How much jail time for women who've had abortions?

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Comments

  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    soulsinging wrote:
    im not talking about the woman keeping her legs shut. im saying if you're going to talk about how the man has a role and should be held accountable if abortion were illegal, how come a man has no say whatsoever in abortion decisions when it is legal? the father wants the kid and mom doesnt? he cant adopt the kid.. she can abort it without even consulting him.
    ...
    Which is why I say... he SHOULD. He should have rights to adopt the kid. But, he would still needs to care for the mother during the pregnancy and birth... just as he would if the birth mother was some random gal.
    The man SHOULD have some say in the matter... today.
    Remember... I'm not Pro-Abortion... I think that is the final (legal) option... I am Pro-Choice. Which includes the choice the man in the equation gets.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Which is why I say... he SHOULD. He should have rights to adopt the kid. But, he would still needs to care for the mother during the pregnancy and birth... just as he would if the birth mother was some random gal.
    The man SHOULD have some say in the matter... today.
    Remember... I'm not Pro-Abortion... I think that is the final (legal) option... I am Pro-Choice. Which includes the choice the man in the equation gets.

    ok, gotcha. sign me up.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    soulsinging wrote:
    not quite. you're guilty of felonious assault and battery. might be able to pin attempted murder on there too, as fucking with a woman's pregnancy can have serious consequence for her.

    illogicisms is not a word. how did you get into that school dude?

    Nah, attempted murder would def not hold up.

    Suppose your wife (assuming you have one) got pregnant and you both were expecting a child. Some thug punches her in the stomach and as a result, the fetus is dead. You would just want him charged with assault and battery?

    What if she got pregnant again and the same thing happened? You could've had two children but because of the actions of the douche, you don't have any.

    How is that fair at all? The guy could take your kids from you before they're even born and he only gets an assault and battery charge? There's like no jailtime for that charge either.

    Did you know that murder is the most frequent cause of death for pregnant women?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    What if she got pregnant again and the same thing happened? You could've had two children but because of the actions of the douche, you don't have any.
    Well, I tell ya, the first time would be bad enough; but after the second, I think I'd quit inviting him over.
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Nah, attempted murder would def not hold up.

    .............................................................................................

    Did you know that murder is the most frequent cause of death for pregnant women?
    You don't think a good attorney could draw this connection and get a more serious punishment for the perpetrator?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Nah, attempted murder would def not hold up.

    Suppose your wife (assuming you have one) got pregnant and you both were expecting a child. Some thug punches her in the stomach and as a result, the fetus is dead. You would just want him charged with assault and battery?

    correct. it would suck, but there you have it. if your wife was doing too much physical exercise and it caused a miscarriage, would you want her charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter? i mean, of course, assuming you let her out of the kitchen while she was pregnant.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    soulsinging wrote:
    correct. it would suck, but there you have it. if your wife was doing too much physical exercise and it caused a miscarriage, would you want her charged with negligent homicide or manslaughter? i mean, of course, assuming you let her out of the kitchen while she was pregnant.

    That's a rather extreme position to take. Obviously that would be accidental and it is well accepted that miscarriages are more likely than manslaughter of a born child. If she purposely caused a miscarriage, well yes that would be called an abortion.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    A
    How about if the biological father wants the kid and the Mom doesn't? Let him adopt the kid.
    Let him be pregnant and give birth.... I hate to say this, though it does take two to tango, men and women are definitely not equal in this matter. I would say that it should stay mainly within the woman's right to do as she sees fit for her.. unfortunately, it's a raw deal for the potential father. But in cases where there is conflict with mother and potential father, one can argue that the relationship between the adults (and therefore with the child, should it develop to birth) is a lost cause to start with.... One way or the other, the child is an accident and is not wanted for a number of reasons.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    redrock wrote:
    Let him be pregnant and give birth.... I hate to say this, though it does take two to tango, men and women are definitely not equal in this matter. I would say that it should stay mainly within the woman's right to do as she sees fit for her.. unfortunately, it's a raw deal for the potential father. But in cases where there is conflict with mother and potential father, one can argue that the relationship between the adults (and therefore with the child, should it develop to birth) is a lost cause to start with.... One way or the other, the child is an accident and is not wanted for a number of reasons.

