute, former publisher, Utne Reader
Jeff Norman, executive director, Tour of Duty
Jenna Orkin, Esquire, World Trade Center Environmental Organization
Kelly Patricia O'Meara, investigative journalist, public relations
Michael Parenti, Ph.D., author, Superpatriotism and The Terrorism Trap
Edward L. Peck, former US Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq, former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism
Peter Phillips, Ph.D., professor, Sonoma State University, director, Project Censored
Henri Poole, Internet pioneer, board member, Free Software Foundation
Robert Rabbin, author, speaker, creator of TruthForPresident.org
Paul H. Ray, Ph.D., sociologist, author, The Cultural Creatives
John Renesch, business futurist, author, Getting to the Better Future
John Rensenbrink, professor emeritus, Bowdoin College, co-founder, US Green Party
John Robbins, author, founder, EarthSave International
William Rodriguez, 9/11 rescue effort hero, founder, Hispanic Victims Group
Neal Rogin, Emmy-award winning writer, performer, social observer
Allen Roland, Ph.D., psychotherapist, published author and peace activist
Rosemary Radford Ruether, professor of feminist theology, Graduate Theological Union
Michael Ruppert, publisher/editor, From The Wilderness, author, Crossing the Rubicon
Chris Sanders, founder, Sanders Research Associates
Karl W. B. Schwarz, President, CEO, Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC
Peter Dale Scott, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, author, Drugs, Oil, and War
Firefighter Kevin Shea, FDNY Hazmat Operations
Michelle Shocked, singer/songwriter, activist
Indira Singh, risk management and computer systems consultant
J. Michael Springmann, attorney, former Foreign Service Officer, US Department of State
Douglas Sturm, Ph.D., university professor emeritus, Bucknell University
Marjorie Hewit Suchocki, Ph.D., theologian, author
Chuck Turner, Boston City Council
James W. Walter Jr., venture investor, philanthropist, founder of Walden Three
Dan Whaley, E-commerce pioneer, founder of GetThere.com, acquired for $750M
Burns H. Weston, J.S.D., Professor of Law Emeritus, Director, Center for Human Rights, U-Iowa
Howard Zinn, professor, historian, author, A People's History of the United States
FAMILY MEMBERS OF 911 VICTIMS, WHO SIGNED:

