House passes resolution criticizing Bush's Iraq policy
SuzannePjam
Posts: 411
Too bad it's just symbolic. Now if we could just get our troops out of there and home safely...
Iraq resolution passes House
Senate to consider similar measure Saturday
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17179124/
WASHINGTON - The Democratic-controlled House issued a symbolic rejection of President Bush's plan to deploy more troops to Iraq on Friday, opening an epic confrontation between Congress and commander in chief over an unpopular war that has taken the lives of more than 3,100 U.S. troops.
The vote on the nonbinding measure was 246-182, with 6 not voting.
"The stakes in Iraq are too high to recycle proposals that have little prospect for success," said Speaker Nancy Pelosi, leader of Democrats who gained power last fall in elections framed by public opposition to the war.
"The passage of this legislation will signal a change in direction in Iraq that will end the fighting and bring our troops home," she vowed.
Bush's Republican allies said repeatedly the measure would lead to attempts to cut off funds for the troops. Outnumbered, they turned to Rep. Sam Johnson of Texas to close their case - and the former Vietnam prisoner of war stepped to the microphone as lawmakers in both parties rose to applaud his heroism.
"Now it's time to stand up for my friends who did not make it home, and for those who fought and died in Iraq already," he said. "We must not cut funding for our troops. We must stick by them," he added, snapping off a salute as he completed his remarks to yet another ovation.
Bush made no comment on the developments, and his spokesman said the commander in chief was too busy to watch the proceedings on television.
After a secure videoconference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, Bush said the Iraqis were reporting progress: providing troops to fight alongside Americans, making sure that no ethnic or religious factions are ignored in the security operations, providing $10 billion toward reconstruction and working on an oil revenue-sharing law.
The developments in the House marked the first vote of the new Congress on the war. Roughly 400 of 434 lawmakers spoke during four days of a dignified debate - an unusual amount of time devoted to a single measure.
Moving quickly, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has called a test vote for Saturday on an identical measure, and several presidential contenders in both parties rearranged their weekend campaign schedules to be present.
Republicans said in advance they would deny Democrats the 60 votes they need to advance the resolution, adding they would insist on equal treatment for a GOP-drafted alternative that opposes any reduction in funds for the troops.
The developments unfolded as a new poll showed more than half those surveyed view the war as a hopeless cause.
Iraq resolution passes House
Senate to consider similar measure Saturday
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17179124/
WASHINGTON - The Democratic-controlled House issued a symbolic rejection of President Bush's plan to deploy more troops to Iraq on Friday, opening an epic confrontation between Congress and commander in chief over an unpopular war that has taken the lives of more than 3,100 U.S. troops.
The vote on the nonbinding measure was 246-182, with 6 not voting.
"The stakes in Iraq are too high to recycle proposals that have little prospect for success," said Speaker Nancy Pelosi, leader of Democrats who gained power last fall in elections framed by public opposition to the war.
"The passage of this legislation will signal a change in direction in Iraq that will end the fighting and bring our troops home," she vowed.
Bush's Republican allies said repeatedly the measure would lead to attempts to cut off funds for the troops. Outnumbered, they turned to Rep. Sam Johnson of Texas to close their case - and the former Vietnam prisoner of war stepped to the microphone as lawmakers in both parties rose to applaud his heroism.
"Now it's time to stand up for my friends who did not make it home, and for those who fought and died in Iraq already," he said. "We must not cut funding for our troops. We must stick by them," he added, snapping off a salute as he completed his remarks to yet another ovation.
Bush made no comment on the developments, and his spokesman said the commander in chief was too busy to watch the proceedings on television.
After a secure videoconference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, Bush said the Iraqis were reporting progress: providing troops to fight alongside Americans, making sure that no ethnic or religious factions are ignored in the security operations, providing $10 billion toward reconstruction and working on an oil revenue-sharing law.
The developments in the House marked the first vote of the new Congress on the war. Roughly 400 of 434 lawmakers spoke during four days of a dignified debate - an unusual amount of time devoted to a single measure.
Moving quickly, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has called a test vote for Saturday on an identical measure, and several presidential contenders in both parties rearranged their weekend campaign schedules to be present.
Republicans said in advance they would deny Democrats the 60 votes they need to advance the resolution, adding they would insist on equal treatment for a GOP-drafted alternative that opposes any reduction in funds for the troops.
The developments unfolded as a new poll showed more than half those surveyed view the war as a hopeless cause.
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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This is the begining of the end for America's reputation abroad... This is our generation's Vietnam now, except about 50,000 died in that war - and we've only lost about 3,000.
As many of you will point out that much of the world despised America for what we've done in Iraq - I have to point out that many people agreed with our actions, incuding Iraqi's.
Now, even though we pull out of Iraq - the America bashing will only intensify as a moral victory has been won everywhere from Al Qaeda hideouts to the offices of the New York TImes. So the people who hate us will hate us even more. And the people who were behind us now feel betrayed.0 -
Only?NCfan wrote:This is the begining of the end for America's reputation abroad... This is our generation's Vietnam now, except about 50,000 died in that war - and we've only lost about 3,000.
