Why Aren't We Shocked?

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Comments

  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Go to wikipedia.com and type in domestic violence. It's one of the main issues in the article. It has links to various studies showing what I've said. Of course I've posted some of it here and in the other thread on this crap.
    Arrests during the year 2004:

    Murder
    Male - 8,840 (88.4%)
    Female - 1,158 (11.6%)

    Forcible rape
    Male - 18,406 (98.5%)
    Female - 287 (1.5%)

    Aggravated assault
    Male - 251,005 (79.3%)
    Female - 65,631 (20.7%)

    All violent offenses
    Male - 348,877 (82.2%)
    Female - 75,786 ((17.8%)


    http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/tost_4.html#4_l
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    PaperPlates wrote:
    The one woman is asked by a doctor how many men she's has sex with and she can't even guess. Quite the catch, whoever gets to marry her. ;)
    Um .... she's a fictional character.

    And what does this have to do with the topic anyway?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hippiemom wrote:
    Arrests during the year 2004:

    Murder
    Male - 8,840 (88.4%)
    Female - 1,158 (11.6%)

    Forcible rape
    Male - 18,406 (98.5%)
    Female - 287 (1.5%)

    Aggravated assault
    Male - 251,005 (79.3%)
    Female - 65,631 (20.7%)

    All violent offenses
    Male - 348,877 (82.2%)
    Female - 75,786 ((17.8%)


    http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/tost_4.html#4_l

    Yes arrests! Like I quoted, men don't report women slapping them. They don't report domestic violence as much as women. Studies have repeatedly shown this and the fact that women actually do hit men as often, if not more. I know from personal experience. I have never whitnessed a man hitting a woman, I saw a man break a woman's cell phone once. However, I have seen numerous times women hit men and feel justified in doing so. My mother as one example. She also goes on to say "all men are assholes" and things like that.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yes arrests! Like I quoted, men don't report women slapping them. They don't report domestic violence as much as women. Studies have repeatedly shown this and the fact that women actually do hit men as often, if not more. I know from personal experience. I have never whitnessed a man hitting a woman, I saw a man break a woman's cell phone once. However, I have seen numerous times women hit men and feel justified in doing so. My mother as one example. She also goes on to say "all men are assholes" and things like that.
    Ok, if that's your position ... that men are raped and assaulted by women at least as often as the other way around, but their fragile little egos won't allow them to report it :rolleyes: ... then perhaps we should stick with murder statistics, as there is no bias. I'm guessing the bodies of victims of either sex are equally as likely to be discovered.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    PaperPlates wrote:
    All I did was basically paraphrase the article. The mysoginst clothing it mentioned, the lewd openly sexual commercials, etc. Whats the problem? The way young girls dress and act these days, they are basically encouraged by media and hollywood to be sexually agressive.

    I've never been able to stomach more than 15 minutes of it at a time, but its pretty apparent that calling the main characters promiscuous would be being kind.

    That article complains of men having no problem chanting for a woman to show her breasts, but where's the condemnation for the women perfectly willing to comply?? While I agree that women should be cherished and loved, to think that anyone is less upset about a school shooting because they were "just girls" is idiotic.Including the author of this article. IMO>

    Btw, I've been informed a while back here on the board that the women of today curse too. Why are you so offended by the word slutty? Barring me actually calling you one, its just a word. Relax dear.

    Unless that shirt mentioned in the article is ironic, it would be sad to see a girl wearing that--because it would just be objectifying the girl. But there should not be anything wrong with a girl or woman embracing and celebrating her own sexuality. The problem is when she is objectified. There's a big difference and one that is not as commonly found when dealing with men's sexuality. Yes, slutty is a word, but you can't deny that words are powerful and indicative of our values. 'Just a word' is such a cop-out. Calling a female a slut is highly offensive because for a long time that was primarily used for women because there is a sexual double standard on women. Men have not had to suffer those labels like women have. Men are commonly celebrated when they are sexually active. Women are commonly punished, which is weird because who are the men having sex with, you know? Now I don't know if this is the way you roll, maybe you just have issues with sex in general--which wouldn't be surprising if you're an American.

    Sex and the City is a show primarily about four women's relationships with each other. Yes they have sex and relationships with men, just like many other people do. The show is all about them and the most beautiful city of New York. I don't think there has been a show quite as women-friendly and it's about time.