Joanne Barbara, wife of FDNY Asst. Chief of Dept. Gerard Barbara
Gayle Barker, sister of William A. Karnes, WTC
Michele Bergsohn, wife of Alvin Bergsohn, Cantor Fitzgerald
Derrill Bodley, father of Deora Bodley, passenger on Flight 93
Kathryn C. Bowden, sister of Thomas H. Bowden, Jr. WTC1, 104th floor
Janet Calia, wife of Dominick Calia, Cantor Fitzgerald, WTC1
Maggie Cashman, wife of William Joseph Cashman, United Flight 93
Lynne Castrianno Galante, sister of Leonard Castrianno, 1WTC, 105th floor
Elza Chapa-McGowan, daughter of Rosemary Chapa, Pentagon
Bruce De Cell, father-in-law of Mark Petrocelli North Tower, 92nd floor
Ralph D'Esposito, father of Michael D'Esposito, WTC, 96th floor
Loisanne Diehl, Surviving Spouse, Michael D. Diehl, WTC2, 90th floor
Adina D. Eisenberg, sister of Eric Eisenberg, WTC
Jonathan M. Fisher, son of Dr. Gerald Paul "Geep" Fisher, Pentagon
Michael J. Fox, brother of Jeffrey L. Fox, Tower 2, 89th floor
Laurel A. Gay, sister of Peter A. Gay, AA Flight 11
Irene Golinsky, wife of Col. Ronald F. Golinski USA RET, Pentagon
Lori, Jerry, and Beatrice Guadagno, sister and parents of Richard Guadagno, Flight 93
Kristen Hall, daughter of fallen firefighter Thomas Kuveikis 9/11
Kurt D. Horning, father of Matthew D. Horning, WTC Tower One, 95th floor
Jennifer W. Hunt, wife of William C. Hunt, Euro Brokers
John Keating, son of Barbara Keating, passenger on AA Flight 11
L. Russell Keene II, father of Russ Keene III, WTC2, 89th floor, KBW
Peter Kousoulis, sister died in WTC
Paul & Barbara Kirwin, parents of Glenn Davis Kirwin, Cantor Fitzgerald 105th floor
Barbara Krukowski-Rastelli, mother of William E. Krukowski, NYC firefighter
Laura and Ira Lassman, parents of Nicholas C. Lassman, died in WTC, Tower One
Johnny Lee, husband of Lorraine Greene
Alicia LeGuillow, mother of Nestor A. Cintron III
Francine Levine, sister of Adam K. Ruhalter, who died on 9/11
Bob McIlvaine, father of Robert McIlvaine, WTC, Merrill Lynch
Mary McWilliams, mother of FF Martin E. McWilliams- Engine 22
Daryl J. Meehan, brother of Colleen Ann Barkow, WTC 1, 105th floor
Elvira P. Murphy, wife of Patrick Murphy, WTC 1
Natalee Pecorelli, sister of Thomas Pecorelli of Flight 11
James L Perry, M.D and Patricia J. Perry, parents of John W. Perry, Esq., NYPD Officer 9/11
David Potorti, brother of James Potorti, North Tower, WTC, Marsh & McLennan
Terry Kay Rockefeller, sister of Laura Rockefeller, North Tower, WTC
Grissel Rodriguez-Valentin, wife of Benito Valentin, WTC1, 94th floor
Alissa Rosenberg-Torres, widow of Luis Eduardo Torres, post-9/11 mother, writer
Elaine Saber, mother of Scott Saber
Julie Scarpitta, mother of Michelle Scarpitta, WTC Building 2, 84th floor
Paula Shapiro, mother of Eric Eisenberg, WTC2
Elizabeth Turner, wife of Simon Turner, lost on 11th September 2001
Adele Welty, mother of Firefighter Timothy Welty, FDNY, Squad 288
Joan W. Winton, mother of David Winton, WTC, South Tower, 89th floor
David Yancey, husband of Vicki Yancey, American Airlines Flight 77
Nissa Youngren, daughter of Robert G. LeBlanc, flight 175
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Easy, they are all lying and insane.

    Bush and Cheney are telling the truth.

    Nice hasty high security disposal. I wonder who picked out the all the discarded body parts in China?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Smellyman2Smellyman2 Posts: 689
    good. should've never been closed after the half assed dog and pony show.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    well that does it... howard zinn, ralph nader, and motherfucking michael j fox want a real investigation and signed that shit! well, fuck me.

    that means 9/11 MUST be an inside job coordinated by dick cheney...the same guy that shot a 90 year old man by accident instead of a 2 pound bird


    who doesnt want a insanely thorough investigation of the events that day? i know i do... that doesnt mean i think it was a vast conspiracy of the world military industrial complex
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    my2hands wrote:
    well that does it... howard zinn, ralph nader, and motherfucking michael j fox want a real investigation and signed that shit! well, fuck me.

    that means 9/11 MUST be an inside job coordinated by dick cheney...the same guy that shot a 90 year old man by accident instead of a 2 pound bird

    Obviously you didn't read the questions they signed for.

    They CLEARLY implicate that it was a deliberate action to "allow" this event.
    I say "allow" because the questions implicate that some action was actualy taken and that therefore it was not a passive event. It was DESIGNED.

    And once again, the military industrial complex has already PROVED to have been involved in "massive conspiracy", and yet you still disbelieve that they would do it again? :rolleyes:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Let me repeat myself since the tin foil hat is obstructing your vision. This does not prove anything. These people want the investigation reopened because the government is not telling us everything. The government had information prior to the attack that this would happen. There was plenty of clues. Now the government either a) totally dropped the fucking ball on this one (which I highly doubt) or b) they knowingly allowed the plan to unfold because they wanted to take advantage of the outcome. None of this, I mean none of this, even remotely means that the US GOVERNMENT PLANNED AND EXECUTED THE ATTACK!!!! These people signing this petition does not mean that they believe the US Government planned and executed. All it means that they believe the government is not providing the public all they know about what transpired. Plain and fucking simple.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    You ever stop to think that they want to look as incompetent as possible?

    One hunting accident and now Cheney is completely incapable and immediately disqualified?

    Hint.....he's not a professional hunter. He is a professional liar and manipulator. One of the best in the world.

