'Tell us who the terrorists are if you want the doctor'

Collin

FiveB247x wrote:

Main my point which really is the underlaying factor in all your questions is the fact that violence isn't the answer. It doesn't matter who started, did what or killed x numebr more then the other half. This problem has been going on for 50+ yrs.. both sides are wrong (some in more cases than others) and neither are innocent of any wrong-doing. In this time frame, both sides really need to stop the problems and actions which cause the other half to react with violence. Whether it's Israeli army attacks or Palestinian terror groups - the end of such things would break the cycle of violence. It doesn't matter which side makes the first move to peace (process), but once they do, the other half will follow in kind. It's what occured during the Oslo Accords (closest we've seen to a real, longterm peace agreement) and it can happen again. Merely pointing fingers, passing blame or making unrealistic demands of the other half isn't an offer which will lead to such a peace deal. If both sides sit on their hands and wait for the other to do x, y and z, the cycle merely continues. At some point in time, you have to ask yourself, is this more about deciding blame and saying who's more right or wrong or is it about creating a peace in which both can live in peace?

I agree violence isn't the answer. But the context of the issue is important. It's not merely pointing fingers. It is a fact that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land. And what's unrealistic about wanting your land back? I know, Israel will never accept that and will never give the land back. They consider it theirs.

I think as long as you don't address the core issue (the who started it, which you deem unimportant) you will never be able to break the cycle.

That being said, I realise it's not simple. You have two opposing views and hatred on both sides. Violence will indeed make things worse, it will lead to more hatred and more violence. So, I agree... one side needs to stop the violence now and hope the other side stops as well. But I think there's only one nation that can truly stop the cycle, not just the cycle of violence, but the whole cycle of problems.

You talk about a situation in which both parties can live in peace. I'm sure most Palestinians just want a situation in which they can live in their homes.

I'm not very optimisitc about the whole thing. I think it will get worse before it gets better.

fuck

You know, Five, for someone who preaches that fights only exist because people "respond" to eachother, you seem to be complaining about you and I having the same discussions repeated over and over when, in fact, it can't take place without you "responding" to me.



take your own advice one in a while if you want to be taken seriously.

fuck

Collin wrote:

I agree violence isn't the answer. But the context of the issue is important. It's not merely pointing fingers. It is a fact that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land. And what's unrealistic about wanting your land back? I know, Israel will never accept that and will never give the land back. They consider it theirs.

I think as long as you don't address the core issue (the who started it, which you deem unimportant) you will never be able to break the cycle.

That being said, I realise it's not simple. You have two opposing views and hatred on both sides. Violence will indeed make things worse, it will lead to more hatred and more violence. So, I agree... one side needs to stop the violence now and hope the other side stops as well. But I think there's only one nation that can truly stop the cycle, not just the cycle of violence, but the whole cycle of problems.

You talk about a situation in which both parties can live in peace. I'm sure most Palestinians just want a situation in which they can live in their homes.

I'm not very optimisitc about the whole thing. I think it will get worse before it gets better.

The problem is that he seems to disregard the occupation in general.

Five, I do not know why you seem to insinuate this is a war with equal sides when, in fact, this is an occupation.

I'm sure people told the French during the Nazi Occupation, and the Algerians during the French occupation, and even the Americans during the revolution to just "stop the violence" but unfortunately in many cases such as these, only one side has the obligation to stop the violence and look for peace - that is, the occupier.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

cincybearcat wrote:

How exactly can any poster here take away another poster's "freedom of speech"...please, do tell.

Only the mods can take away their ability to post here...does that take away their freedom of speech?

Just a pet peeve of mine, nevermind, back to the old outlaw (Israel's the devil) and Five (Both sides are wrong) show!!!!!!!!!

ok...infringe upon...

better?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

FiveB247x wrote:

Just to summarize and not repeat, here's some thread posted where we discussed these very topics already.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=295828

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=295599

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=294992

...don't read any more if they bother you.

I do the same with TV commercials...

fuck

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

...don't read any more if they bother you.

I do the same with TV commercials...

although I don't know why reporting news is such a terrible thing.

maybe he doesn't like reading ACTUAL news?

cincybearcat

_outlaw wrote:

although I don't know why reporting news is such a terrible thing.

maybe he doesn't like reading ACTUAL news?

You're the Palestinian equivalent of Fox News.

fuck

cincybearcat wrote:

You're the Palestinian equivalent of Fox News.

why? because I report true news? because I actually recognize an occupation taking place? because I take up an interest in such a case?

I don't know what's more pathetic: being called a terrorist, anti-semite, or the Palestinians Fox News by Israeli apologists.

tell you what, if someone ever occupies your land and kills/tortures your people, I'll take up an interest in that, too.

or would you rather me not?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

cincybearcat wrote:

You're the Palestinian equivalent of Fox News.

Although I don't necessarily agree with that, it's a particularly good one liner...

cincybearcat

_outlaw wrote:

why? because I report true news? because I actually recognize an occupation taking place? because I take up an interest in such a case?

I don't know what's more pathetic: being called a terrorist, anti-semite, or the Palestinians Fox News by Israeli apologists.

tell you what, if someone ever occupies your land and kills/tortures your people, I'll take up an interest in that, too.

or would you rather me not?

Because you're a no spin zone of course.

FiveB247x

You seem to be confusing or projecting your own take on my point here. I do not care what they are posting nor do I care about the content of their statements. Their message is their own and that's fine. But why must we have 100 posts saying the exact same message.... and I don't mean a variation or conversation discussing different aspects or such, I mean the same exact messages? Do we need 100 threads and posts from the same people all stating the same exact arguement, points and counterpoints back and forth? You think I'm complaining because I don't like their message, when in fact, I've just stated otherwise... but please twist my comments some more at the sake of hearing yourself back your biased arguements.

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

...don't read any more if they bother you.

I do the same with TV commercials...