Answers to outlaw's silly questions...
Comments
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Its Evolution Baby wrote:Thats because the Israel Palestine conflict is the number one concern for Americans...
Wait it isn't??????
But I'm sure you know that.0 -
cornnifer wrote:i wasn't whining. i did get on with it. All i got from you is some nonsense about it being silly. All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.
crap response?
So being against the neo-con ideology is anti-american? fire up your logic circuits and think that scenario through for a spell...
You have thought about this topic before right?
There's been dozens upon dozens of discussions on here before on why it's not anti-semitic to oppose Israel's extreme right policies.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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cornnifer wrote:i doubt it. Whenever someones mentions that *gasp* people should vote for who they want, you launch into some rant about how this is a discussion board , blah, blah, and no one will answer your dumb questions. i answered them. Now vote for who you want to. i'll do the same.0
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NMyTree wrote:I just love the ....."Everything is anti-semitism when you disagree with, call for accountability/responsibility of .......or criticize anything Israel/Jewish related " .......crowd.
Infinitely entertaining.
100% AGREED... I enjoy using names like Chomsky and Zinn out there when people throw the A/S card out at me.0 -
cornnifer wrote:i wasn't whining. i did get on with it. All i got from you is some nonsense about it being silly. All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.
Yeah, that's what happens when you make a comment which pigeon-holes anyone who criticizes Israel as "Antisemitic".
As if you didn't expect that to happen:rolleyes:
Now you're whining about what questions you posed were addressed and the one's that were not.
Would I take a page from your own book and say that maybe, just maybe.....no one else wants to respond to ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical questions? No I won't say that.
I'm not going to take it upon myself to speak for everyone else, here.
This is not elementry school, this is not high school and neither is it a popularity contest. And I'm not 12 years old and interested in being in anyone's " clique ".0 -
_outlaw wrote:It's a major concern for the Arab nations, who we're deeply involved with. We also show blind support towards Israel and give them billions of dollars of aid, involving ourselves in the conflict.
But I'm sure you know that.
True. Good points.
Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.
Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.10/31/2000 (****)
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Its Evolution Baby wrote:Issue 1 Israel: Obama publicly supports our main Allies agenda. However he has also has pledged to bring resolution to the dispute and has met with the Palestinian President already. I don't care that he refuses to meet with Hamas as they engage in tourist like activities. Once they cut that shit out and are strictly a political party then I expect him to include them on the discussions. McCain will not even talk about or acknowledge Palestine. So there is a big difference there.
Obama publicly supports our main Allies agenda: actually, it's much more than this. Obama has gone the step no president, including Bush, has gone before- giving ALL of Jerusalem to Israel. Obama has not once mentioned the occupation over Gaza and the West Bank. Obama has not once mentioned the Palestinians' suffering as a result of the occupation from the Israelis, but actually had the balls to blame the Palestinians' suffering on themselves! seriously, that alone makes me want to throw up.
And your comment about Hamas engaging in terrorist-like activities is laughable because you exclude the fact that Israel engages in even worse terrorist-like activities. Hamas is the democratically elected government of Palestine. They, NOT Fatah and Abbas, represent the views of most Palestinians. They are the ones we must talk to. Obama's plan on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is absolutely the worst in any president's history thus yet. McCain atleast said that we have to talk to Hamas. Granted, he did take it back, but atleast he even said it.Issue 2 Iran: I've been over this so many times. Of course war should be kept on the table when you are negotiating with someone when it involves missile development. Why would Iran have any reason to listen to Obama if we say right off the bat that we will not go to War with you?He is not saying let's go to War. He's saying if there are no concessions from Iran we may end up in some sort of conflict. And no they are not a threat to the US but to our main Ally Israel.Issue 3 Condi, Patriot Act, FISA: Bush appointed her not Obama. I have no problem him confirming her candidacy as she was more then qualified for the position even if I disagree with her 100%.FISA I disagreed with him on and made that clear, but I respected his reasons he gave for his vote. I still disagreed with him on that one though. But no candidate is perfect.Issue 4 Blank Checks for Iraq: Again you leave out that he was the first senator to introduce a bill for a mandatory pull out date for Iraq.Or that he was against the war from the beginning.Or that he has pledged to get the troops home in 16 months and has not wavered.Him voting to keep the troops properly funded does not bother me. Especially when he is running for president and there are a lot of easily manipulated people out there who would look at a vote against funding for Troops as an Anti-Patriot.0 -
Its Evolution Baby wrote:Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.0
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Its Evolution Baby wrote:True. Good points.
Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.
Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.
The Israel conflict is very much intertwined with Iran, Iraq and this administrations 'War On Terrorism".
Furthermore our Economy, Health Care, Education, Gas Prices are also affected to some degree when this administration gives billions of dollars to Israel and spending a gazillion dollars on a phoney, trumped-up war.
Money that should be going to all of the above mentioned programs/issues/infrastructure, is being wasted.
Not to mention the still unaccounted for 8 billion dollars that was given to Blackwater amd the unaccounted for 9 billion dollars that was supposed build a new Police Station in Baghdad.
So in many ways it is all connected and intertwined.
I know...I know.....that's all ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical:rolleyes:0 -
Its Evolution Baby wrote:True. Good points.
Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.
Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.
It's a shame. Israel is essentially the source of the conflict. It's the main grievance from the Arab world. It's like China claiming a US state (then giving it away to someone), then occupying it forcefully, because some of their ancestors did something special to them in that state a couple thousand years ago (and they have it recorded in a special book which is also special to them).