    Most people realize that Incompetence is a rather convenient scapegoat. Mostly why saying "I don't recall" is such a famous and highly successful courtroom lie/tactic...works every time.

    Alberto Gonzales anyone?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    mammasan wrote:
    Let me repeat myself since the tin foil hat is obstructing your vision. This does not prove anything. These people want the investigation reopened because the government is not telling us everything. The government had information prior to the attack that this would happen. There was plenty of clues. Now the government either a) totally dropped the fucking ball on this one (which I highly doubt) or b) they knowingly allowed the plan to unfold because they wanted to take advantage of the outcome. None of this, I mean none of this, even remotely means that the US GOVERNMENT PLANNED AND EXECUTED THE ATTACK!!!! These people signing this petition does not mean that they believe the US Government planned and executed. All it means that they believe the government is not providing the public all they know about what transpired. Plain and fucking simple.

    Fill in the blanks... It's the question and suspicion of the decade.

    you can't be remotely serious...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    mammasan wrote:
    Let me repeat myself since the tin foil hat is obstructing your vision. This does not prove anything.

    Let me repeat the answer, since all the garbage coming out of your own mouth has clogged up your ears and brain, causing a negative feedback cycle of epic proportions:

    KNOWING OF, OBSTRUCTING INVESTIGATION IN TO, AND "ALLOWING" AN ATTACK, especialy when "allowing" involves creating elaborate war games that put fake blips on radar screens to deliberately confuse your own military, IS CALLED ACESSORY BEFORE THE FACT AND LEAVES YOU GUILTY OF CONSPIRACY TO MURDER, in this case, mass murder.

    :cool:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    the huinting this was a joke


    i have never thought of anyone in this administration as incompetant. i dont buy the cowboy georgie bullshit either. never have and never will




    there is no need to go to the lengths ths tthey did to invade two 3rd world countries and one just happens to be "american enemy #1" saddam hussein... shit, a fucking iraqi paper airplane with a firecracker taped to it would be enough to convince at least 1/3 americans to invade iraq... and do you really think they went through all that shit, the elaborate planning and insane pressure and insane risk if caught so they could invade afghansitan for a pipeline? what "they" stand to lose if one minor detail slips on something like this is unimaginable. one slip, one leak, and you would have the largest revolution in world history. the white house would be stormed and they would be burned at the stake, and i would bring the hotdogs...

    there is no need to go to the lengths of something like that. we are the worlds military superpower and "they" have it WAY too good to rock the boat with soemthing of this magnitude. it really is that simple to me.







    AND HERE IS THE BEST QUESTION OF THEM ALL THAT ABSOLUTELY DISPROVES ANY "INSIDE JOB" THEORY...

    IF 9/11 WAS AN "INSIDE" CONSPIRACY... AND "THEY" ARE ABLE TO COMMIT THE GREATEST CRIME IN HISTORY AND ARE ALL POWERFUL REACHING INTO THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF GOVENRMENT AND SHADOW CIRCLES... AND ONE OF THE MAJOR GOALS WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR DOMINATION OF MIDDLE EAST OIL VIA THE MILITARY... AND IRAQ WAS TARGET #1 ON THE RADAR... THEN HOW COME THE ALL POWERFUL "THEY" WERE NOT ABLE TO PLANT WMD'S IN IRAQ? HOW COME "THEY" WERE NOT ABLE TO "PLANT" EVIDENCE OF IRAQI INVOLVEMENT IN 9/11? HOW COME THIS ALMIGHTY AND POWERFUL GROUP OF CONSPIRATORS WAS NOT ABLE TO PLANT ANYTHING FOR JUSTIFICATION OF THE INVASION OF IRAQ? THAT WOULD BE A WALK IN THE PARK COMPARED TO WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO PULL OFF ON 9/11... THINK ABOUT IT
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    my2hands wrote:
    the huinting this was a joke


    i have never thought of anyone in this administration as incompetant. i dont buy the cowboy georgie bullshit either. never have and never will




    there is no need to go to the lengths ths tthey did to invade two 3rd world countries and one just happens to be "american enemy #1" saddam hussein... shit, a fucking iraqi paper airplane with a firecracker taped to it would be enough to convince at least 1/3 americans to invade iraq... and do you really think they went through all that shit, the elaborate planning and insane pressure and insane risk if caught so they could invade afghansitan for a pipeline? what "they" stand to lose if one minor detail slips on something like this is unimaginable. one slip, one leak, and you would have the largest revolution in world history. the white house would be stormed and they would be burned at the stake, and i would bring the hotdogs...

    there is no need to go to the lengths of something like that. we are the worlds military superpower and "they" have it WAY too good to rock the boat with soemthing of this magnitude. it really is that simple to me.







