Except for the shape and form of the conversation with Bobby and the remembering of it the episode before.
That had to do with Bobby dying....not Tony about to die.
It makes way more sense that Tony was reminiscing about Bobby seeing how he just died rather than Chase hinting that Tony was going to die because Tony was thinking about that conversation with bobby. That makes no sense to me at all. As the story line went, Bobby dies and Tony remembered about when Bobby talked about dying.
That had to do with Bobby dying....not Tony about to die.
It makes way more sense that Tony was reminiscing about Bobby seeing how he just died rather than Chase hinting that Tony was going to die because Tony was thinking about that conversation with bobby. That makes no sense to me at all. As the story line went, Bobby dies and Tony remembered about when Bobby talked about dying.
On the surface, yes. But if you look at the big picture, they were setting the viewers up for the scene going to black. It is foreshadowing. How can that not make sense at all?
On the surface, yes. But if you look at the big picture, they were setting the viewers up for the scene going to black. It is foreshadowing. How can that not make sense at all?
Because it was Tony who was having the memories. On all surfaces it only makes sense that he was reflecting on Bobby's life.
I think when Tony was lying in bed at the safe house he was not thinking about Bobby dying but rather thinking that because of everything going on that his number was close to being up and that's why he thought of the conversation with Bobby.
I think when Tony was lying in bed at the safe house he was not thinking about Bobby dying but rather thinking that because of everything going on that his number was close to being up and that's why he thought of the conversation with Bobby.
exactly...that, and i think the fact that he was clutching the assault rifle that bobby gave him as a birthday present was another reminder of that day upstate with bobby.
I think when Tony was lying in bed at the safe house he was not thinking about Bobby dying but rather thinking that because of everything going on that his number was close to being up and that's why he thought of the conversation with Bobby.
I think Tony died at the end
Of course he died. Once you look at the big picture from previous episodes it points more to him dying than anything else.
Yes, the assault rifle is a reminder of Bobby. He also was in a safehouse trying to save his own life, which in Holsten's he wasn't able to do.
On the surface, yes. But if you look at the big picture, they were setting the viewers up for the scene going to black. It is foreshadowing. How can that not make sense at all?
It makes sense, yes, but it's a stretch to apply it. I can definitely see where some would get that idea, but it's not obvious, even when you look at all of the symbolism and 'big picture'. Certainly a valid interpretation though, and I think that's exactly what Chase wanted.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Of course he died. Once you look at the big picture from previous episodes it points more to him dying than anything else.
Yes, the assault rifle is a reminder of Bobby. He also was in a safehouse trying to save his own life, which in Holsten's he wasn't able to do.
One could also say that with all of the talk about the FBI and rats throughout the entire series, and with his comment to Carm at the end, you could say that he gets indicted the next day and goes to jail. Just as equally valid as him getting shot. Just because they put all of these menacing shots in at the end doesn't mean it logically led to his murder. It was an obvious set up by the director. Putting the dread on us. One last reminder about the life they live, one last reminder about the amazing drama and setup this show has given us and one last look at the uncertainty Tony continually faces.
It just represented that at ANY moment he could be clipped, he could be indicted or things could just go on like normal. That was the 'meaning' of the final scene, and honestly it couldn't have gone anywhere else. If he was shot at the end, people would complain that it was too abrupt...'what happened next?!?!'. If he was indicted people would say....'What happened next?!?!'. Doing it the way they did was amazing. The show could have ended with Tony and Junior. That was the 'present' that Chase gave us to end the series. The episode ended there. The final 5 minutes was sort of an homage to us and to the series. It showed the best of the show, the tension, etc. We were all on the edge of our seats, not knowing what to expect, and then ... bam. 'We didn't even see it coming'. Those flashbacks were more about us and our 'whacking' from the Soprano world than any 'hollywood' ending brought upon Tony.
