I'm taking bets

Pacomc79 wrote:

different society. Why dosen't democracy work in the middle east?

Horrible events happen everywhere, reactionary government only takes more and more rights away from people. Crazy lunatics don't go away and you will still end up with horrific events in this very violent society. Anti gun people make some great points but the vast majority of people who own guns never commit horrific acts with them. I do not believe in taking basic liberties away from people simply because a few insane people happen to be out there. I'm not afraid of lunatics and nor do I own a gun, but laws do not prevent anything horriffic from happening and they only police the law abiding. Prohibition has never stopped anyone from doing anything they wanted to do. I'd wager the attitudes and more relaxed cultures of Europeans has more do to with thier lack of gigantic mass murders than lack of public weapon sales or know how.

Do we need a lot more smart and basic gun control...Absolutely but laws only police the willing and small town police will never be prepared to handle the kind of issue that this is spurned from.

You make some good points, and I'm not going to pretend this is a very black and white issue. But here is what I think.

I don't think you can blame the differences in society for the shootings in the US. I mean this guy was from Korea, with Korean parents, and Korean beliefs/morals. So technically he is not of the same society.
Also I think we can both agree that the US has no more lunatics than European countries.
We have the same TV shows, same movies, same video games.

So what's the difference? Gun control is the obvious one, but who knows if that is the cause?

All I know is this: If there is an apple tree whose apple you're not supposed to eat and there is another apple tree next to it but surrounded by a knee high white fence. I think the white fence, even though easily hopped over will make you think twice about getting the apple, while the other tree will likely get its apple taken.

My point is this, in Europe, we have guns, but the amount of guns in circulation is minimal compared to the US...and this is similar to our white fence. Since getting a gun is tougher, people have the time to think twice about what they are doing. So in the end, the situation is the same inside these people's heads, its just that, in my opinion, the US' gun lack of gun control laws just maximize the likeliness of a crazy person jumping from being pissed off but not going over the fence, to a crazy person killing 32 people.

Having said this, at this point, stricter laws would not make a great impact as an enormous black market for guns would emerge.

know1 wrote:

Why the comment about white males?

I was going to ask the same thing. It was strange to make this point and then use Cho Seung-Hui as some sort of evidence.

surferdude wrote:

Didn't you catch on yet, 'round here your the enemy. If you are a white male you oppress people and don't have the ability to empathize. You are everything wrong with America and the world.

I think Che was reffering to the string of school shooting where the majority of the shooters where white males.

soulsinging wrote:

gotcha. but i dont have the answers though. you cannot force good parenting and that is where this starts. colleges have gone overboard on diversity training, but you cannot prevent teens from forming cliques and dividing into the uncool and the cool. it's inevitable. there will always be downtrodden, the marginalized, the depressed and abused. it is sad, but unavoidable. what is needed is to make sure they have some sort of recourse besides grabbing a gun and getting even.

Yes, but it's the simple concept: it takes a community to raise a child. So, parents are initially responsible until the child's an adult. However, throughout those years, a mindset has to be in place within the community that would support any child and parent through those years. I've never read books on this although they exist. However, it seems that the simple concept, although possibly complex to implement, is what has to be the mindset of a community in order to raise children who are less likely to become mass murderers. Just a theory.

mammasan wrote:

I think Che was reffering to the string of school shooting where the majority of the shooters where white males.

If Che and others believe in the equality of sexes then he must believe that women are just as capable of this tyoe behavior. This is evidenced by the majority of child abuse being committed by the mother.

Then to choose an incident involving an asian and hold white males accountable just makes no sense.

soulsinging wrote:

i dont think that works in modern communities. america has become too isolated. i live in an apartment building in chicago. i've never once spoken to my neighbors, i dont think ive even seen most of them. we're too busy and now small talk from neighbors is an annoying waste of our time and slightly suspicious. in the suburbs, maybe you get a cursory wave in the morning, but by and large you do not talk to your neighbors. the american obsession with our house as our castle has turned our houses into our prisons. we're overworked and simply don't have time to deal with the people around us or get to know them.

the legal profession is a perfect example of the shift. used to be lawyers were respected members of society, upstanding, giving, just men. they were heavily involved in communities. now, they work 80 hours a week and don't have time for pleasantries.

communities are simply disintegrating. the more we are able to stay "connected" to people all over the world via email and phones and webcams, the more we ignore our next door neighbors. we are on call, on the job, 24/7 through blackberries. we are on the phone all the time with people we never see or trying to sort through bureaucracy. and in all this time consumed trying to stay "close" to people, we spend no time dealing with the people we see face to face every day.

Yes, but this isn't permanent.

Actually, I think I'm more connected with people I wouldn't have been since the internet. The community is redefined, and can include people one hasn't met in person.

Ok, here's an example, kindof quirky, but bear with me. Say, PJ would like to start this type of mindset for just 1 minute. During a concert Eddie would say, "Ok, every person in an odd-numbered seat turn to your left, and every person in an even numbered seat turn to your right. Say "HI" you can say your name if you want, but at least say HI. Next everyone in an odd numbered seat turn to your right, and everyone in an even numbered seat turn to your left. Say "HI", you can say your name if you want, but at least say HI. Ok, on with the concert . . . It may seem forced, big-brothering, etc, but ultimately, it's just a hello.

Not too hard, eh?

surferdude wrote:

If Che and others believe in the equality of sexes then he must believe that women are just as capable of this tyoe behavior. This is evidenced by the majority of child abuse being committed by the mother.

Then to choose an incident involving an asian and hold white males accountable just makes no sense.

From my understanding of what he wrote I don't think he was trying to make whites accountable for the actions of this one student or even insidting that white males are the only ones capable of such acts.