    AND HERE IS THE BEST QUESTION OF THEM ALL THAT ABSOLUTELY DISPROVES ANY "INSIDE JOB" THEORY...

    IF 9/11 WAS AN "INSIDE" CONSPIRACY... AND "THEY" ARE ABLE TO COMMIT THE GREATEST CRIME IN HISTORY AND ARE ALL POWERFUL REACHING INTO THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF GOVENRMENT AND SHADOW CIRCLES... AND ONE OF THE MAJOR GOALS WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR DOMINATION OF MIDDLE EAST OIL VIA THE MILITARY... AND IRAQ WAS TARGET #1 ON THE RADAR... THEN HOW COME THE ALL POWERFUL "THEY" WERE NOT ABLE TO PLANT WMD'S IN IRAQ? HOW COME "THEY" WERE NOT ABLE TO "PLANT" EVIDENCE OF IRAQI INVOLVEMENT IN 9/11? HOW COME THIS ALMIGHTY AND POWERFUL GROUP OF CONSPIRATORS WAS NOT ABLE TO PLANT ANYTHING FOR JUSTIFICATION OF THE INVASION OF IRAQ? THAT WOULD BE A WALK IN THE PARK COMPARED TO WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO PULL OFF ON 9/11... THINK ABOUT IT

    your best question sucks.
    See the other thread.
    Two words: SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPHS.

    And BTW, the point of 911 was not to do with oil nearly as much as it was with furthering a war economy (why do you think this country has been involved in some sort of war for most of the last 60 years?) and even more importantly, beginning the all America destroying process of ending civil liberty.

    911 will be used (if we don't stop them) as the basis for ALL policy in America for the next half century or more, and was a huge pretext for destroying our civil liberties and further enabling the military industrial complex.

    Don't you wonder why they switched the Patriot Act THE MORNING OF THE VOTE and didn't let any one read it? Go watch Washington You're Fired, listen to the congressman stand up and protest this very fact.

    911 is the pretext for turning America in to a Nazi style national socialist dictatorship, striping us of our 1st, 2nd, and 4th ammendment rights in particular, and providing infinite security to the top 1% while utterly destroying the middle class.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    your best question sucks.
    See the other thread.
    Two words: SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPHS.

    And BTW, the point of 911 was not to do with oil nearly as much as it was with furthering a war economy (why do you think this country has been involved in some sort of war for most of the last 60 years?) and even more importantly, beginning the all America destroying process of ending civil liberty.

    911 will be used (if we don't stop them) as the basis for ALL policy in America for the next half century or more, and was a huge pretext for destroying our civil liberties and further enabling the military industrial complex.

    Don't you wonder why they switched the Patriot Act THE MORNING OF THE VOTE and didn't let any one read it? Go watch Washington You're Fired, listen to the congressman stand up and protest this very fact.

    911 is the pretext for turning America in to a Nazi style national socialist dictatorship, striping us of our 1st, 2nd, and 4th ammendment rights in particular, and providing infinite security to the top 1% while utterly destroying the middle class.


    oh right, it was to enslave the american people :rolleyes:


    the same people planning to enslave the american people with the most amazing crime in world history couldnt plant some WMD's in Iraq? all they had to do was plant some WMD and it would be signed sealed and delivered. the only question would have been who is next?

    come one dude.
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    my2hands wrote:
    the huinting this was a joke


    i have never thought of anyone in this administration as incompetant. i dont buy the cowboy georgie bullshit either. never have and never will




    there is no need to go to the lengths ths tthey did to invade two 3rd world countries and one just happens to be "american enemy #1" saddam hussein... shit, a fucking iraqi paper airplane with a firecracker taped to it would be enough to convince at least 1/3 americans to invade iraq... and do you really think they went through all that shit, the elaborate planning and insane pressure and insane risk if caught so they could invade afghansitan for a pipeline? what "they" stand to lose if one minor detail slips on something like this is unimaginable. one slip, one leak, and you would have the largest revolution in world history. the white house would be stormed and they would be burned at the stake, and i would bring the hotdogs...

    there is no need to go to the lengths of something like that. we are the worlds military superpower and "they" have it WAY too good to rock the boat with soemthing of this magnitude. it really is that simple to me.