    Oh, and please don't patronize me with calling me 'dear'.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    i don't think there is any question that the sexualization of our culture has spun waaay out of control, and that it has had a negative impact on the way women are viewed and treated. Its absolutely unbelieveable. Its truly sickening. i think its important to point out, though, that women, are just as guilty for allowing it as are men. These advertisements, films, etc. are not created without ample supply of female volunteers, and many of the products advertised in this fashion are marketed and sold to women. Women are definitely exploited and objectified to a sick degree, but, they allow, and in fact encourage it. i fear it will only get worse. i see where the author comparing violent sex crimes committed against women to violent crimes against Blacks, for example, is good for making a point, although i must say it simply isn't the same. The motivations are simply not the same.
    As an aside, i've always found Abercrombie and Fitch advertising to be very disturbing. It borders on child porn really. i honestly do not see how they get away with it. i've made it a personal comittment of mine to NEVER patronize them under any circumstance (not that the personal complete boycott of one individual of very humble socio-economic status, such as myself, will make any difference). Its bad enough when corporations use sex to push there wares to adults, its quite another when they market to children in this manner. Sick.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    cornnifer wrote:
    i don't think there is any question that the sexualization of our culture has spun waaay out of control, and that it has had a negative impact on the way women are viewed and treated. Its absolutely unbelieveable. Its truly sickening. i think its important to point out, though, that women, are just as guilty for allowing it as are men. These advertisements, films, etc. are not created without ample supply of female volunteers, and many of the products advertised in this fashion are marketed and sold to women. Women are definitely exploited and objectified to a sick degree, but, they allow, and in fact encourage it. i fear it will only get worse. i see where the author comparing violent sex crimes committed against women to violent crimes against Blacks, for example, is good for making a point, although i must say it simply isn't the same. The motivations are simply not the same.
    As an aside, i've always found Abercrombie and Fitch advertising to be very disturbing. It borders on child porn really. i honestly do not see how they get away with it. i've made it a personal comittment of mine to NEVER patronize them under any circumstance (not that the personal complete boycott of one individual of very humble socio-economic status, such as myself, will make any difference). Its bad enough when corporations use sex to push there wares to adults, its quite another when they market to children in this manner. Sick.

    I totally agree on the A&F crap. And I wish more women wouldn't participate in that, but I wonder if because that is what the majority of advertising is--if younger women don't see the true nature? I don't know if I'm making sense, but if something is everywhere and you grow up with it, it can be hard to see that it doesn't have to be that way? Or that they're just being used?

    And also, it really shouldn't only have to fall on them. It would be great if there was an effort by the amazing amount of corporations to be more respectful, but who am I kidding.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • The Illinoisemakers
    The Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    VictoryGin wrote:
    Unless that shirt mentioned in the article is ironic, it would be sad to see a girl wearing that--because it would just be objectifying the girl. But there should not be anything wrong with a girl or woman embracing and celebrating her own sexuality. The problem is when she is objectified. There's a big difference and one that is not as commonly found when dealing with men's sexuality. Yes, slutty is a word, but you can't deny that words are powerful and indicative of our values. 'Just a word' is such a cop-out. Calling a female a slut is highly offensive because for a long time that was primarily used for women because there is a sexual double standard on women. Men have not had to suffer those labels like women have. Men are commonly celebrated when they are sexually active. Women are commonly punished, which is weird because who are the men having sex with, you know? Now I don't know if this is the way you roll, maybe you just have issues with sex in general--which wouldn't be surprising if you're an American.



    Sex and the City is a show primarily about four women's relationships with each other. Yes they have sex and relationships with men, just like many other people do. The show is all about them and the most beautiful city of New York. I don't think there has been a show quite as women-friendly and it's about time.

    Oh, and please don't patronize me with calling me 'dear'.

    I think Dave Chappelle said it best in one of his dvd standups. "you might not be a whore, but your wearing a whore's uniform."
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    VictoryGin wrote:
    Unless that shirt mentioned in the article is ironic, it would be sad to see a girl wearing that--because it would just be objectifying the girl. But there should not be anything wrong with a girl or woman embracing and celebrating her own sexuality. The problem is when she is objectified. There's a big difference and one that is not as commonly found when dealing with men's sexuality.

    what are you saying about this shirt then? is it embracing or celebrating sexuality or encouraging objectification? i see a line between celebrating and embracing sexuality, and flaunting it. i am all for equality, but i also think both sides need to meet. women dressing in things like tiny mini-skirts and shirts with the said text represent an extreme of sexual aggression similar to a guy at a bar being misgynistic and groping women. if men have to exercise restraint in their sexual behaviors, so do women. im not saying they need to wear burkhas in the kitchen, but to dress as provocatively as possible in an effort to "celebrate" their sexuality and then claim that it is wrong for men to view them sexually is patently ridiculous.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    soulsinging wrote:
    what are you saying about this shirt then? is it embracing or celebrating sexuality or encouraging objectification? i see a line between celebrating and embracing sexuality, and flaunting it. i am all for equality, but i also think both sides need to meet. women dressing in things like tiny mini-skirts and shirts with the said text represent an extreme of sexual aggression similar to a guy at a bar being misgynistic and groping women. if men have to exercise restraint in their sexual behaviors, so do women. im not saying they need to wear burkhas in the kitchen, but to dress as provocatively as possible in an effort to "celebrate" their sexuality and then claim that it is wrong for men to view them sexually is patently ridiculous.

