best pumkpins review I've seen

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2007

DaytimeDilemma wrote:

I like the Machina's as much as the next guy, but better than MCIS? Uhhh...that's like the "Frampton Comes Alive" of my generation. It's a fucking classic inside and out.

Oh it's a classic, no question. But speaking strictly about quality Machina I+II certainly rivals it.

DaytimeDilemma · July 2007

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Oh it's a classic, no question. But speaking strictly about quality Machina I+II certainly rivals it.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you there. Rivals? No way.

lalalalaaaaaaaa · July 2007

These reviews need to come with cliff notes..

The album is terrible, I just heard it today...very dissapointing. I was excited about new material from Corgan too.

::thumbs down::

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2007

DaytimeDilemma wrote:

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you there. Rivals? No way.

I know only 1/50 pumpkins fans or so 'get' Machina, but trust me, if or when it hits you it hits hard. Aside from a couple of less than great songs on both collections it's all gold.

Adore is a given, I can't figure out why so many people have a problem with it.

edit: The reason MCIS is a 'classic' and Machina is not is partly due to the way it appeals to people on so many levels. Machina is a pretty reclused album so to speak.

DaytimeDilemma · July 2007

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I know only 1/50 pumpkins fans or so 'get' Machina, but trust me, if or when it hits you it hits hard. Aside from a couple of less than great songs on both collections it's all gold.

Adore is a given, I can't figure out why so many people have a problem with it.

There is nothing to "get" about Machina. It's just not as good as their old shit. I hate when people say there is something to "get" about an album. When I put on an album, I listen. It either hits me or it doesn't. I shouldn't have to fucking study a rock album to understand it, especially when most of the songs are bland as hell. I like Everlasting Gaze, Crying Tree Of Mercury, Eye Of The Radio, This Time, and SIYL. The rest is pretty lame and don't stack up anywhere close to say Thru The Eyes Of Ruby, XYU, Love, Here Is No Why, etc. etc. If I have to somehow "get" an album, then in my eyes, it already blows.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2007

DaytimeDilemma wrote:

There is nothing to "get" about Machina. It's just not as good as their old shit. I hate when people say there is something to "get" about an album. When I put on an album, I listen. It either hits me or it doesn't. I shouldn't have to fucking study a rock album to understand it, especially when most of the songs are bland as hell. I like Everlasting Gaze, Crying Tree Of Mercury, Eye Of The Radio, This Time, and SIYL. The rest is pretty lame and don't stack up anywhere close to say Thru The Eyes Of Ruby, XYU, Love, Here Is No Why, etc. etc. If I have to somehow "get" an album, then in my eyes, it already blows.

It took me over two years to finally "GET" (

) Machina. It's the kind of album that has to hit you in just the right mood and situation for you to connect with it. Happened to me, happened to a lot of my friends, it's not b.s.

Some people just aren't going to like it (that's you.)

itsevobaby · July 2007

reviews are just opinions from people who have come from different places, shared different experiences and taste things in a different way. i've followed billy's & the pumpkins career since gish & personally i love everything the they have ever done, including zeitgeist, very much so. call it an emotional aspect or whatever, what the fuck does it matter. i couldn't care less if somebody a thousand miles away doesn't like it, that carries absolutely zero weight with me, who are they to tell me what i should like? nor would i expect somebody else to like something just because i do. i prefer to make my own decisions & i expect others to have theirs, there's is no right or wrong answer here. that's my opinion. thank you billy & jimmy for giving me zeitgeist, i'm enjoying it immensely

bobasfeet · July 2007

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

The only thing more pretentious than Corgan is that review.

LOVE LOVE LOVE THAT STATEMENT...F ALL THE TRENDS..listen to what you like.

mrwalkerb · July 2007

DaytimeDilemma: I liked the review you posted and I think it address the actual albums more than the one I posted and work well together I really liked this part:

But Zeitgeist is more calculated, by-the-numbers, and devoid of human feeling than a summer-movie marketing plan. Whether it results in a blockbuster is beside the point; it does nothing to prevent commercial music from inching closer and closer to complete triviality, possibly even providing an extra push. For a band that – whether unwittingly, whether for the right or wrong reasons – assisted in the upheaval of popular culture not so long ago, Zeitgeist represents an artistic flame flickering

It just upsets me when people can't accept everything they like isn't fucking brilliant. Ever since I realized that I can like a band, shit even love a band and still not dig some of their stuff or even outright dislike records or eras (I'm looking at you R.E.M. like Reveal are you kidding? after the brilliance of Up and followed by Around the Sun you give me this?) I have been able to appreciate music I do like way more.

culot4 · July 2007

Warning: Any criticism regarding Smashing Pumpkins without expressed written consent from Pearl Jam and Toast will be subjected to fines and/ or imprisonment not to exceed 5 years and/or 250,000.

The deal with Zeigeist is this now that the initial impression has worn off and it has to stand on its own. Its an okay album with a few good songs. The standouts are United States ( or xyu 2) Bleeding the Orchid, and Pomp and Circumstances. There are some other good songs in there that aren't very strong lyrically. There is also some just plain old crap. There will never be another Siamese Dream but on the bright side there might not be another Machina or Zwan either. Going from bottom feeders to somewhere in the middle was a pretty big step.

darthvedder88 · July 2007

jsaso wrote:

oki doki

jsaso I agree with you, this isn't a review it's a bunch of bullshit. And for the record Zeitgeist fucking rocks!

lephty · July 2007

darthvedder88 wrote:

And for the record Zeitgeist fucking rocks!

couldn't agree more.. guitar driven awesomeness IMO. i couldn't get into adore.. i liked machina... but Zeitgeist is damn good and way better than either of the previously mentioned albums.

vmfury · July 2007

darthvedder88 wrote:

And for the record Zeitgeist fucking rocks!

I second that. They didn't skip a beat regardless of the 8 year break. Certainly speaks volumes.

Pearl Jam and toast · July 2007

culot4 wrote:

.. There will never be another Siamese Dream..

I think we can all agree with that.

facepollution · July 2007

Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.

It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?

Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.

So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.

Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.

I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.

More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?

Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!

sigh eternally · July 2007

LOOOOOL

Stephen Thomas Erlewine is my hero.

Edved82 · July 2007

facepollution wrote:

Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.

It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?

Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.

So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.

Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.

I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.

More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?

Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!

Just about got there! And you are spot-on. The only problems I have with Zeitgeist would be that the vocal production is a bit dodgy, and the slower songs are slightly lacking in emotion. But the album is worth the money just for Doomsday Clock and Bleeding the Orchid alone - plus getting to hear Jimmy Chamberlain in action. A seriously underrated drummer. If people would give Zeitgeist a chance, then they might be pleasantly surprised. I definitely dont understand why there's been so much negative publicity over it

darthvedder88 · July 2007

Ha!! Glad to see people are agreeing with me!! It seems overall though that the album is receiving mixed reviews. But even Siamese Dream faced criticism from some critics when it first came out. Oh well, who gives a fuck. I personally love the new record and would definately put it in the top 3 of all of Corgan's work.

Ten Dude · July 2007

Siamese Dream was their best album; it's one of the better albums of the 90s, IMO.

PJBliss · July 2007

facepollution wrote:

Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.

It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?

Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.

So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.

Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.

I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.

More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?

Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!

Very well put..I agree with you in many ways. Who knows how much these critics have bothered listening to the record.

best pumkpins review I've seen

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