Don't search too hard for finality....you'll miss the beauty of the ending.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
One could also say that with all of the talk about the FBI and rats throughout the entire series, and with his comment to Carm at the end, you could say that he gets indicted the next day and goes to jail. Just as equally valid as him getting shot. Just because they put all of these menacing shots in at the end doesn't mean it logically led to his murder. It was an obvious set up by the director. Putting the dread on us. One last reminder about the life they live, one last reminder about the amazing drama and setup this show has given us and one last look at the uncertainty Tony continually faces.
It just represented that at ANY moment he could be clipped, he could be indicted or things could just go on like normal. That was the 'meaning' of the final scene, and honestly it couldn't have gone anywhere else. If he was shot at the end, people would complain that it was too abrupt...'what happened next?!?!'. If he was indicted people would say....'What happened next?!?!'. Doing it the way they did was amazing. The show could have ended with Tony and Junior. That was the 'present' that Chase gave us to end the series. The episode ended there. The final 5 minutes was sort of an homage to us and to the series. It showed the best of the show, the tension, etc. We were all on the edge of our seats, not knowing what to expect, and then ... bam. 'We didn't even see it coming'. Those flashbacks were more about us and our 'whacking' from the Soprano world than any 'hollywood' ending brought upon Tony.
Don't search too hard for finality....you'll miss the beauty of the ending.
right on. i gotta agree with this.
"PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
~Michael Bolton
It makes sense, yes, but it's a stretch to apply it. I can definitely see where some would get that idea, but it's not obvious, even when you look at all of the symbolism and 'big picture'. Certainly a valid interpretation though, and I think that's exactly what Chase wanted.
It's not a stretch to think that he got shot. It is the most obvious choice of the things that could have happened.
It's not a stretch to think that he got shot. It is the most obvious choice of the things that could have happened.
Matter of opinion. That 'stretch' was easy for you, but not for everyone. You still had to make the stretch. None and I mean none of the people in that ice cream shop gave ANY indication that they were there for anything other than a meal. The dread came from the direction and the fact that we are so familiar with the danger of that lifestyle. Chase showed that to us for one last time. The jump to murder was made on the part of you and many other viewers. The flashbacks to Bobby in the canoe can be applied to just Bobby, to Tony as you say, or to us the viewer. All equally as valid.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
I was thinking about the ending while at work today. And I still think it was perfect IMO. That Journey song is stuck in my head. LOL
Of course it was! The naysayers either never understood what the show was about and just focused on the tits and guns, or they are so ADD that they NEED some big 'payoff' instant gratification scene that the media has so conditioned us to expect. Whatever happened to letting things simmer, contemplation and appreciation of artistic vision?
I applaud Chase for not giving in to the lowest common denominator viewer and sticking to the integrity that this show has always been about. Reality.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Of course it was! The naysayers either never understood what the show was about and just focused on the tits and guns, or they are so ADD that they NEED some big 'payoff' instant gratification scene that the media has so conditioned us to expect. Whatever happened to letting things simmer, contemplation and appreciation of artistic vision?
I applaud Chase for not giving in to the lowest common denominator viewer and sticking to the integrity that this show has always been about. Reality.
It was a show about a mobster and his family. And that's how it ended. Tony with his family. PERFECT
i meant to post this article from vanity fair before the finale, but if you haven't read you should.....it gives a lot of insight into how chase developed the show and for me after reading this the ending makes perfect sense......(btw, it's quite a long read).....:)
Matter of opinion. That 'stretch' was easy for you, but not for everyone. You still had to make the stretch. None and I mean none of the people in that ice cream shop gave ANY indication that they were there for anything other than a meal. The dread came from the direction and the fact that we are so familiar with the danger of that lifestyle. Chase showed that to us for one last time. The jump to murder was made on the part of you and many other viewers. The flashbacks to Bobby in the canoe can be applied to just Bobby, to Tony as you say, or to us the viewer. All equally as valid.
It is not a stretch. What are the choices of what could happen?
