We See Conspiracies That Don't Exist

2

Comments

  • Posts: 8,066
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Why would anyone be driving a nail in their own coffin by simply having a different opinion on this subject? It's not some crazy idea to think there could be a conspiracy involved. We've posted tons of stuff proving that.


    Same kind of thinking that people have when they think that Iraq needs a McDonalds in their country. ;)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Posts: 3,517
    gue_barium wrote:
    This is one article of a series from the staunchest "Left" in the media today.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/thermo11282006.html

    I recommend that you read them all.

    Myself, I am certain that there was complitcity on 9/11 in some levels in Federal government. I don't think that the Federal Government was involved in the towers falling down. I think we need to look past the nuts and the bolts of this thing and ask why it was able to happen in the first place, and the players involved.

    you cannot present a conspiracy theory without a theory. for example; in the jfk assassination; the theory was that a second shooter was in the grassy knoll. in the case of the 9/11 incident; no logical theories have been presented. they just say i don't know how it happened; but it didn't happen how they said it did.
    on the other hand; conspiracy theories are usually made by people that do not have access to all the facts. 99% of the time; an uninformed theory is worthless. it's nothing more than a shot in the dark.
  • Posts: 12,225
    I believe that the Bush Administration is too inept to execute something as complicated as the September 11th Attacks. And even if they did... the Oval Office leaks like a siv and the truth would come out.
    I think they USED the attacks as an opportunity to settle an old score with Saddam Hussein. They WANTED Hussein implicated and taken out and this was a golden opportunity to do so. I see them more as opportunists who capitalized on a tragic event in America's history.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Posts: 3,517
    Cosmo wrote:
    I believe that the Bush Administration is too inept to execute something as complicated as the September 11th Attacks. And even if they did... the Oval Office leaks like a siv and the truth would come out.
    I think they USED the attacks as an opportunity to settle an old score with Saddam Hussein. They WANTED Hussein implicated and taken out and this was a golden opportunity to do so. I see them more as opportunists who capitalized on a tragic event in America's history.

    when saddam paid the families of the hijackers and said he'd pay others whos families make attacks on the us; he drew the line in the sand. he knew he was in for an ass kicking.
  • Posts: 13,202
    gue_barium wrote:
    I think this is important. These writers are pretty much saying that the conspiracy theories are driving a nail in the coffin of Left aspirations. This is good research.

    this is what i've been saying since the towers fell.
  • Posts: 13,066
    and the right has been driving nails internationally ever since the war started...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 12,225
    onelongsong wrote:
    when saddam paid the families of the hijackers and said he'd pay others whos families make attacks on the us; he drew the line in the sand. he knew he was in for an ass kicking.
    ...
    Nice Fairey Tale, mate. But, Hussein's offers were for suicide bombers in Israel... like the payments that come from unofficial state sponsorship in Saudi Arabia, Lebannon, Syria, Egypt, Yemen and Jordan.
    History is not like faith... just because you believe it, doesn't make it true. I would think that as a lawyer, you should already know this.
    ...
    P.S. You aren't doing any 'Ass Kicking'. Ass kicking and Ass Sitting are two completely different things.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Posts: 13,202
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    and the right has been driving nails internationally ever since the war started...

    quite true. the problem is, the only reason the right got the chance to do this is becos the left as driving nails into its coffin here at home well before bush ahd the chance. the left was right about iraq. but this 9/11 nonsense seemed so kooky that the people in the middle weren't going to listen. so the right won all the elections and has been fucking the rest of us ever since. only now are people finally coming around and it sure as hell has nothing to do with 9/11 conspiracy theories.
  • Posts: 8,209
    soulsinging wrote:
    quite true. the problem is, the only reason the right got the chance to do this is becos the left as driving nails into its coffin here at home well before bush ahd the chance. the left was right about iraq. but this 9/11 nonsense seemed so kooky that the people in the middle weren't going to listen. so the right won all the elections and has been fucking the rest of us ever since. only now are people finally coming around and it sure as hell has nothing to do with 9/11 conspiracy theories.


    The main reason the left is 'driving nails into their own coffins' is #1. They (the dems) don't stand up for their own ideals. They try to cater to people who aren't going to vote for them anyways thus alienating any chance of getting independents or true liberals to take them seriously. They stand for nothing pretty much because they try to have their cake and eat it too. #2. They promote freedom of religion and work to keep it out of law making and public affairs. This angers the Christian majority in this country and opens the door for the right to paint them as 'godless liberals with no morals'. That is infact changing thankfully because everyone can see that war and greed are actually godless and taking prayer out of the classroom isn't such a big deal compared losing your son or daughter in a needless war or having your job hauled overseas.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Posts: 13,066
    soulsinging wrote:
    quite true. the problem is, the only reason the right got the chance to do this is becos the left as driving nails into its coffin here at home well before bush ahd the chance. the left was right about iraq. but this 9/11 nonsense seemed so kooky that the people in the middle weren't going to listen. so the right won all the elections and has been fucking the rest of us ever since. only now are people finally coming around and it sure as hell has nothing to do with 9/11 conspiracy theories.