    AND HERE IS THE BEST QUESTION OF THEM ALL THAT ABSOLUTELY DISPROVES ANY "INSIDE JOB" THEORY...

    IF 9/11 WAS AN "INSIDE" CONSPIRACY... AND "THEY" ARE ABLE TO COMMIT THE GREATEST CRIME IN HISTORY AND ARE ALL POWERFUL REACHING INTO THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF GOVENRMENT AND SHADOW CIRCLES... AND ONE OF THE MAJOR GOALS WAS JUSTIFICATION FOR DOMINATION OF MIDDLE EAST OIL VIA THE MILITARY... AND IRAQ WAS TARGET #1 ON THE RADAR... THEN HOW COME THE ALL POWERFUL "THEY" WERE NOT ABLE TO PLANT WMD'S IN IRAQ? HOW COME "THEY" WERE NOT ABLE TO "PLANT" EVIDENCE OF IRAQI INVOLVEMENT IN 9/11? HOW COME THIS ALMIGHTY AND POWERFUL GROUP OF CONSPIRATORS WAS NOT ABLE TO PLANT ANYTHING FOR JUSTIFICATION OF THE INVASION OF IRAQ? THAT WOULD BE A WALK IN THE PARK COMPARED TO WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO PULL OFF ON 9/11... THINK ABOUT IT


    The first invasion required propaganda and strong emotional lies to convince people...remember the incubator babies story? it was hovering on 50/50 to go to war before that conspiracy hit piece was pounded mercilessly in the media.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bdZpSact8Q

    Believe it or not the majority of the US do not thirst for middle east war at the drop of a hat.

    If they found the WMD's then it's mission accomplished time to come home. Iraq has been disarmed. A sense of finality. i.e. "They did what they said they were going to do and now it's over". If they don't find them, then they gotta keep looking.... they don't want to create a sense of completion. It's all about keep looking for terrorists (and invisible weapons from Iran now)...keep fighting... gotta stay there doing something. they keep making up additional bullshit reasons as they go along to keep it all going and keep people guessing.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,224
    my2hands wrote:
    oh right, it was to enslave the american people :rolleyes:


    the same people planning to enslave the american people with the most amazing crime in world history couldnt plant some WMD's in Iraq? all they had to do was plant some WMD and it would be signed sealed and delivered. the only question would have been who is next?

    come one dude.

    In a way they've done so with their ALL SEING EYES. They can look, listen, threaten you with fear that you could be an enemy combatent and off to Gitmo for you. To never to be heard from again, it's possible. :(

    Not as easy as you may think, that WMD would have to appear to be an Iraqian weapon of some sort. Besides the UN and the world would want to inspect that weapon.

    Imagine if it was found out that weapon turned out to be American made?

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    g under p wrote:
    In a way they've done so with their ALL SEING EYES. They can look, listen, threaten you with fear that you could be an enemy combatent and off to Gitmo for you. To never to be heard from again, it's possible. :(

    Not as easy as you may think, that WMD would have to appear to be an Iraqian weapon of some sort. Besides the UN and the world would want to inspect that weapon.

    Imagine if it was found out that weapon turned out to be American made?

    Peace

    exactly.

    i was going to add that, but i figured just letting him think about the satellite photo angle would be enough for mental gears to start churning on overdrive.

    instead he just totally ignored the comment and came back with "Come one dude".

    He also seems to completely miss the actual point of Iraq.
    It was not, as Roland so well stated, to find WMDs and come home.

    It was to instill a permanent INSTABILITY in the region, thereby causing permanent US presence in the region, and furthering a military industrial complex that is making bankers billions and trillions a year.

    It also, as you said, is serving to undermine American liberty.

    The fact that My2Hands cant see that is what is ultimately the most disturbing aspect of this.
    Because MOST americans are just like him.

    :sigh:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    The light bulbs have to go off at some point...

    you would think...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    The light bulbs have to go off at some point...

    you would think...

    Maybe its the fluoride.