Tony died
FBI got Tony
Tony had dinner with his family
Which one would make everything go black? Tony dying
Which one makes the most sense with the "everything goes to black" mentioned AGAIN the 2nd to last episode? Tony dying
Why would the screen go black if the FBI got him? It wouldn't
Why would the screen go black if he was having dinner? It wouldn't
The only thing that occurred to me that it could be otherwise would be Tony passing out. I am 90% sure it is Tony dying and 10% passing out.
Nothing else explains the sudden blackout.
No stretch to think that, just simple logic based on what Chase gave us. Chase himself said everything you need is right there. You are wrong to say no one gave any indication they were there for anything but a meal. The guys that were focused on looked at Tony repeated times.
i meant to post this article from vanity fair before the finale, but if you haven't read you should.....it gives a lot of insight into how chase developed the show and for me after reading this the ending makes perfect sense......(btw, it's quite a long read).....:)
It is not a stretch. What are the choices of what could happen?
Tony died
FBI got Tony
Tony had dinner with his family
The ONLY choice was Tony had dinner with his family. That was the scene, cut and dry. Anything you infer afterwards is your own imagination, exactly how Chase wanted it. Obviously he didn't get nabbed by the fbi right then, and there was no indication anyone in there was after him. Just great suspenseful direction by the Soprano creators to make a point.
Which one would make everything go black? Tony dying
A sudden blackout means death? Umm, how about it meant the end of the show? lol Maybe the 10 seconds were a time to reflect? I don't recall anyone saying 'everything goes to black'. It wasn't in the scene with Bobby/Tony in the canoe, and for that matter THAT flashback was in reference specifically to Bobby's death, not Tony's.
Which one makes the most sense with the "everything goes to black" mentioned AGAIN the 2nd to last episode? Tony dying
Again, that's in reference to Bobby. It would be too redundant and against the show's grain to use it in reference to Tony's death. Too simplistic thinking.
Why would the screen go black if the FBI got him? It wouldn't
Why would the screen go black if he was having dinner? It wouldn't
The only thing that occurred to me that it could be otherwise would be Tony passing out. I am 90% sure it is Tony dying and 10% passing out.
Completely arbitrary percentages, but whatever. Tony passing out? Another possibility, but again no more or less likely than him being shot, life going on or the fbi indicting him.
I never said the screen going black represented ANYTHING at all, not the fbi nor death nor whatever. I said it was implied that LATER in the Sopranos timeline he could get indicted (i.e. the next morning) or what have you.
No stretch to think that, just simple logic based on what Chase gave us. Chase himself said everything you need is right there. You are wrong to say no one gave any indication they were there for anything but a meal. The guys that were focused on looked at Tony repeated times.
Chase said everything you need is right there, because it's exactly what we see. Nobody with a gun, no evil looks, no recurring Phil Leotardo henchmen, no fbi spies, nothing! Just Tony with his family at peace for a few minutes in a world of stress and suspicion. There life goes on, but ours was ended, and ended abruptly. No grand death scene and no illusion to such. Accept it.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
The ONLY choice was Tony had dinner with his family. That was the scene, cut and dry. Anything you infer afterwards is your own imagination, exactly how Chase wanted it. Obviously he didn't get nabbed by the fbi right then, and there was no indication anyone in there was after him. Just great suspenseful direction by the Soprano creators to make a point.
A sudden blackout means death? Umm, how about it meant the end of the show? lol Maybe the 10 seconds were a time to reflect? I don't recall anyone saying 'everything goes to black'. It wasn't in the scene with Bobby/Tony in the canoe, and for that matter THAT flashback was in reference specifically to Bobby's death, not Tony's.
Again, that's in reference to Bobby. It would be too redundant and against the show's grain to use it in reference to Tony's death. Too simplistic thinking.
Completely arbitrary percentages, but whatever. Tony passing out? Another possibility, but again no more or less likely than him being shot, life going on or the fbi indicting him.
I never said the screen going black represented ANYTHING at all, not the fbi nor death nor whatever. I said it was implied that LATER in the Sopranos timeline he could get indicted (i.e. the next morning) or what have you.
