Nader: Obama 'talking white'

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Obama wasn't talking about their actions, but about what they claimed their policy was.


    Doesn't every president claim their policy is about doing what's best and bringing security and peace in the long run?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cincybearcat wrote:
    You finally got something right...we'll never agree.

    You mean you finally agree with one of the many things I get right. ;)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know that Nader wasn't talking about the style in which Obama is speaking but rather who is speaking for.


    By the way, there are many definitions of "talking white."

    http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/06/26/nader-on-abcs-this-week-sunday/

    Here's our definition, from the Nader/Gonzalez dictionary:

    Talking white means telling the white corporate power structure what they want to hear, rather than calling them out and telling them what they need to hear.
    Sorry, but Nader can make up as many definitions on his own website as he likes, it doesn't change what he said.

    But you're right, I am smart enough to know that he wasn't talking about Obama's speaking style. What he did mean isn't necessarily any better, though; basically a cleaned up version of "House N*****."

    And, again, I don't think Nader is particularly racist. But he is struggling to get attention (that 6% won't hold that high). Nothing screams "lookit me!" like a racially tinged remark.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Doesn't every president claim their policy is about doing what's best and bringing security and peace in the long run?

    yup.. even Bush, but their methods they preach are different

    and of course their actions public and private are all much different
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    RainDog wrote:
    And, again, I don't think Nader is particularly racist. But he is struggling to get attention (that 6% won't hold that high). Nothing screams "lookit me!" like a racially tinged remark.

    nader received 0.38% of the popular vote in the 2004 election. 6% definitely won't hold that high for this one.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    RainDog wrote:
    Sorry, but Nader can make up as many definitions on his own website as he likes, it doesn't change what he said.

    But it clarifies what he meant by it.
    RainDog wrote:
    But you're right, I am smart enough to know that he wasn't talking about Obama's speaking style. What he did mean isn't necessarily any better, though; basically a cleaned up version of "House N*****."

    That's an extreme opinion. To me he is saying that Obama isn't looking out for many of those who are voting for him. I don't like the focus on race personally but he is saying his African American supporters are voting against their own interests. It's no different than the criticize the left gave Colin Powell now that I think about it.

    And race has been a highly debated topic this entire election season. I don't think it's fair to only single Nader out for taking part in the political discourse going on.
    RainDog wrote:
    And, again, I don't think Nader is particularly racist. But he is struggling to get attention (that 6% won't hold that high). Nothing screams "lookit me!" like a racially tinged remark.

    That's your opinion...but as I recall you guys said he wouldn't even see the same level of support he got in 04 even. Oops, looks like you were wrong on that count.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Abuskedti wrote:
    yup.. even Bush, but their methods they preach are different

    and of course their actions public and private are all much different

    And which methods are different here? How is Obama's proposed policy different?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    ScreamMyLungsOut wrote:
    I think that the primary mistake most people make about Obama, including Nader, is that he's African-American. The man is bi-racial; he is not Black. As someone who is also bi-racial, it really annoys me that he's being touted as the first viable African-American presidential candidate. His racial ancestry is mixed, he had a middle-class upbringing (it took him almost 10 years to pay off his student loans--that I can REALLY relate to), and more than any other presidential candidate in history, he is a true reflection of the diversity of the American people. I'm not voting for him because I'm "Black" and he's "Black" (neither of us are, dammit); I'm voting for him because it's high time real change was made in America. McCain is just another war-mongering, big business-accomodating, let's-make-the-rich-richer-and-the-middle-class-and-poor-poorer, good old boys club Republican shill, and Obama is the only candidate who can bring real change. Obama's far from perfect, but I share his idealism and his vision for America, and hope that he's given the opportunity to bring it to fruition.

    PS: The MSG shows were SICK, yo! Ed for VP!!


    i like this person
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    nader received 0.38% of the popular vote in the 2004 election. 6% definitely won't hold that high for this one.


    People on here said no one would pay Nader any attention....that was wrong.

    You have no way of knowing if Nader's numbers will stand. They have been steadily increasing, actually. It's your opinion to have but I wouldn't try to pass it off as fact.

    People are much more politically aware and involved this election year...they are paying attention to the actual issues at a rate I haven't seen before. It seems everyone is talking politics. This plays well for Nader. He is nothing if not solid and consistent on the issues.

    2004 was an anybody but Bush year. Plus Nader was kept off the ballot in numerous states by the DNC. This year is very different.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    But it clarifies what he meant by it.
    It shows that Nader's willing to play the game, yes.
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That's an extreme opinion. To me he is saying that Obama isn't looking out for many of those who are voting for him. I don't like the focus on race personally but he is saying his African American supporters are voting against their own interests. It's no different than the criticize the left gave Colin Powell now that I think about it.
    "The left?" Some on the left, perhaps, but a minority to be sure. Most on the left criticized Powell for what he did. And, I don't believe African-Americans are voting against their interests. Obama has a record in the African-American community.
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And race has been a highly debated topic this entire election season. I don't think it's fair to only single Nader out for taking part in the political discourse going on.
    And what a way to break into it, eh?