    9/11 was the catalyst to war...the eye for an eye concept. If anything the 9/11 CT'ers have opened eyes to the obvious Bush nightmare and endless clusterfucks. It's the CT'ers digging for the truth and actually finding it under each new rock that is turned over. Thank god for that...someone's gotta do it
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 1,045
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It's the CT'ers digging for the truth and actually finding it under each new rock that is turned over. Thank god for that...someone's gotta do it

    Name one absolute provable testable 'fact' that CT'ers have brought to light that was otherwise unkown.

    Name one.
  • Posts: 13,066
    69charger wrote:
    Name one absolute provable testable 'fact' that CT'ers have brought to light that was otherwise unkown.

    Name one.

    Go ask Alex Jones....he'll party hardy with ya... :p
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 13,202
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    The main reason the left is 'driving nails into their own coffins' is #1. They (the dems) don't stand up for their own ideals. They try to cater to people who aren't going to vote for them anyways thus alienating any chance of getting independents or true liberals to take them seriously. They stand for nothing pretty much because they try to have their cake and eat it too. #2. They promote freedom of religion and work to keep it out of law making and public affairs. This angers the Christian majority in this country and opens the door for the right to paint them as 'godless liberals with no morals'. That is infact changing thankfully because everyone can see that war and greed are actually godless and taking prayer out of the classroom isn't such a big deal compared losing your son or daughter in a needless war or having your job hauled overseas.

    1) that reasoning is WHY the dems keep losing elections: the self-defeating thought that it is impossible for liberal ideas to be accepted in the mainstream. it shows how out of touch you are with real america and it's why they keep losing. the idea that dems must give up on trying to reach middle american voters and run a ralph nader campaign is ridiculous. if the dems ran on a hard left ticket, they'd never win another election again. ever. america is conservative for the most part. the dems have to stand as a centrist party or become irrelevant. every hard left candidate that has ever run in the modern era has gotten slaughtered in the general election. but you present moderately liberal ideas to america without this "dubya is satan and personally blew up those towers!" nonsense and you can win.

    2) this is true. the christian right at the moment has a huge and powerful political influence. though im not sure it's waning just yet. that remains to be seen.
  • Posts: 13,202
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    9/11 was the catalyst to war...the eye for an eye concept. If anything the 9/11 CT'ers have opened eyes to the obvious Bush nightmare and endless clusterfucks. It's the CT'ers digging for the truth and actually finding it under each new rock that is turned over. Thank god for that...someone's gotta do it

    bullshit. what has turned people against this war is seeing the death toll rise in iraq. they don't give a flying fuck about who you think blew up the wtc. 9/11 is forgotten aside from being a huge tragedy. it has been cheapened and demeaned by the bush admin at every point and completely eclipsed by the war in iraq. the 9/11 conspiracy theories havent changed anyone's minds, what changed their minds was the death toll and the growing suspicion that wmd's never existed in iraq.
  • Posts: 8,209
    soulsinging wrote:
    1) that reasoning is WHY the dems keep losing elections: the self-defeating thought that it is impossible for liberal ideas to be accepted in the mainstream. it shows how out of touch you are with real america and it's why they keep losing. the idea that dems must give up on trying to reach middle american voters and run a ralph nader campaign is ridiculous. if the dems ran on a hard left ticket, they'd never win another election again. ever. america is conservative for the most part. the dems have to stand as a centrist party or become irrelevant. every hard left candidate that has ever run in the modern era has gotten slaughtered in the general election. but you present moderately liberal ideas to america without this "dubya is satan and personally blew up those towers!" nonsense and you can win.

    The left is not the right and it can't keep trying to pretend to be a watered down version of it. That creates sooo many apathetic voters and unimpressed independents. I don't share the view with you that liberal ideas wouldn't be supported in this country so we'll have to agree to disagree there. In polls the general public supports leftist ideas overwhelmingly but they are also easily swayed by the media as to what's good for them and then there's the religion thing. I think that is slowly changing. History supports what I'm saying. Look at Kerry...he went up against an increasingly unpopular Bush and still lost because he stood for jack shit. He kept wanting to say one thing to one crowd and another to the next. No one was really sure what the hell he stood for. And I feel that's the problem with most Dems. They have no backbone and only get elected when the right's horrible policies are too much to bare anymore...see Clinton and the elections last fall.