Chase said everything you need is right there, because it's exactly what we see. Nobody with a gun, no evil looks, no recurring Phil Leotardo henchmen, no fbi spies, nothing! Just Tony with his family at peace for a few minutes in a world of stress and suspicion. There life goes on, but ours was ended, and ended abruptly. No grand death scene and no illusion to such. Accept it.
I don't or at this time can't read all your comments cause I match my name right now. But I know I would agree with it all. Ladies and Gentlemen this is a Sopranos fans. hehe
I don't or at this time can't read all your comments cause I match my name right now. But I know I would agree with it all. Ladies and Gentlemen this is a Sopranos fans. hehe
Thanks.
Yeah, I spend a lot of time reading about it and have seen all the episodes a few times. There so much subtleness you miss on just one viewing or if you're half paying attention. It's really frustrating reading all the papers and listening to Howard Stern rate the episode and review it, because half the things they say are either just blatantly factually wrong or show that they've hardly been paying attention to the show. I know maybe I'm TOO into it, but if you're going to out and out pan a show, say it sucks or question the artistic integrity of it, at least understand what you're talking about! (anyone who's heard Stern knows it's the worst with this - they couldn't even remember who Carlo was, yet they panned it :rolleyes: )
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Hey guys,
I've never watched the Sopranos. Not because i didn't like it, but because i just never got involved from the start and then just lost track over the years. I know the hype was huge for the finale, so can someone explain to me in a summary what happened at the end? This is a big thread to read, so if someone could just summarise that'd be great.
"This town deserves a better class of criminal... and I'm gonna give it to them."
Hey guys,
I've never watched the Sopranos. Not because i didn't like it, but because i just never got involved from the start and then just lost track over the years. I know the hype was huge for the finale, so can someone explain to me in a summary what happened at the end? This is a big thread to read, so if someone could just summarise that'd be great.
All night thing we are all fans, why does there have to be a degree in fansize, its fucking tv, master framer as usual you know everything about everyhting and diesrespect people to prove it.
Every thing in these threads is posted over at sopranoland .com, someone actualy saw the episode in its entirety and had it posted a week earlier.
I spent time in east caldwell working in march and feb, a lot of the locals watched the taping.
THERE WERE 3 ENDINGS TAPED THAT ALL COULD HAVE FIT IN THE LAST 10 MINS.
All this stuff is also posted at sopranoland measage board and has been for weeks.
This stuff has been out there.
So to tell people they are wrong on the hes dead opinion, or the family crossfire is crazy, the director wanted this.
Of course if theres a movie tony will be back but that is tv.
Gandolaphini quoted as saying that character is dead to me
The earlier stuff in the shows.
Chase wanted the speculation, he got it.
Too sit here and tell people they are wrong based on webpage bullshit is arogant.
The writer put it out there, the family had been out to eat many of times and tony was never that nervous, it is good stuff for people to invision their own take.
Its called anxiety, many people have it and the show was based on it.
Telling people they are not fans or dont know the show is rediculoius, they could have watched the last episode and came up with these same theories.
Great show.
Great series.
great directing, great acting, how many fucking scenarios could they have over ten years.
there was over 80 hours of tape. Of course the show was great in the first 15 episodes it came out of knowwhere, following the scripts and killing than reinventing characters is not an easy task.
I honestly think when buscemi joined the series the filmaking itself got better, more anxiety more suspence, and better scene changes.
Comments
Except for the shape and form of the conversation with Bobby and the remembering of it the episode before.
Bingo!
It makes way more sense that Tony was reminiscing about Bobby seeing how he just died rather than Chase hinting that Tony was going to die because Tony was thinking about that conversation with bobby. That makes no sense to me at all. As the story line went, Bobby dies and Tony remembered about when Bobby talked about dying.
On the surface, yes. But if you look at the big picture, they were setting the viewers up for the scene going to black. It is foreshadowing. How can that not make sense at all?
Tony didn't die.
I think Tony died at the end
exactly...that, and i think the fact that he was clutching the assault rifle that bobby gave him as a birthday present was another reminder of that day upstate with bobby.
