If you have something thats perfect (religion) being taken in by something that is not perfect (humans) consequently it would make the perfect thing not perfect...
do you know that Quaran, the holy book of islam, claims that it cannot be changed anyway, not even a word of it, because it is Allah's word and Allah protects it from being changed. Here is the perfect religion for you, with the personal insurance of god himself but still results speak louder than the cause.
I still say, welcome to atheism. I am stubborn bastard
Words can be understood in many ways. They don't have to be changed.
If you have something thats perfect (religion) being taken in by something that is not perfect (humans) consequently it would make the perfect thing not perfect...
that is exactly what I am talking about. And you think god cannot foresee this. Why not send a prophecy every 50 years then. you have 6 billion candidates to choose from.
"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
that is exactly what I am talking about. And you think god cannot foresee this. Why not send a prophecy every 50 years then. you have 6 billion candidates to choose from.
I wouldn't know as I do not know what God's plan is if he/she does have one. I am just analysing the logic.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Honestly, I have not heard of such an insurance given but for the debate...
the insurance in this case is with regards to the book not changing not with regards to people misinterpreting it.
that's the key I think. If you say things that are open to be misinterpreted, you just let it be so, just let your words lose its real meanings and not interfere and since you have to power to see that this will happen, why bother and say those things in the first instance. or why create humans that would not misinterpret their creator's words. Wouldn't it be better than what we see today.
"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
that's the key I think. If you say things that are open to be misinterpreted, you just let it be so, just let your words lose its real meanings and not interfere and since you have to power to see that this will happen, why bother and say those things in the first instance. or why create humans that would not misinterpret their creator's words. Wouldn't it be better than what we see today.
Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer
Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer
If you ask me or like some other people we are machines, yet we are all different.
We've discovered the secret of life.
Francis Crick
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer
ehe, this is good. but religion only supplies the basic lines and rules to obey but leaves your life to you to live it anyway as long as you obey the basics. You can be a man who has not done a good deed for somebody else for your entire life but obey the other rules and I think you just miss the bonuses.
even with a perfect religion, I believe our world will be full of diversities.
Look, we still have three main religions that claim to come from the same god. three different religions...
"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
Take the teachings of Jesus Christ. Look how far his teaching have been distorted throughout history by mankind. What he preached could be considered perfect. Love thy neighbor and treat others as you wish to be treated. Simple and perfect, but it was mankind who took this and transformed it into what best fit his agenda.
Good point. I take away something completely different from the words of Jesus than the 'religious right' do.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
"Ted Haggard, the minister who was caught with a gay prostitute, has just finished a three-week sex addiction program. He says he is now 'completely heterosexual.' Haggard says he will prove he is completely heterosexual by having sex only with men who are completely heterosexual" --Conan O'Brien
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
ehe, this is good. but religion only supplies the basic lines and rules to obey but leaves your life to you to live it anyway as long as you obey the basics. You can be a man who has not done a good deed for somebody else for your entire life but obey the other rules and I think you just miss the bonuses.
even with a perfect religion, I believe our world will be full of diversities.
Look, we still have three main religions that claim to come from the same god. three different religions...
My initial debate wasn't about religions as they are today it was about the logic.. where it was stated that if God created a perfect religion why are they at the place they are now.. my answer was "the imperfections of humans"..
Regarding the 3 religions I am not a mass believer i hold my own set of beliefs but the case you state about a person going through life without doing any good deeds is not true. For example, 1 fundamental principle of Islam is zakat which means giving to the poor. Judiasm, Christianity, Buddhism and many others also have principles which involve the person doing good deeds.
My initial debate wasn't about religions as they are today it was about the logic.. where it was stated that if God created a perfect religion why are they at the place they are now.. my answer was "the imperfections of humans"..
Regarding the 3 religions I am not a mass believer i hold my own set of beliefs but the case you state about a person going through life without doing any good deeds is not true. For example, 1 fundamental principle of Islam is zakat which means giving to the poor. Judiasm, Christianity, Buddhism and many others also have principles which involve the person doing good deeds.
I see. but I think it is inevitable to come to the point where you ask "if a perfect religion was sent to imperfect humans so that they can or will abuse it, and yet it is very the same god who created imperfect humans, where is the logic? why all the hassle? And we are talking about an entity who has no limits to its powers. Of course, one may ask, if it has the power why not create perfect humans and not bother with any religion. I think there is no end to this. It just doesn't seem right when you think about the limitless power and the possibilities. I can't remember who said "If god didn't exist, we would have to invent it" but it is a perfect analysis of human nature.
ohh it was voltaire. what a perfect irony.
edit : and you don't go to hell for not giving zakat. to be a real muslim "you just need to believe in Allah and believe muhammed is his prophet (ehe someone insured himself here). even if you are a murderer, criminal, thiev, you only spend some time in hell until you are clear of your sins and go to heaven. If you believe in god and his prophet but stay neutral, you still go to heaven. Pretty easy actually to get a ticket to heaven.