    also, i've never approached discussing 9/11 with the Bush is satan and blew up anything' stance. I discuss questions and theories that I've read about. I don't think it's an important issue to run on in an election. I think it's something to discuss and share. No one can change the past so there's no need to make it out like it's some dire issue. I think the citizens of this country can make up their own minds and they do. I'm not trying to bring Dubya down or anyting like that just trying to show people what the very powerful in this country are capable of before they go throwing there trust in places it shouldn't go, imo.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Posts: 13,066
    soulsinging wrote:
    bullshit. what has turned people against this war is seeing the death toll rise in iraq. they don't give a flying fuck about who you think blew up the wtc. 9/11 is forgotten aside from being a huge tragedy. it has been cheapened and demeaned by the bush admin at every point and completely eclipsed by the war in iraq. the 9/11 conspiracy theories havent changed anyone's minds, what changed their minds was the death toll and the growing suspicion that wmd's never existed in iraq.

    Death toll yeah somewhat...however what's really doing it is that people are starting to wake up and realize they were lied to. The war was bullshit in the first place. Why? because CT'ers called the official story BS the whole way and it was bullshit. The WMD thing. To blindly follow anything is sheer stupidity. It's essentially like forfeiting your brain.

    The CT'ers didn't stop functioning or hover solely around 9/11 either...every step of the way they've been speaking out and illuminating important issues and generating important discussion. A very real necessity. A large majority of all this is from CT sites on the internet. It certainly isn't coming from Fox and CNN.

    Curious, do you consider Michael Moore a crazy conspiracy theorist?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Posts: 13,202
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    The left is not the right and it can't keep trying to pretend to be a watered down version of it. That creates sooo many apathetic voters and unimpressed independents. I don't share the view with you that liberal ideas wouldn't be supported in this country so we'll have to agree to disagree there. In polls the general public supports leftist ideas overwhelmingly but they are also easily swayed by the media as to what's good for them and then there's the religion thing. I think that is slowly changing. History supports what I'm saying. Look at Kerry...he went up against an increasingly unpopular Bush and still lost because he stood for jack shit. He kept wanting to say one thing to one crowd and another to the next. No one was really sure what the hell he stood for. And I feel that's the problem with most Dems. They have no backbone and only get elected when the right's horrible policies are too much to bare anymore...see Clinton and the elections last fall.

    that is my point. liberal ideas can be accepted, but you have to sell them to the middle and know your audience. kerry lost for a lot of reasons, ive never seen such an unfocused and inadequate campaign. im not suggesting the dems water down conservative politics. im talking about saying "we oppose the war." not saying "we oppose the war becos we think cheney and a council of secret gurus gathered and planned 9/11 for oil revenues." that is when the libs lose credibility and their message is ignored. just as having no stance killed kerry with undecideds, having a slightly nutty stance will kill any liberal with sound policy if he couches it in "look how evil those people are." it makes them look crazy.
  • Posts: 13,202
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Death toll yeah somewhat...however what's really doing it is that people are starting to wake up and realize they were lied to. The war was bullshit in the first place. Why? because CT'ers called the official story BS the whole way and it was bullshit. The WMD thing. To blindly follow anything is sheer stupidity. It's essentially like forfeiting your brain.

    The CT'ers didn't stop functioning or hover solely around 9/11 either...every step of the way they've been speaking out and illuminating important issues and generating important discussion. A very real necessity. A large majority of all this is from CT sites on the internet. It certainly isn't coming from Fox and CNN.

    Curious, do you consider Michael Moore a crazy conspiracy theorist?

    no, i consider michael moore to be just plain crazy and a sensationalist.

    the wmd thing was not a conspiracy theory. it was widely uncertain from the beginning. the 9/11 thing is a conspiracy theory. jfk's assassination was a conspiracy theory. ufo coverups are conspiracy theories.
  • Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    no, i consider michael moore to be just plain crazy and a sensationalist.

    the wmd thing was not a conspiracy theory. it was widely uncertain from the beginning. the 9/11 thing is a conspiracy theory. jfk's assassination was a conspiracy theory. ufo coverups are conspiracy theories.
    you lay it down for those hippies how it is. i got your back.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Posts: 8,209
    soulsinging wrote:
    that is my point. liberal ideas can be accepted, but you have to sell them to the middle and know your audience. kerry lost for a lot of reasons, ive never seen such an unfocused and inadequate campaign. im not suggesting the dems water down conservative politics. im talking about saying "we oppose the war." not saying "we oppose the war becos we think cheney and a council of secret gurus gathered and planned 9/11 for oil revenues." that is when the libs lose credibility and their message is ignored. just as having no stance killed kerry with undecideds, having a slightly nutty stance will kill any liberal with sound policy if he couches it in "look how evil those people are." it makes them look crazy.


    And who exaclty is running on their opinions of 9/11 or the view that anyone is evil. I, myself, don't even believe in evil. I believe there is, however, different perspectives, misjudgements and selfishness that cause people to do things that seem unthinkable to others.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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