    Hahhaha.
    Speaking of which.
    You HAVE to watch this:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=naJUVBMc7bk&feature=related

    [i can't watch video at work, but i'm pretty sure that is it.]

    HAHAHAH ROFL.
    I nearly died when i heard that go out live a month or two ago.
    The kid was just fucking asking for it, with his absolute ignorance.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    For those still struggling.. This is the agenda (below). Memorize it, and when you have a question refer to it as the 10 (or 17) commandments of what were dealing with here. Read PNAC, it's as real as it gets. Then you will be on a path to understanding. All actions they create, spin, manipulate, desire etc...stem from it, It is their doctrine...their sacred divine word and being.

    1. They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
    2. They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
    3. They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
    4. They accept the notion that the ends justify the means—that hardball politics is a moral necessity.
    5. They express no opposition to the welfare state.
    6. They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
    7. They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
    8. They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
    9. They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
    10. They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill advised.
    11. They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
    12. They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
    13. Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
    14. 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
    15. They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists.)
    16. They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
    17. They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Maybe its the fluoride.

    Hahhaha.
    Speaking of which.
    You HAVE to watch this:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=naJUVBMc7bk&feature=related

    [i can't watch video at work, but i'm pretty sure that is it.]

    HAHAHAH ROFL.
    I nearly died when i heard that go out live a month or two ago.
    The kid was just fucking asking for it, with his absolute ignorance.

    It's a one second clip that essentially ends before it starts... the one comment is funny though.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It's a one second clip that essentially ends before it starts... the one comment is funny though.

    http://www.infowars.com/?p=1481

    hopefully there is a video there.
    :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    http://www.infowars.com/?p=1481

    hopefully there is a video there.
    :D


    lol it got pulled... I think I have enough to search it now though...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Here's an eye opener

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-_I0lcyYMo
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,224
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    exactly.

    i was going to add that, but i figured just letting him think about the satellite photo angle would be enough for mental gears to start churning on overdrive.

    instead he just totally ignored the comment and came back with "Come one dude".

    He also seems to completely miss the actual point of Iraq.
    It was not, as Roland so well stated, to find WMDs and come home.

    It was to instill a permanent INSTABILITY in the region, thereby causing permanent US presence in the region, and furthering a military industrial complex that is making bankers billions and trillions a year.

    It also, as you said, is serving to undermine American liberty.

    The fact that My2Hands cant see that is what is ultimately the most disturbing aspect of this.
    Because MOST americans are just like him.

    :sigh:

    I question everything and in 2002 I fully expected a plant of some kind in Iraq however, as events unfolded in the next year I grew wiser. I realized this wasn't the real point of attacking Iraq and the taking out of Saddem. A planted WMD would've been too easy and left the effect of 9/11 useless.

    With an atmosphere of fear so many more avenues of institutional change could be implemented for years to come. Remember that Terror Alert nonsense and when you repeat possible terriost attack enough people will and did believe it. This sort of reminded me of what the Nazi's did back in WWII in how they kept their people in fear and any dissent would be considered anti-Germany. I believe we had that same sentiment here shortly after 9/11, if you questioned our gov't you're anti-American.

    A weapon found in Iraq whether planted or not wouldn't have had the same continuing impact of turning up the fear factor here in America.

    We also intend on controlling this whole region by building permanent military US bases in Iraq. I believe at least 4 of them throughout Iraq and an US Embassy that could cost at least 1 billion dollars.
    Bush Asserts Right to Ignore Law Barring Funds for Permanent US Bases in Iraq
    The news comes as President Bush has declared he has the right to bypass a new law that prohibits the use of taxpayer money to establish permanent US bases in Iraq. The ban was passed as part of the new National Defense Authorization Act. Hours after signing the bill Monday, Bush issued a signing statement asserting his right to ignore the restriction that bars federal funding “to establish any military installation or base for the purpose of providing for the permanent stationing” of US forces or “to exercise United States control of the oil resources of Iraq.” Bush’s signing statement also asserted his right to ignore a measure that boosts protection for whistleblowers employed by companies with government contracts. And the statement also objects to the creation of an independent commission on contracting fraud and waste in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    New US Embassy in Baghdad: Size of Vatican City

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    According to Ralph, '9/11 would never have happened if he was President.' Got to love the ego.

