How can you not associate Obama's church to Obama?

JP2026766
JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
edited June 2008 in A Moving Train
With what Wright and Pfleger have said...it's just difficult for me to separate him from that. He's known Pfleger for 20 years (like Wright), got him 200,000 bucks in earmarked bills...I just want to understand why people don't associate the two.

Mansfield II '08

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  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    Well, I've gone to a very conservative church my whole life, and I am pro-choice, pro gay rights, and a hardcore Democrat.

    My pastor has made crazy remarks in the past, does that mean that I believe the crazy remarks? No. You may ask why I continue you to go to this church. Well, it is nice to spend the time with my family as a whole, and my grandpa was a firm believer in the church and when I go I feel close to him and remember him.

    That doesn't mean that I believe everything (or half) of what I hear there, but I have a personal history there that I couldn't find anywhere else--I'm sure like Senator and Mrs. Obama had of their former church since it is the place where Barack found God, got married, and where their children are baptized.

    Not everyone who goes to church drinks the crazy kool aid.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,975
    I get tired of everyone taking what someone else has said and then attaching it to that someone's friend, co-worker, etc.

    I have a bunch of friends that I disagree with on many issues...I sure hope others don't hold what they say against me
    hippiemom = goodness
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    ledvedderman wrote:
    That doesn't mean that I believe everything (or half) of what I hear there, but I have a personal history there that I couldn't find anywhere else--I'm sure like Senator and Mrs. Obama had of their former church since it is the place where Barack found God, got married, and where their children are baptized.

    Not everyone who goes to church drinks the crazy kool aid.

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  • JP2026766
    JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I get tired of everyone taking what someone else has said and then attaching it to that someone's friend, co-worker, etc.

    I have a bunch of friends that I disagree with on many issues...I sure hope others don't hold what they say against me

    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, just trying to understand. And you do make a very good point. It isn't fair to just blindly associate, I agree with that. But is it fair to at least examine their relationship? Does that come with the territory of running for a position as prestigious as President?

    Mansfield II '08

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  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, just trying to understand. And you do make a very good point. It isn't fair to just blindly associate, I agree with that. But is it fair to at least examine their relationship? Does that come with the territory of running for a position as prestigious as President?

    not to the degree that it has been "examined" already for months.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,906
    I think people are either waiting or baiting Obama to go "ghetto". I think confuses and pisses people off that they haven't found that "thing" that will just make him lose it. They don't understand what makes him tick, they're all waiting to see the angry black man. I'm not so sure this doesn't include Wright or Pfleger wanting Obama to stand up for the heat they have taken, even though Wright and Pfleger brought it on themselves.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,499
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    With what Wright and Pfleger have said...it's just difficult for me to separate him from that. He's known Pfleger for 20 years (like Wright), got him 200,000 bucks in earmarked bills...I just want to understand why people don't associate the two.

    Isn't this simply the essence of prejudice?

    are you really who you associate with? c'mon

    a few months ago "some people" thought Obama was Muslim.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,975
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, just trying to understand. And you do make a very good point. It isn't fair to just blindly associate, I agree with that. But is it fair to at least examine their relationship? Does that come with the territory of running for a position as prestigious as President?


    Personally I don't think it is fair to take what a someone says from the pulpit and apply it to everyone sitting in that room, every word.

    I understand where you are coming from and have had this discussion with a friend of mine that dislikes Obama and (in my friends word) his "undefined movement of change".

    But I guess if you are going to align yourself with a church and pastor to garner votes, maybe you deserve it when it bites you on the ass.
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  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,499
    This is WHY I don't go to church....








    That....... and I don't believe in God and mindless worship and pandering.
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  • Its Evolution Baby
    Its Evolution Baby Posts: 849
    My girlfriend belongs to an Armenian church and they preach staying together as a community and keeping Armenian tradition alive by marrying only other Armenians.

    However my girlfriend and I are very happy and I'm not even close to being an Armenian (Irish/Portuguese). I don't associate what her church believes and what she believes.
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  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,888
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    With what Wright and Pfleger have said...it's just difficult for me to separate him from that. He's known Pfleger for 20 years (like Wright), got him 200,000 bucks in earmarked bills...I just want to understand why people don't associate the two.

    To say he had the same relationship with Pfleger as he did with Wright is incorrect.
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    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
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    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • JP2026766
    JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
    blackredyellow wrote:
    To say he had the same relationship with Pfleger as he did with Wright is incorrect.

    I didn't say he had the same relationship with Pfleger as he did with Wright. I said he has known him as long.

    Mansfield II '08

    EV Solo Shows:

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  • sweetpotato
    sweetpotato Posts: 1,278
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Well, I've gone to a very conservative church my whole life, and I am pro-choice, pro gay rights, and a hardcore Democrat.

    My pastor has made crazy remarks in the past, does that mean that I believe the crazy remarks? No. You may ask why I continue you to go to this church. Well, it is nice to spend the time with my family as a whole, and my grandpa was a firm believer in the church and when I go I feel close to him and remember him.

    That doesn't mean that I believe everything (or half) of what I hear there, but I have a personal history there that I couldn't find anywhere else--I'm sure like Senator and Mrs. Obama had of their former church since it is the place where Barack found God, got married, and where their children are baptized.

    Not everyone who goes to church drinks the crazy kool aid.

    one of the best posts on this subject EVER.

    thank you, lvman.
    "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."

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  • sweetpotato
    sweetpotato Posts: 1,278
    puremagic wrote:
    I think people are either waiting or baiting Obama to go "ghetto". I think (it) confuses and pisses people off that they haven't found that "thing" that will just make him lose it. They don't understand what makes him tick, they're all waiting to see the angry black man...

    BINGO! and that's pretty much the essence of racism, isn't it?

    2nd best post on this topic, ever. :)
    "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."

    "Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore

    "i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
    ~ed, 8/7
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Q: How can you not associate Obama's church to Obama?

    A: Easy...you go outside and bounce your head off the nearest sidewalk until you go cross eyed and pass out...repeat if necessary.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
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  • Staceb10
    Staceb10 Posts: 675
    You have to associate them to some degree. Sure not all of a sermon is going to relate to everyone but you can't tell me that Wright's sermons over the years haven't been racist at all. And for those defending Obama's friendship with his racist pastor, would you defend Bush if the roles were reversed?
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,888
    What is funny is how fox news and the right are having a circle jerk over "another pastor scandal". And this one is about a pastor making fun of Hilary Clinton - you would think they would embrace the guy, hell they've been doing it for years.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
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  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    ledvedderman wrote:
    My pastor has made crazy remarks in the past, does that mean that I believe the crazy remarks? No. You may ask why I continue you to go to this church. Well, it is nice to spend the time with my family as a whole, and my grandpa was a firm believer in the church and when I go I feel close to him and remember him.

    That's the all-time best reason/reasoning I have ever heard for going to church.

    Well said!!! Great to hear those reasons!


    Not that you'll get me to go:D
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,975
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    This is WHY I don't go to church....








    That....... and I don't believe in God and mindless worship and pandering.

    You don't have to believe in God and go to church to be a mindless worshiper and panderer. Plenty of that to go around.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,308
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    Isn't this simply the essence of prejudice?

    are you really who you associate with? c'mon

    a few months ago "some people" thought Obama was Muslim.

    I'm pretty sure Obama is a Muslim. I saw it on Fox News.

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