"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." Robert Pirsig
so this woman teaches in a muslim country and it doesn't occur to her to seek someone's advice on whether applying the name of the prophet to an inanimate object might cause a problem, knowing how touchy muslims can be when it comes to bringing their religion into disrepute.
now before you all jump on my head i think in this case someone should just lighten up.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I see. but I think it is inevitable to come to the point where you ask "if a perfect religion was sent to imperfect humans so that they can or will abuse it, and yet it is very the same god who created imperfect humans, where is the logic? why all the hassle? And we are talking about an entity who has no limits to its powers. Of course, one may ask, if it has the power why not create perfect humans and not bother with any religion. I think there is no end to this. It just doesn't seem right when you think about the limitless power and the possibilities. I can't remember who said "If god didn't exist, we would have to invent it" but it is a perfect analysis of human nature.
ohh it was voltaire. what a perfect irony.
I agree there are an infinite set of possibilities. In the end it is the differences in humans that dictate the differences in beliefs.
so this woman teaches in a muslim country and it doesn't occur to her to seek someone's advice on whether applying the name of the prophet to an inanimate object might cause a problem, knowing how touchy muslims can be when it comes to bringing their religion into disrepute.
now before you all jump on my head i think in this case someone should just lighten up.
She's getting 15 days (5 days already served) and deportation. I think she'll be happy they are paying for her plane ticket out of there.
So an all loving god sends the people/souls he allegedly loves and created in his own image, to hell; for not believing in him or following him? Wow, what an egomaniac! Exactly what kind of love would that be?
"Ted Haggard, the minister who was caught with a gay prostitute, has just finished a three-week sex addiction program. He says he is now 'completely heterosexual.' Haggard says he will prove he is completely heterosexual by having sex only with men who are completely heterosexual" --Conan O'Brien
Comments
If you have something thats perfect (religion) being taken in by something that is not perfect (humans) consequently it would make the perfect thing not perfect...
Words can be understood in many ways. They don't have to be changed.
I wouldn't know as I do not know what God's plan is if he/she does have one. I am just analysing the logic.
Honestly, I have not heard of such an insurance given but for the debate...
the insurance in this case is with regards to the book not changing not with regards to people misinterpreting it.
To be honest I don't believe that myself but I am arguing the logic with regards to perfection/imperfection.
Not really.. it would be like living in a machine world where everyone is exactly the same.. and we wouldnt be having this debate because we agree on every single point the world has to offer
If you ask me or like some other people we are machines, yet we are all different.
We've discovered the secret of life.
Francis Crick
even with a perfect religion, I believe our world will be full of diversities.
Look, we still have three main religions that claim to come from the same god. three different religions...
Good point. I take away something completely different from the words of Jesus than the 'religious right' do.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
My initial debate wasn't about religions as they are today it was about the logic.. where it was stated that if God created a perfect religion why are they at the place they are now.. my answer was "the imperfections of humans"..
Regarding the 3 religions I am not a mass believer i hold my own set of beliefs but the case you state about a person going through life without doing any good deeds is not true. For example, 1 fundamental principle of Islam is zakat which means giving to the poor. Judiasm, Christianity, Buddhism and many others also have principles which involve the person doing good deeds.
ohh it was voltaire. what a perfect irony.
edit : and you don't go to hell for not giving zakat. to be a real muslim "you just need to believe in Allah and believe muhammed is his prophet (ehe someone insured himself here). even if you are a murderer, criminal, thiev, you only spend some time in hell until you are clear of your sins and go to heaven. If you believe in god and his prophet but stay neutral, you still go to heaven. Pretty easy actually to get a ticket to heaven.
now before you all jump on my head i think in this case someone should just lighten up.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I agree there are an infinite set of possibilities. In the end it is the differences in humans that dictate the differences in beliefs.
She's getting 15 days (5 days already served) and deportation. I think she'll be happy they are paying for her plane ticket out of there.
plus she'll get to sell her story to the very reputable british tabloid press.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and write a book about it in a years time haha
I say it'll be called "My fifteen days in hell"
he gives you a choice, you have made yours
hey, if it wasn't for us you would be singing heil hitler
now, THAT is funny!
OMFG!!! please do not try and tell me the US won WW2 all on their own, you'll only embarass yourself.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Don't argue with him he will slap his head, roll his eyes and tell you he disagrees. He did that to me before.
damn cate, yr eyballs going?
but while yr at it, please tell us about ww2...and how the u.s. didn't do shit, ok?
why argue with you? we disagree
so what?