"and onward goes this thing of ours."
Of course he died. Once you look at the big picture from previous episodes it points more to him dying than anything else.
Yes, the assault rifle is a reminder of Bobby. He also was in a safehouse trying to save his own life, which in Holsten's he wasn't able to do.
It makes sense, yes, but it's a stretch to apply it. I can definitely see where some would get that idea, but it's not obvious, even when you look at all of the symbolism and 'big picture'. Certainly a valid interpretation though, and I think that's exactly what Chase wanted.
nowadays hits you when you're young
One could also say that with all of the talk about the FBI and rats throughout the entire series, and with his comment to Carm at the end, you could say that he gets indicted the next day and goes to jail. Just as equally valid as him getting shot. Just because they put all of these menacing shots in at the end doesn't mean it logically led to his murder. It was an obvious set up by the director. Putting the dread on us. One last reminder about the life they live, one last reminder about the amazing drama and setup this show has given us and one last look at the uncertainty Tony continually faces.
It just represented that at ANY moment he could be clipped, he could be indicted or things could just go on like normal. That was the 'meaning' of the final scene, and honestly it couldn't have gone anywhere else. If he was shot at the end, people would complain that it was too abrupt...'what happened next?!?!'. If he was indicted people would say....'What happened next?!?!'. Doing it the way they did was amazing. The show could have ended with Tony and Junior. That was the 'present' that Chase gave us to end the series. The episode ended there. The final 5 minutes was sort of an homage to us and to the series. It showed the best of the show, the tension, etc. We were all on the edge of our seats, not knowing what to expect, and then ... bam. 'We didn't even see it coming'. Those flashbacks were more about us and our 'whacking' from the Soprano world than any 'hollywood' ending brought upon Tony.
Don't search too hard for finality....you'll miss the beauty of the ending.
nowadays hits you when you're young
right on. i gotta agree with this.
~Michael Bolton
It's not a stretch to think that he got shot. It is the most obvious choice of the things that could have happened.
Matter of opinion. That 'stretch' was easy for you, but not for everyone. You still had to make the stretch. None and I mean none of the people in that ice cream shop gave ANY indication that they were there for anything other than a meal. The dread came from the direction and the fact that we are so familiar with the danger of that lifestyle. Chase showed that to us for one last time. The jump to murder was made on the part of you and many other viewers. The flashbacks to Bobby in the canoe can be applied to just Bobby, to Tony as you say, or to us the viewer. All equally as valid.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Of course it was! The naysayers either never understood what the show was about and just focused on the tits and guns, or they are so ADD that they NEED some big 'payoff' instant gratification scene that the media has so conditioned us to expect. Whatever happened to letting things simmer, contemplation and appreciation of artistic vision?
I applaud Chase for not giving in to the lowest common denominator viewer and sticking to the integrity that this show has always been about. Reality.
nowadays hits you when you're young
It was a show about a mobster and his family. And that's how it ended. Tony with his family. PERFECT
It is not a stretch. What are the choices of what could happen?
Tony died
FBI got Tony
Tony had dinner with his family
Which one would make everything go black? Tony dying
Which one makes the most sense with the "everything goes to black" mentioned AGAIN the 2nd to last episode? Tony dying
Why would the screen go black if the FBI got him? It wouldn't
Why would the screen go black if he was having dinner? It wouldn't
The only thing that occurred to me that it could be otherwise would be Tony passing out. I am 90% sure it is Tony dying and 10% passing out.
Nothing else explains the sudden blackout.
No stretch to think that, just simple logic based on what Chase gave us. Chase himself said everything you need is right there. You are wrong to say no one gave any indication they were there for anything but a meal. The guys that were focused on looked at Tony repeated times.
I bought that issue. It is a great read.
The ONLY choice was Tony had dinner with his family. That was the scene, cut and dry. Anything you infer afterwards is your own imagination, exactly how Chase wanted it. Obviously he didn't get nabbed by the fbi right then, and there was no indication anyone in there was after him. Just great suspenseful direction by the Soprano creators to make a point.