    And really? Only singling Nader out? Missed the bits on Geraldine Ferraro, Rev. Wright, that one radio dude doing an opening act for McCain, Rev. Hagee, Hillary Clinton, and even Obama himself? A politician says something, and his or her opponents and opponents' supporters are expected to respond. The only one to blame for the size of the target Nader presented here is Nader himself.
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That's your opinion...but as I recall you guys said he wouldn't even see the same level of support he got in 04 even. Oops, looks like you were wrong on that count.
    Wrong? No one's voted, yet.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    whats funny is Nader thinking the presidential candidates should be talking about payday loans or asbestos... President is big business ralph... energy, enviroment, the war, economy... not fucking payday loans jackass :rolleyes:


    did i mention Obama is polling at 95% in the black community?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    I for one think that Nader should be involved in any presidential debate, as shoudl the LIbertarian and others. Hell, the entertainment value alone is reason enough.

    But, I also would love to see Nader and Obama debate the issues. I can picture McCain's smirk right now.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    he is saying his African American supporters are voting against their own interests.


    so my boy Ralph is saying 95% of the black community is ignorant to their personal issues and how it realtes to the candidate they are supporting?

    i think we should just have Ralph Nader decide who is the President since he knows better then everyone
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    my2hands wrote:
    so my boy Ralph is saying 95% of the black community is ignorant to their personal issues and how it realtes to the candidate they are supporting?

    i think we should just have Ralph Nader decide who is the President since he knows better then everyone


    No, he did not say that. He's saying they are believing a politican words who isn't representing their best interests. Same thing I've been saying this whole time...I believe Obama is all talk and haven't see anything he has done to point to him being this inspirational figure of change and hope.

    Maybe you should decide for us...you've been saying for months that Obama is the only way to go and we should all face it.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Nevermind
    Nevermind Posts: 1,006
    my2hands wrote:
    did i mention Obama is polling at 95% in the black community?
    Thats a huge suprise.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    RainDog wrote:
    It shows that Nader's willing to play the game, yes.

    What game is that?...explain himself more clearly after his words are not as good as they should have been and then stretched as far as to say he was calling Obama a House N*****? Yeah, that's a wise play in his behalf.

    RainDog wrote:
    "The left?" Some on the left, perhaps, but a minority to be sure. Most on the left criticized Powell for what he did. And, I don't believe African-Americans are voting against their interests. Obama has a record in the African-American community.

    And Nader is criticizing Obama for what he isn't doing nearly enough of.

    I don't think Obama's stances on the issues are in the best interests of most of us, so we will have disagree there.
    RainDog wrote:
    And what a way to break into it, eh?

    And really? Only singling Nader out? Missed the bits on Geraldine Ferraro, Rev. Wright, that one radio dude doing an opening act for McCain, Rev. Hagee, Hillary Clinton, and even Obama himself? A politician says something, and his or her opponents and opponents' supporters are expected to respond. The only one to blame for the size of the target Nader presented here is Nader himself.

    Obama himself has brought up race was my point and has played that issue to his advantage.
    RainDog wrote:
    Wrong? No one's voted, yet.

    I didn't claim they had. People on this very board said no one would pay Nader any attention this time and that has turned out to be very wrong. And yes, he was polling at 6% before this story dropped.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    my2hands wrote:
    whats funny is Nader thinking the presidential candidates should be talking about payday loans or asbestos... President is big business ralph... energy, enviroment, the war, economy... not fucking payday loans jackass :rolleyes:


    did i mention Obama is polling at 95% in the black community?


    Perhaps you don't realize what a huge deal debt and poverty are in poorer communities. It's an epidemic.

    But yeah, let not cap those interest rates.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:

    Maybe you should decide for us...you've been saying for months that Obama is the only way to go and we should all face it.

    i never said "face it" and have not rammed anything down anyones throat...

    shoot, i started the ralph nader thread for you guys...


    but anyway, i have 4 more months to work on you to see if i can sway you towards the light :D
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    What game is that?...explain himself more clearly after his words are not as good as they should have been and then stretched as far as to say he was calling Obama a House N*****? Yeah, that's a wise play in his behalf.
    It's not really a stretch, just a crass way of phrasing it. "Talking white" isn't really polite either, by the way.

    The game is politics. One of the oldest plays in that game is to get attention first, then explain yourself. A bit inartful, but that's pretty much what Nader did here.
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And Nader is criticizing Obama for what he isn't doing nearly enough of.

    I don't think Obama's stances on the issues are in the best interests of most of us, so we will have disagree there.
    Everyone has a different idea of what their best interests are; but I've no problem agreeing to disagree.


    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Obama himself has brought up race was my point and has played that issue to his advantage.
    Like fire. Obama has used it to warm his prospects; Nader's near burned his house down. Same element, different results depending on who's weilding it.

    And, just to clarify, while Obama has been able to use the race issue to his advantage (arguable, though, how much of an advantage he can actually get from it - a wash is probably the best scenerio), but he's never really been the one to bring it up. Nearly all of his remarks have been in response to the issue being raised by others (I say "nearly" because I don't like to speak in absolutes).
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I didn't claim they had. People on this very board said no one would pay Nader any attention this time and that has turned out to be very wrong. And yes, he was polling at 6% before this story dropped.
    Nader always polls higher than his actual election day results. The same goes for most independent candidates.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    But yeah, let not cap those interest rates.
    He voted against that whole bill, you know.


    Edit. Dang. Buried my own previous post on the last page.

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