Girl Talk and Temple of the Dog

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Comments

  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    That is completely different.


    It all comes down to if you think a DJ is a musician. Sampling is a new form of creating music. Girl Talk creates new songs by taking pieces of other songs and splicing them together so that they form new pieces. Ever heard of a collage?

    Is this art: http://www.artasauthority.com/images/Joey%20Burns.jpg

    Or this: http://www.poprockart.com/images/glow.jpg

    What about this one: http://www.gregpalast.com/madhouseposter.jpg

    Collage is an art form just how today, DJ-ing is a form of musicianship. Sure it's not the classic way of a musicianship in terms of plugging in a guitar or bangning on a drum, but a form of electronic music. It's not as easy as just pressing play on iTunes. Like I said many times you have to change the pitch of songs(like Kanye does), or shift a time signature, or find songs in the same key. It's like The Beatles' Love album...that was done in a collage way...was that not music? Girl Talk does not have jarring transisitons in any of his songs and if he did then it would take away from what he is trying to do.

    So whatever. Obviously if you don't think DJs are musicians then my argument is moot. I guess it's up to the ear of the beholder.


    And what is the deal with sterotyping fans? Who gives a shit who listens? That's a red herring agrument.

    the beatles love album was music, but the people who put it together were artists, not musicians.

    how is my analogy different? explain it to me. you can't just say it is different.

    collages ARE art. those who make them ARE artists. but they are not PAINTERS. painters paint things. musicians play musical instruments. sculptors sculpt things. a collage comes out a picture, just like a dj creates a musical song. but the collage maker is not a painter just because he made paintings into an original picture, just like a dj is not a musician just because he turned other people's musical into an original song.

    collage is an artform, and so is being a dj. but the guy who makes a collage is not a painter or sculptor and the guy who dj's is not a musician.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • MonsterOfTheMidway
    MonsterOfTheMidway Posts: 416
    catch22 wrote:
    the beatles love album was music, but the people who put it together were artists, not musicians.

    how is my analogy different? explain it to me. you can't just say it is different.

    collages ARE art. those who make them ARE artists. but they are not PAINTERS. painters paint things. musicians play musical instruments. sculptors sculpt things. a collage comes out a picture, just like a dj creates a musical song. but the collage maker is not a painter just because he made paintings into an original picture, just like a dj is not a musician just because he turned other people's musical into an original song.



    See here is a lapse in logic. You are saying a collage artists are not painters. Duh. I'm not saying a DJ is a guitarist or a drummer, but they are musicians.

    And you can be an artist and use photoshop. ALOT of art today is graphic design which is all done on computers. So yocan photoshop stuff and it be art. Anything can be art really.

    Anyway, I'm done with this argument. You obviously don't think DJ-ing is a form of musicianship and are pretty stubborn about it so I'm not going to try to change your mind.
    16

    Lil Wayne is better than Pearl Jam.

    Bitches ain't nothin' but hoes 'n tricks
  • Songburst
    Songburst Posts: 1,195
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    That is completely different.


    It all comes down to if you think a DJ is a musician. Sampling is a new form of creating music. Girl Talk creates new songs by taking pieces of other songs and splicing them together so that they form new pieces. Ever heard of a collage?

    Is this art: http://www.artasauthority.com/images/Joey%20Burns.jpg

    Or this: http://www.poprockart.com/images/glow.jpg

    What about this one: http://www.gregpalast.com/madhouseposter.jpg

    Collage is an art form just how today, DJ-ing is a form of musicianship. Sure it's not the classic way of a musicianship in terms of plugging in a guitar or bangning on a drum, but a form of electronic music. It's not as easy as just pressing play on iTunes. Like I said many times you have to change the pitch of songs(like Kanye does), or shift a time signature, or find songs in the same key. It's like The Beatles' Love album...that was done in a collage way...was that not music? Girl Talk does not have jarring transisitons in any of his songs and if he did then it would take away from what he is trying to do.

    So whatever. Obviously if you don't think DJs are musicians then my argument is moot. I guess it's up to the ear of the beholder.


    And what is the deal with sterotyping fans? Who gives a shit who listens? That's a red herring agrument.

    Girl Talk is a just a modern day Jive Bunny. You must have been at a wedding where those Jive Bunny medleys are played and every time the song clip changes various people go "woooo!". It's the same thing with these Girl Talk tracks. It will be played to death at the bar and various people on the dance floor will go "woo!" when they recognize a song clip. Can you actually imagine somebody deciding that they want to listen to music putting this shit on? This stuff is all about short attention spans.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    See here is a lapse in logic. You are saying a collage artists are not painters. Duh. I'm not saying a DJ is a guitarist or a drummer, but they are musicians.

    and i am saying a musician has to play some sort of musical instrument. and a computer is not a musical instrument. you don't say a computer is a pen and paper just because it has ms word on it.
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    And you can be an artist and use photoshop. ALOT of art today is graphic design which is all done on computers. So yocan photoshop stuff and it be art. Anything can be art really.

    where have i ever argued with this? i've been saying this since point one.
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    Anyway, I'm done with this argument. You obviously don't think DJ-ing is a form of musicianship and are pretty stubborn about it so I'm not going to try to change your mind.

    no, i dont. i think dj's are artists. but i don't consider them musicians. and while i can appreciate the work of dj's (see daft punk, or prodigy), i don't think girl talk is anywhere near genius level. girl talk is to being a dj what goo goo dolls are to rock and roll.

    chicago rules. we probably know each other, hehe.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    i was amused.
  • MonsterOfTheMidway
    MonsterOfTheMidway Posts: 416
    catch22 wrote:
    and i am saying a musician has to play some sort of musical instrument. and a computer is not a musical instrument.