As many of you will point out that much of the world despised America for what we've done in Iraq - I have to point out that many people agreed with our actions, incuding Iraqi's.
Now, even though we pull out of Iraq - the America bashing will only intensify as a moral victory has been won everywhere from Al Qaeda hideouts to the offices of the New York TImes. So the people who hate us will hate us even more. And the people who were behind us now feel betrayed.
Yeah, many Iraqis agreed with your actions. It's true. Is it the majority, though? What exactly is 'many'?
We on the opposing side don't need another 'moral victory'- we've already had one of these when our doom and gloom predictions were proved right. I'm pretty sure the minds on whether they hate you or not have been made up already- I doubt any withdrawal will have an effect on that.Binary solo..0000001000001111000011100 -
NCfan wrote:This is the begining of the end for America's reputation abroad... This is our generation's Vietnam now, except about 50,000 died in that war - and we've only lost about 3,000.
As many of you will point out that much of the world despised America for what we've done in Iraq - I have to point out that many people agreed with our actions, incuding Iraqi's.
Now, even though we pull out of Iraq - the America bashing will only intensify as a moral victory has been won everywhere from Al Qaeda hideouts to the offices of the New York TImes. So the people who hate us will hate us even more. And the people who were behind us now feel betrayed.
Umm... we've lost ONLY 3,000? So we should keep our troops there until we hit the jackpot number of 50,000 so it really can be compared to Vietnam? It's not about the numbers of soldiers lost, it's about a bad policy and no exit strategy. I believe that's why people compare it to Vietnam.
I don't think many people have "agreed" with our actions in Iraq, including the Iraqi people themselves. Most of them want us out of Iraq. And our reputation is horrible in the European nations. Even the U.K. is pulling out of Iraq.
Al Qaeda has always hated us. Unfortunately, George W.'s actions have mushroomed the number of people who hate us. And if you want to talk about feeling betrayed, how about the misleading of the American people into a war wanted by Cheney and W.?"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello0 -
The bill was pointless only symbolic. We will be in iraq untill the job is done and the Shiite radicals quit.0
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I think this is a good thing...
this is the sort of debate and discussion needed before this effort ever took place, sadly, 9/11 was used to push down the throats of those who opposed here and throughout the world...
Iraq is broken, and we are not the ones to fix it, the Iraqi's and those in the region will fix it...and we may not like how it looks, but that's too bad...it's broken beyond our ability to repair it...0 -
The bottom line is this venture in Iraq is a performance-based issue. If we were succeeding, Democrats and anit-war citizens would be praising it as hard as they could - or at least they would shut the fuck up...
Becuase we are not succeeding, the argument that what we are doing there is wrong - gains traction and holds water for many. If we were succeeding, the argument would be weak and many wouldn't buy into it.
You guys need to understand that opinions are arbitrary and change constantly. All of this mess if George W Bush's fault. I agree 100%. But it's not his fault becuase what we're doing is wrong. It's his fault becuase he is not doing it properly.
Most Iraqi's want us out of Iraq huh? Who gives a shit, seriously... Most Iraqi's wanted us there right after we kicked Saddam's ass out of power.0 -
inmytree wrote:I think this is a good thing...
this is the sort of debate and discussion needed before this effort ever took place, sadly, 9/11 was used to push down the throats of those who opposed here and throughout the world...
Iraq is broken, and we are not the ones to fix it, the Iraqi's and those in the region will fix it...and we may not like how it looks, but that's too bad...it's broken beyond our ability to repair it...
Sure, just like they are fixing Palestine right??? Maybe some of us hold the opion that the safety of the United States is in jeopardy if we just let them "fix" it how they see fit.0 -
NCfan wrote:Sure, just like they are fixing Palestine right??? Maybe some of us hold the opion that the safety of the United States is in jeopardy if we just let them "fix" it how they see fit.
so lets protect our country...lets inspect cargo ships, lets clamp down on the borders...lets put the money spent on this war into real intelligence gathering...lets stop pissing off the world and start talking to others, rather that telling others...
let me ask you this, if you knew the big bully was going to get jumped after school, would you do anything or let it happen and think "they had it coming"...?
or, if you knew the nice, helpful, respectful kid was going to be jump by some dicks, would you do anything to help stop it...?
my point is this, if we start respect other countries, they would be more apt to help fight "terror" (which is a whole other story, I mean, how do you fight an abstract concept, anyhoo)...0 -
Hinny wrote:Only?
Yeah, many Iraqis agreed with your actions. It's true. Is it the majority, though? What exactly is 'many'?
We on the opposing side don't need another 'moral victory'- we've already had one of these when our doom and gloom predictions were proved right. I'm pretty sure the minds on whether they hate you or not have been made up already- I doubt any withdrawal will have an effect on that.