    See the problem is, he will never be President. Never. Get it? Never.

    You know, I like some of what Ralph Nader says, but I'm sick and tired of him popping up every four years saying he's running for President when he does nothing to build a viable third party in the years between. If he's SERIOUS, why isn't he out there tirelessly stumping for non-Democrat/Republican candidates at State levels? If our two-party system is ever going to change, it's going to happen from the bottom up. It's not rocket science.

    It's like he is dangling candy on a stick in front of us. Close enough to see, but not close enough to touch. You're never going to taste it.
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    g under p wrote:
    I believe we had that same sentiment here shortly after 9/11, if you questioned our gov't you're anti-American.

    everything you said is bang on.
    The embassy is a fucking joke.
    a sick fucking joke.

    Your quote reminded me of this, and it wasn't pleasant:

    Bill O'Reilly
    41 seconds in

    "It is our duty as loyal americans to shut up once the fighting begins."

    "Once the war against Saddam Hussein begins, we expect every American to support our military. And if they can't do that, to shut up."

    WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?

    Screw the Olbermann thread.
    Seriously, who gives a fuck about a guy going over the top while making valid points.

    WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

    That is blatant fascist propaganda.
    I mean its fucking sick.

    I'd RATHER have the nazis out and out won the war, than this subliminal mindfuck bullshit.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    "It is our duty as loyal americans to shut up once the fighting begins."

    "Once the war against Saddam Hussein begins, we expect every American to support our military. And if they can't do that, to shut up."

    You really have to wonder where this idea got born and why it's allowed (even tolerated) to be promulgated with such vehemence. Especially so from close the the "source" so to speak as Oreilly is/aligns. This is a direct window into the inner circle mind set in my opinion. I don't see it as casual, or by chance.

    And the "whole with or against" polarization speech and "let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories"were something an adult would say to a nation of frightened 10 year olds. Harsh...very. Little windows of opportunity from which too look in and see what the emperor is wearing.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    "It is our duty as loyal americans to shut up once the fighting begins."

    "Once the war against Saddam Hussein begins, we expect every American to support our military. And if they can't do that, to shut up."

    You really have to wonder where this idea got born and why it's allowed (even tolerated) to be promulgated with such vehemence. Especially so from close the the "source" so to speak as Oreilly is/aligns. This is a direct window into the inner circle mind set in my opinion. I don't see it as casual, or by chance.

    And the "whole with or against" polarization speech and "let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories"were something an adult would say to a nation of frightened 10 year olds. Harsh...very. Little windows of opportunity from which too look in and see what the emperor is wearing.
    Limiting people's choices is a power play, designed to control things for specific purposes. Such limits, like in "you're either for or against us" are an illusion, plain and simple.

    We all have the power to look beyond that, and create from empowerment rather than limitation and control.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Sludge FactorySludge Factory Posts: 976
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

    It was to instill a permanent INSTABILITY in the region, thereby causing permanent US presence in the region, and furthering a military industrial complex that is making bankers billions and trillions a year.

    This is the key part. I mean, who do you think owns the politicians? (not you, but people in general) The big fucking bankers that run this country and if they aren't making money they are going to make it hell for those "in power".
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Pj_Gurl wrote:

    You know, I like some of what Ralph Nader says, but I'm sick and tired of him popping up every four years saying he's running for President when he does nothing to build a viable third party in the years between. If he's SERIOUS, why isn't he out there tirelessly stumping for non-Democrat/Republican candidates at State levels? If our two-party system is ever going to change, it's going to happen from the bottom up. It's not rocket science.


    ding ding ding

    get the lady a prize :D
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Sludge Factory wrote:
    This is the key part. I mean, who do you think owns the politicians? (not you, but people in general) The big fucking bankers that run this country and if they aren't making money they are going to make it hell for those "in power".


    Hit the nail square on the head with that one.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

    If they found the WMD's then it's mission accomplished time to come home. Iraq has been disarmed. A sense of finality. i.e. "They did what they said they were going to do and now it's over". If they don't find them, then they gotta keep looking....


    this is way off...

    americans have wanted out of iraq for years now and they openly stopped looking for WMD's years ago... so not finding WMD as an excuse to stay? come on dude. you 9/11 guys really stretch sometimes

    it is so obvious it is smacking your guys in the face...
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