abortion / animal rights / death penalty / etc.

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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    rldriver2 wrote:
    It's not an egg or sperm that gets aborted. Ole Spermy gets there, fertilizes an egg and indeed, "shazam" a human imo.
    its magic....woo hooo.....I love magic..
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    You could always look at it differently.

    They aren't killing the fetus, they are simply disconnecting it from their body.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Foxwell
    Foxwell Posts: 142
    Regarding the death penalty, I'm against it because it does far more to denigrate our society and does very little to up-lift it: it doesn't prevent further atrocities, we sometimes execute the wrong guy, and the phrase "state-sponsored killing" sends chills down my spine.

    Animal rights: I'll admit my stance on this issue is more emotionally based than logically based. My pro-animal rights lifestyle, including vegetarianism, has its roots in my childhood but was crystallized on my one-and only- hunting trip.

    We went hunting for wild boar (truly ugly creatures) that were over-populating an island. They deserved to die: They were ugly and there were too many of them. ;)

    Well, needless to say, the killing spree didn't go well. I shot a young boar in the hind quarters and was treated to three or four minutes of witnessing this creature writhe and screech in pain until one of my hunting partners could put the pig out of its misery. It may have been an emotional decision, but I concluded that if I had such a difficult time killing a hideous creature that was going to be killed anyway, I would be a coward to pawn off the gruesome task of slaughtering cute cows onto McDonald's.

    Abortion: I take my hat off to the anti-abortion group for choosing the moniker "pro-life". Their name itself makes those of us who disagree with them seem like we're "pro-death", which of course I'm not. I am pro-choice for many of the reasons already and eloquently stated on this thread.

    Having said that, I still contend that the abortion debate is much ado about a symptom and ignores the disease: the disease being unwanted pregnancies. I wish we would have more discussions about how we could reduce those. If we could minimize unwanted pregnancies, I have a feeling we could also minimize abortions. It's just a hunch.

    Finally, two humorous anecdotes/observations about abortion:

    1. I don't know if this story is true. I hope it is. A kid in Missouri was busted for under-age drinking (he was just six months shy of his twenty-first birthday). He went to court and argued that life begins at conception; therefore, he was already past the legal drinking age.

    2. I once saw a flier for a "pro-life BBQ". I didn't attend, but I had the distinct feeling they weren't going to be cooking veggie burgers. I still wonder if the irony of a pro-life BBQ was completely lost on those who organized the event.
    "In the depths of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus

    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill

    "Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
  • Derrick
    Derrick Posts: 475
    gue_barium wrote:
    Derrick, go fuck yourself.

    ?

    I'm curious as to what warranted this. I hadn't said a thing to you. Or are you just looking for a random ban?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Foxwell,

    You can always use the logic that we share 99% of our genome with most other species on the planet. And that our brains are similar in most ways to animals. There is no measure or method of detecting consciousness, which is how we feel, so it's possible that being like an animal, is very much like being like a human (animal). You wouldn't kill another human, so why would you kill a different type of animal?

    That's the logic Neuroscientist Christoph Koch uses to explain his vegitarianism. I'm an omnivore though, so I don't use that logic, but I see nothing wrong with it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    rldriver2 wrote:
    Why do hippy liberals ;-) tend to be about animal rights and anti death penalty scenes out of respect for life and it's quality but at the same time support abortion rights with respect for choice over life? Exclude extenuating circumstances that involve rape, incest, and the mother's life. Why does the concern for the freedom to be alive and well not extend to something as innocent and pure as a newly conceived life?
    I am opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, the primary one being the state of our justice system. There is no equality as to who is charged with a death penalty offense (you are much more likely to be charged if you are a minority, or if the victim is white), no equality as to who is convicted and sentenced (again, a death penalty conviction is much more likely if you're a minority), it's based on wealth (there are no persons of means on death row anywhere in this country), it varies widely in how swiftly it's carried out (most death row inmates die of natural causes), it is not a deterrent, it's outrageously expensive, and there's no possible remedy for error. And of course, it makes murderers of us as well.

    I'm opposed to cruelty to animals because I think it is wrong to harm sentient beings, and it is obvious to me that animals are sentient beings.

    I am pro-choice to the same extent. Once it is biologically possible for a fetus to become a sentient being (somewhere between 20-28 weeks gestation, I'd go for 20 weeks to be on the safe side), I am opposed to abortion unless it's to save the mother's life, or if the fetus has a condition that would result in it's death soon after birth anyway.

    I don't make any divisions between human life and other life. I don't think there's anything particularly sacred about the human animal. We should not harm creatures that are capable of experiencing pain and fear, whatever species they may be.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You could always look at it differently.

    They aren't killing the fetus, they are simply disconnecting it from their body.

    Thank you. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift

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