Yeah, that's right ONLY about 3,000. See we're talking about war here. And for a war, 3,000 casualties is not very many.
Please don't turn this into me not caring about indivudal lives. I'm simply pointing out the obvious...
The fact that you can't agree with it says more about you than me.0 -
NCfan wrote:This is the begining of the end for America's reputation abroad... This is our generation's Vietnam now, except about 50,000 died in that war - and we've only lost about 3,000.
As many of you will point out that much of the world despised America for what we've done in Iraq - I have to point out that many people agreed with our actions, incuding Iraqi's.
Now, even though we pull out of Iraq - the America bashing will only intensify as a moral victory has been won everywhere from Al Qaeda hideouts to the offices of the New York TImes. So the people who hate us will hate us even more. And the people who were behind us now feel betrayed.
The beginning of the end was the re-election of Bush.. Our ignorant response the tragedy of September 11th was understanable - we were in shock and happend to have incredibly weak leadership at the time. The fact that hatred grew so deeply leading to Bush's reelection is a testimony to the mentality of the Average American... We needed a swift kick in the ass.
Any hatred toward us is understandable - the only way to change that is become better. that wont happen unless we are willing to see ourselves realistically.0 -
NCfan wrote:Yeah, that's right ONLY about 3,000. See we're talking about war here. And for a war, 3,000 casualties is not very many.
Please don't turn this into me not caring about indivudal lives. I'm simply pointing out the obvious...
The fact that you can't agree with it says more about you than me.
3100 DEAD! 23530 casualties0 -
Abuskedti wrote:The beginning of the end was the re-election of Bush.. Our ignorant response the tragedy of September 11th was understanable - we were in shock and happend to have incredibly weak leadership at the time. The fact that hatred grew so deeply leading to Bush's reelection is a testimony to the mentality of the Average American... We needed a swift kick in the ass.
Any hatred toward us is understandable - the only way to change that is become better. that wont happen unless we are willing to see ourselves realistically.
Who is the "Average American?"
And, what were you referring to when you said "We needed a swift kick in the ass?"
What do you mean by "seeing ourselves realistically?"
I need a little more info before I can reply."Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-080 -
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-080 -
ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:Who is the "Average American?"
And, what were you referring to when you said "We needed a swift kick in the ass?"
What do you mean by "seeing ourselves realistically?"
I need a little more info before I can reply.
The Average American - as tallied in a pretty significant sample in the presidential election of 2004... Gleeful over the military masacre of Iraqis - in some large part as revenge for what Middle Easterners did to us on September 11th
See our selves for what we are - our culture - our media and many people on the street refuse to look at what we have done through the eyes of the other side - We hold as an absolute that if we took an action it must have been either wise or at worst - with great intensions... Neither of those were true as we invaded Iraq0 -
Abuskedti wrote:The Average American - as tallied in a pretty significant sample in the presidential election of 2004... Gleeful over the military masacre of Iraqis - in some large part as revenge for what Middle Easterners did to us on September 11th
See our selves for what we are - our culture - our media and many people on the street refuse to look at what we have done through the eyes of the other side - We hold as an absolute that if we took an action it must have been either wise or at worst - with great intensions... Neither of those were true as we invaded Iraq
Well, everyone has their opinion.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-080 -
You guys needed a resolution passed to "officially" critize Bush's policy....my oh my really....like the entire world didn't know about this critiscm...if the Democrats really want to make a change...I suggest fucking doing something about and stop dicking around with symbolic and long strung messages to say "we officially do not agree with your plan Mr. President"...what a joke...at least there is debate but to change things will take more than this....0
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ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:Who is the "Average American?"
And, what were you referring to when you said "We needed a swift kick in the ass?"
What do you mean by "seeing ourselves realistically?"
I need a little more info before I can reply.
maybe he should just kick himself in the ass. i, for one, didn't vote for Bush or a totally unelectable candidate. i think everyone who either a) voted for George Bush, or
Didn't vote, or C) Voted for someone who couldn't beat the republicans can kick themselves in the ass. 0 -
We do have a constitution we occassionaly have to follow. Congress does not have the power to directly order troops home. Only the President can. All Congress can do is withold money making sure our men who are their have less ability to defend themselves...Rockin'InCanada wrote:You guys needed a resolution passed to "officially" critize Bush's policy....my oh my really....like the entire world didn't know about this critiscm...if the Democrats really want to make a change...I suggest fucking doing something about and stop dicking around with symbolic and long strung messages to say "we officially do not agree with your plan Mr. President"...what a joke...at least there is debate but to change things will take more than this....0 -
Although I am a Democrat, I think what the Dems did today will fuck them in 08. Sending up the white flag by passing non-binding surrender resolutions only emboldens our adversaries. The Dems ought to spend their time finding themselves a candidate in 08 who can win, and then, actually have the ability to withdraw the troops. Id bet when push comes to shove any democrat who bullshits his way into office by promising to bring the troops home will find he or she just cant...Its too complex now.0
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