A sudden blackout means death? Umm, how about it meant the end of the show? lol Maybe the 10 seconds were a time to reflect? I don't recall anyone saying 'everything goes to black'. It wasn't in the scene with Bobby/Tony in the canoe, and for that matter THAT flashback was in reference specifically to Bobby's death, not Tony's.
Again, that's in reference to Bobby. It would be too redundant and against the show's grain to use it in reference to Tony's death. Too simplistic thinking.
Completely arbitrary percentages, but whatever. Tony passing out? Another possibility, but again no more or less likely than him being shot, life going on or the fbi indicting him.
I never said the screen going black represented ANYTHING at all, not the fbi nor death nor whatever. I said it was implied that LATER in the Sopranos timeline he could get indicted (i.e. the next morning) or what have you.
Chase said everything you need is right there, because it's exactly what we see. Nobody with a gun, no evil looks, no recurring Phil Leotardo henchmen, no fbi spies, nothing! Just Tony with his family at peace for a few minutes in a world of stress and suspicion. There life goes on, but ours was ended, and ended abruptly. No grand death scene and no illusion to such. Accept it.
nowadays hits you when you're young
I don't or at this time can't read all your comments cause I match my name right now. But I know I would agree with it all.
Thanks.
Yeah, I spend a lot of time reading about it and have seen all the episodes a few times. There so much subtleness you miss on just one viewing or if you're half paying attention. It's really frustrating reading all the papers and listening to Howard Stern rate the episode and review it, because half the things they say are either just blatantly factually wrong or show that they've hardly been paying attention to the show. I know maybe I'm TOO into it, but if you're going to out and out pan a show, say it sucks or question the artistic integrity of it, at least understand what you're talking about! (anyone who's heard Stern knows it's the worst with this - they couldn't even remember who Carlo was, yet they panned it :rolleyes: )
nowadays hits you when you're young
I've never watched the Sopranos. Not because i didn't like it, but because i just never got involved from the start and then just lost track over the years. I know the hype was huge for the finale, so can someone explain to me in a summary what happened at the end? This is a big thread to read, so if someone could just summarise that'd be great.
read this
"and onward goes this thing of ours."
Thanks for that, it was just what i was looking for. And dammit, now i'm interested in watching the show! That's a lot to catch up on.
roughly 86 hours worth.
"and onward goes this thing of ours."
So i just need to find a few days where i don't need to sleep, eat, go to the toilet, or move in the slightest.
just do lots of blow, keep a cooler full of beer and water in the room along with a bedpan and a piss bottle and you'll be fine.
"and onward goes this thing of ours."
Every thing in these threads is posted over at sopranoland .com, someone actualy saw the episode in its entirety and had it posted a week earlier.
I spent time in east caldwell working in march and feb, a lot of the locals watched the taping.
THERE WERE 3 ENDINGS TAPED THAT ALL COULD HAVE FIT IN THE LAST 10 MINS.
All this stuff is also posted at sopranoland measage board and has been for weeks.
This stuff has been out there.
So to tell people they are wrong on the hes dead opinion, or the family crossfire is crazy, the director wanted this.
Of course if theres a movie tony will be back but that is tv.
Gandolaphini quoted as saying that character is dead to me
The earlier stuff in the shows.
Chase wanted the speculation, he got it.
Too sit here and tell people they are wrong based on webpage bullshit is arogant.
The writer put it out there, the family had been out to eat many of times and tony was never that nervous, it is good stuff for people to invision their own take.
Its called anxiety, many people have it and the show was based on it.
Telling people they are not fans or dont know the show is rediculoius, they could have watched the last episode and came up with these same theories.
Great show.
Great series.
great directing, great acting, how many fucking scenarios could they have over ten years.
there was over 80 hours of tape. Of course the show was great in the first 15 episodes it came out of knowwhere, following the scripts and killing than reinventing characters is not an easy task.
I honestly think when buscemi joined the series the filmaking itself got better, more anxiety more suspence, and better scene changes.
no more shows