    So the father wants it but the mother doesn't want her vagina to be stretched out so she aborts it. Excellent reason to abort your child!
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    So the father wants it but the mother doesn't want her vagina to be stretched out so she aborts it. Excellent reason to abort your child!

    Oh my... how you simplify things and bring them down to your level...... A potential mother sees way beyond that.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    redrock wrote:
    Oh my... how you simplify things and bring them down to your level...... A potential mother sees way beyond that.

    A potential mother says "I can't afford this kid." That's it. The effect on her vagina size might also be a factor.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    A potential mother says "I can't afford this kid." That's it. The effect on her vagina size might also be a factor.
    Yep. The main complaint of every pregnant woman I've ever talked to has been "I'm broke, and my vagina's gonna be huge." Now cue the "my girlfriend's pussy is so big" jokes from Predator.

    You're not even "simplifying" things here. You're putting up non-sequitor distractions to a much larger issue.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    The effect on her vagina size might also be a factor.
    There's surgery to correct that if necessary.... You are completely missing the point.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    Let him be pregnant and give birth.... I hate to say this, though it does take two to tango, men and women are definitely not equal in this matter. I would say that it should stay mainly within the woman's right to do as she sees fit for her.. unfortunately, it's a raw deal for the potential father. But in cases where there is conflict with mother and potential father, one can argue that the relationship between the adults (and therefore with the child, should it develop to birth) is a lost cause to start with.... One way or the other, the child is an accident and is not wanted for a number of reasons.
    ...
    I'm just stating that other than the pregnant woman... the only other person with a valid opinion is the guy who knocked her up. It shouldn't be strangers or politicians or religious fucks. And you're right, though... it ultimately comes down to HER decision, but he can and should provide an alternative solution, if he wants the child. If he doesn't care... he doesn't care and the anti-abortion people should be all over his ass as well.
    IF he wants the child... he is willing to pay for 100% of all costs associated with the pregnancy and birth. Expecting her to split the costs is the same as asking the random girl you are adopting a child from to pay.
    Once the child is born, the mother surrenders her parental rights... the same way mothers do not pay child support to the adopting parents.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Flannel Shirt
    Flannel Shirt Posts: 1,021
    Lets put all our effort and energy into preventing unwanted pregnancy. That is something I think we all agree on.

    "Whats gonna work? TEAMWORK!" - The Wonder Pets
    All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Cosmo wrote:
    IF he wants the child... he is willing to pay for 100% of all costs associated with the pregnancy and birth. ........
    Once the child is born, the mother surrenders her parental rights...

    See.. that's the thing.. being pregnant and giving birth is not just about costs and money (or a dilated vagina, as one put it so nicely). There is a shitload of things happening to the expectant mother, physically, emotionally, heathwise, that is extremely difficult to describe if you haven't been through it. This does not stop with the birth... It is a very complicated situation.. most ladies going through a termination suffer a lot of angst about it, before and after, whatever her situation may be. Adding prison time to that would just be wrong.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Going back to the original question of "How much jail time for women who've had abortions?".

    Hopefully none. While I am not in favor of abortion and think it is the wrong choice with long term consequences that are glossed over I would not wan to see the mother jailed. I wouldn't care if they decided to jail the abortion provider.

    I don't buy into the whole arguement of if you make it illegal you only push the activity underground making it more dangerous for the mother. You could apply this logic to get rid of just about every law in existence.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    Flannel Shirt wrote:
    Lets put all our effort and energy into preventing unwanted pregnancy. That is something I think we all agree on.

    We do. Now cue the abstinance only vs. condoms/sex ed thread...
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Flannel Shirt
    Flannel Shirt Posts: 1,021
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    We do. Now cue the abstinance only vs. condoms/sex ed thread...
    LOL.


    Relegious right cannot have it both ways.

    Abortion is bad. Condoms are bad. Sex education is bad. Guess you have to pick the worse of the evils. Condoms and sex ed win out.

    Sex isnt bad. That is something else I think we all agree on.

    Now that I think about it, and I have thought long and hard on this subject as its a moral quandry of mine (I really do see it through both sides), we really should........

    PROMOTE HUMMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There, I solved that problem. Next....
    All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    if you kill a pregnant woman you are charged with 2 murders. i think they call it the stacy pederson law.
    so if the government will prosecute one man for killing a fetus; why is another free to continue killing fetuses? and if the woman not only allows it; but pays for the killing; why isn't that murder for hire?

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