    I already said that unless that shirt is ironic, it helps to objectify. The message is that breasts are the only thing of value.

    And really, women dressing in a certain way is not similar to a guy groping women. Women are not physically assaulting men by the way they dress.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    soulsinging wrote:
    women dressing in things like tiny mini-skirts and shirts with the said text represent an extreme of sexual aggression similar to a guy at a bar being misgynistic and groping women. if men have to exercise restraint in their sexual behaviors, so do women. im not saying they need to wear burkhas in the kitchen, but to dress as provocatively as possible in an effort to "celebrate" their sexuality and then claim that it is wrong for men to view them sexually is patently ridiculous.

    Add in the fact that said T-shirt is marketed primarily to teenagers, mix in a dollup of parents who not only allow their daughters to wear said t-shirt, but, give them money and a ride to the mall to obtain it, and you have a recipe for disaster... and over the counter morning after pills. ;)
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    soulsinging wrote:
    what are you saying about this shirt then? is it embracing or celebrating sexuality or encouraging objectification? i see a line between celebrating and embracing sexuality, and flaunting it. i am all for equality, but i also think both sides need to meet. women dressing in things like tiny mini-skirts and shirts with the said text represent an extreme of sexual aggression similar to a guy at a bar being misgynistic and groping women. if men have to exercise restraint in their sexual behaviors, so do women. im not saying they need to wear burkhas in the kitchen, but to dress as provocatively as possible in an effort to "celebrate" their sexuality and then claim that it is wrong for men to view them sexually is patently ridiculous.
    I hardly think you can compare a man groping women to a woman wearing revealing clothing. I don't like to see women dressed that way, but it's not the equivalent of a gross violation of your personal space. I agree with what VG said about this ... it's everywhere in our culture, kids are bombarded with it on television, on billboards, in magazines. I remember getting catalogs in the mail, sent directly to my daughters when they were in grade school, with what I thought were really outrageous outfits for little girls (or any girls, for that matter) to be wearing. My kids have a loud-mouthed feminist for a mother, so we'd talk about things in the culture and what the hidden messages were, but most kids don't have that and they just soak it all up without question.

    Girls are sent a message that they have to be sexy to attract male attention, and then their sexuality is used as an excuse to abuse them because they're being "slutty."
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hippiemom wrote:
    Ok, if that's your position ... that men are raped and assaulted by women at least as often as the other way around, but their fragile little egos won't allow them to report it :rolleyes: ... then perhaps we should stick with murder statistics, as there is no bias. I'm guessing the bodies of victims of either sex are equally as likely to be discovered.

    It's still only showing arrests. Which actually shows the bias quite well.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    The Illinoisemakers wrote:
    I think Dave Chappelle said it best in one of his dvd standups. "you might not be a whore, but your wearing a whore's uniform."

    I just finished watching it for the 5th or 6th time. Awesome standup routine.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    chiefojibwa wrote:
    men have higher premiums because they cause more accidents. simple.

    Bullshit, I've never been in an accident. That is a generalization, I thought that was supposed to be bad. Or is it only bad when it's not white men?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • butters
    butters Posts: 63
    There wouldn't have been any outrage either if it was the boys that were shot instead of the girls. So don't try to say the lack of 'sexist murder' outcries means anything.

    "Women an children first"
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    VictoryGin wrote:
    I already said that unless that shirt is ironic, it helps to objectify. The message is that breasts are the only thing of value.

    And really, women dressing in a certain way is not similar to a guy groping women. Women are not physically assaulting men by the way they dress.

    No, but I was physically assaulted by a woman because of my age. I was at a bar and a woman, probably aged 40+ just wouldn't leave me alone. She kept grabbing at my crotch.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    VictoryGin wrote:
    And also, it really shouldn't only have to fall on them. It would be great if there was an effort by the amazing amount of corporations to be more respectful, but who am I kidding.
    Corporations will show respect where the consumer demands respect. The auto industry is an example of this. The fashion industry shows no respect because the consumer does not demand it. The consumer has shown it doesn't want to be respected by purchasing shirts with slogans such as "Who needs a brain when you've got these".

    In public if I saw woman with that shirt on I would think "there's a person not deserving of my respect', much like I think when I see a guy wearing a shirt that says "show me your tits". Everyone has the freedom to where what they choose and celebrate whatever they want, and I'm free to pass judgement and show them no respect, as long as I don't cross the line and break the law.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Bullshit, I've never been in an accident. That is a generalization, I thought that was supposed to be bad. Or is it only bad when it's not white men?
    Wow, there's some unassailable logic! Ahnimus has never been in an accident, therefore men do not get in more accidents than women.

    *slaps forehead*

    Why didn't I see this before?!
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hippiemom wrote:
    Wow, there's some unassailable logic! Ahnimus has never been in an accident, therefore men do not get in more accidents than women.

    *slaps forehead*

    Why didn't I see this before?!

    No, it means I don't get into accidents more than another person. You are generalizing.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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