This shoe just does not fit on the other foot, so as far as fairness is concerned...well there really is none.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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nobody wrote:critizising Israel is one thing. constantly stating Israel is committing a genocide and downplaying the actions of Hamas as "fighting for freedom" is another.
what do you call downplaying Israel's actions has "retaliation"?
and answer me this as well, what is Hamas fighting for?it doesn't lend your argument any credibility if you overblow and oversimplify it in such a way. Israels misdeeds have to be called out.yet one should always keep in mind Israels unique situation. and this has nothing to do with being politically correct, but being correct about reality.0 -
cornnifer wrote:All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.
It's not how much one says, but what. Your first point, sorry to say, discredits you straight away. I'm not even aboard the Bash Obama Express, but that was such a piss-poor response that it takes away any credibility your post may otherwise have.<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/sets/72157600802942672/">My Pearl Jam Photos</a>
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Not to mention that this thread title and it's topic, is a bash or attack on Outlaw.
Talk about ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical.0 -
Its Evolution Baby wrote:Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.
Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.
So Americans do care, right?
Oh wait, of course you mean they could NOT care less. And that's pretty much true, because the truth about what goes on isn't being spoon fed to them by the media... I wonder why? Hmmmmmmmmm...
The whole Israel-Palestine conflict has such far-reaching consequences, it boggles the uninformed mind. It has everything to do with US foreign policy and economics.<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/sets/72157600802942672/">My Pearl Jam Photos</a>
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_outlaw wrote:completely unrelated. what happened to answering these questions:
do you agree with him giving ALL of Jerusalem to Israel? do you agree with him when he said the Palestinians suffer as a result of them and NOT from the Israeli occupation? do you agree with him when he thinks funding the Israeli "defense" budget is fine? do you agree with the no talks policy on hamas?
the question was "do you guys agree pushing tougher sanctions on Iran BEFORE we begin talks with them?"
you agree with his stance on diplomatic talks with Iran, right? well then, why is he pushing for sanctions BEFORE he begins talks with them? don't you think that'll only make the Iranians want to comply LESS?
Iran has no military options on their table, currently. however, they did say that if they were attacked, they would retaliate. Obama on the other hand is keeping pre-emptive strikes on the table, when there is no proof the program is for nuclear weapons.
actually, there is plenty of sufficient proof that Iran's program is not for weapons, and that includes several IAEA reports. as for it being for weapons "in the future"... what the fuck kind of question is that?
that's a very poor analogy, and of course it matters whether or not the PRESIDENT thinks Iran's program is ILLEGAL or not.
hahaha, you have the most ridiculous analogies. the "compromise" Obama supported is still terrible. FISA is still unconstitutional, and is an infringement upon our rights, and as long as you excuse Obama "compromising" on that, no real change will ever come about. why would you support Obama if you don't support FISA?
yet he still voted for a "compromise" of it. compromise means dick, the Patriot Act is a terrible law and Obama voted for it.
funny, I said blank checks for IRAQ. not for war. and I never said "it's in support of war." you really love to spin words, but it's a shame that you're terrible at it.
so you agree with giving Bush checks that go towards continuing the war? do you think that if Congress were to not approve all this money going to Bush, he would be forced to actually DO something?? I love how you guys always mention it as if if Bush didn't get all the money he wanted, the soldiers would automatically be dead. give me a break.
he voted in favor of her which led to her being appointed, and of course it's an issue because it shows past actions he took, which were not very good...
Iran has no military options on the table? Really? You know this how? They've emoved military options from their table? Correct me if i'm wrong but "Retaliating if attacked" sounds a hell of alot like a military option on their table. As does "wiping Israel off the face of the map". In fact, that sounds like a direct threat.
If you have "plenty of proof that Iran's nuclear program is not for weapons, and can prove it never will be, pony up with that proof. i'd like to see it.
My analogy is not poor simply because you refuse to see the point. Point is Iran is a threat or could easily become a threat to parts of the world,
removing any options "from the table" to prevent that is stupid and naive. It does not equal war mongering or sabre rattling. Its just preparedness.
My analogies are not ridiculous. A compromise is a step in the right direction. The FISA compromise might suck, but it sucks less than what we had before the same is true of the patriot act. Obama never supported Bush's patriot act. Thats spin. Its nonsense.
Obama didn't vote to ontinue the war. He saw the necessity of the kids there being funded. Period. Cutting off funds would not end the war. It wouldn't bring a single kid home outside of a ziplock bag.
Voting to confirm Condi Rice is about the dumbest Obama attack i've read in this forum. No further response is necessary."When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."0 -
cornnifer wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong but "Retaliating if attacked" sounds a hell of alot like a military option on their table. As does "wiping Israel off the face of the map". In fact, that sounds like a direct threat.
.
I'm surprised that someone such as yourself who pride's himself on "facts" and NOT ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical nonsense; still uses that " Wipe Israel off the map " crap.
It was proven two years ago that the interpretation which made the claim of that quote, was in fact incorrect and inaccurate.
But far be it for me to point that out.0 -
next it'll be WMD's in IraqProgress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:next it'll be WMD's in Iraq
HA! you're a real freakin' comedian. Don't quit your day job of surfing youtube for crap videos from conspiracy theorists."When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."0 -
cornnifer wrote:HA! you're a real freakin' comedian. Don't quit your day job of surfing youtube for crap videos from conspiracy theorists.
Anytime you want to stop shooting yourself in both feet by showing that you're not quite familiar with the situation...go for it.
Color it whatever you want to pump the ol ego...it matters nothing to me.
dust in the wind..Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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I don't think those are silly questions at all.0
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