    One last thing. This i don't agree with. So a computerized synthesizer is not an instrument? By saying a computer is no an instrument you are discounting countless electonic musicians.


    In Radiohead's Idioteque they sample a Paul Lansky song and Johnny plays a sequencer. Are they not being musicians in that band?
    16

    Lil Wayne is better than Pearl Jam.

    Bitches ain't nothin' but hoes 'n tricks
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    One last thing. This i don't agree with. So a computerized synthesizer is not an instrument? By saying a computer is no an instrument you are discounting countless electonic musicians.


    In Radiohead's Idioteque they sample a Paul Lansky song and Johnny plays a sequencer. Are they not being musicians in that band?

    they are, because johnny plays musical instruments. ;) i'm not sure i know what a computerized synthesizer is or how it works.

    my vision of this is my old college roommate, who would basically just sit there and play with itunes or some such program. not a musical bone in his body, but damn if he couldn't tinker with things on his computer. maybe there have been advances in the field since then.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    catch22 wrote:
    i'll distill briefly to clarify. a guitarist plucks a note. it makes a sound. daft punk, punches a key, it makes a sound. this guy does not do that. he presses a button and a song plays. there is no creation of a song by individual sound. he just plays a fully formed song. that is the distinction to me.
    How is a keyboard any more musical? it's a synthetic sound triggered by a button, same as a sampler or computer.

    If you think this guy has literally just recorded one song over another with no manipulation and use of his own creative imagination, listen again and realise how daft you sound.

    You know professionaly keyboards? The one's where the instruments are actual sampled recordings? When a keyboard player plays that key, the sound that comes out is a recording made by a person playing a piano, saxophone, vibraphone, marimba, drum, flute, cor anglais, whatever.

    HOW is it any different?
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    How is a keyboard any more musical? it's a synthetic sound triggered by a button, same as a sampler or computer.

    If you think this guy has literally just recorded one song over another with no manipulation and use of his own creative imagination, listen again and realise how daft you sound.

    You know professionaly keyboards? The one's where the instruments are actual sampled recordings? When a keyboard player plays that key, the sound that comes out is a recording made by a person playing a piano, saxophone, vibraphone, marimba, drum, flute, cor anglais, whatever.

    HOW is it any different?

    they're still playing a song note by note. not pressing play on a fully formed song.

    basically, my standard is if i can do it, then the dude's not a musician. with the right computer program and an instruction manual i can build the songs he has and create them on my own on my computer just by twirling a few buttons. but i cannot play the simplest song on guitar, harmonica, recorder, or whatever other instrument you like.

    i don't know what this synthesizer machine is, maybe it's getting closer to a real instrument. but this dude's album sounds like he sat on his computer and spliced a ton of songs together, like me editing my porn vids (start here, now stop, now clip, now add... voila... greatest hits of keri sable/90s pop music! ;)). if i knew someone would pay to listen to that, i'd have been paying more attention to what my roommate was doing in college.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • MonsterOfTheMidway
    MonsterOfTheMidway Posts: 416
    catch22 wrote:
    they're still playing a song note by note. not pressing play on a fully formed song.

    basically, my standard is if i can do it, then the dude's not a musician. with the right computer program and an instruction manual i can build the songs he has and create them on my own on my computer just by twirling a few buttons. but i cannot play the simplest song on guitar, harmonica, recorder, or whatever other instrument you like.

    i don't know what this synthesizer machine is, maybe it's getting closer to a real instrument. but this dude's album sounds like he sat on his computer and spliced a ton of songs together, like me editing my porn vids (start here, now stop, now clip, now add... voila... greatest hits of keri sable/90s pop music! ;)). if i knew someone would pay to listen to that, i'd have been paying more attention to what my roommate was doing in college.



    You don't know what a synthesizer is?


    And if you could made stuff like Girl Talk, then go ahead. Like I said, it's not as easy as you make it out to be.
    16

    Lil Wayne is better than Pearl Jam.

    Bitches ain't nothin' but hoes 'n tricks
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    MonsterOfTheMidway wrote:
    You don't know what a synthesizer is?


    And if you could made stuff like Girl Talk, then go ahead. Like I said, it's not as easy as you make it out to be.

    i thought i did, but based on you and jeremy's description, it might not be exactly what i think.

    i did make something like Girl Talk once. let me find my power hour cd ;)
    and like that... he's gone.

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