No, it doesn't. At all. Sorry. You can eat very well, very cheaply, although this isn't what America would have you believe.
I emphatically disagree. i was a vegetarian for 12 years and during that time i still gained significant weight. (i'm not obese). i didn't eat meat, but that doesn't mean i ate well. Now, part of that is admittedly,my own fault, but the truth of the matter is that healthy eating costs a crapton more and requires a lot more time than Kraft macaroni and cheese or a drive through stop at McDonalds. Its just a fact. Poor folks havn't the time or money to shop at the local co op or prepare healthy meals. Its a sad truth. It isn't just poor people. In our culture people are doing everything on the go. The rat race just doesn't allow it. Our society is becoming fatter and fatter. It isn't exclusively poor folks, but it IS harder for them to maintain a healthy diet and lifestyle.
EDited to add: Why is the low fat, low sodium, healthier versions of a product always significantly more expensive than the fat laden versions of the same product?
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
i agree. you an get about a days worth of calories at McDonald's for 4 or 5 dollars. try doing that at Whole Foods.
Especially if you a single. Most grocery items have multiple servings per package. The only way that healthier groceries are cheaper is if you are cooking for a family. So if you are cooking for yourself, chances are some of it going to go to waste, or you will overeat.
I emphatically disagree. i was a vegetarian for 12 years and during that time i still gained significant weight. (i'm not obese). i didn't eat meat, but that doesn't mean i ate well. Now, part of that is admittedly,my own fault, but the truth of the matter is that healthy eating costs a crapton more and requires a lot more time than Kraft macaroni and cheese or a drive through stop at McDonalds. Its just a fact. Poor folks havn't the time or money to shop at the local co op or prepare healthy meals. Its a sad truth. It isn't just poor people. In our culture people are doing everything on the go. The rat race just doesn't allow it. Our society is becoming fatter and fatter. It isn't exclusively poor folks, but it IS harder for them to maintain a healthy diet and lifestyle.
EDited to add: Why is the low fat, low sodium, healthier versions of a product always significantly more expensive than the fat laden versions of the same product?
I'm always the "poorest" person I know in basically all my social groups. I'm also the one who eats the healthiest, too.
The problem for me came in when I was poor AND not coping well, as is often the case. Then I had to pay for such bad habits as smoking and drinking to excess as well. By quitting both - which can take herculean efforts, massive social support and a reasonably healthy environment which most homeless people do not have - I was more than able to afford much fresh produce, and healthier options in general.
In our imbalanced culture, we've lost sight of the basics, and therefore are essentially perched in a precarious place of general imbalance. True, simple healthy living entails living .... simply, which doesn't take much money.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
i agree. you an get about a days worth of calories at McDonald's for 4 or 5 dollars. try doing that at Whole Foods.
Especially if you a single. Most grocery items have multiple servings per package. The only way that healthier groceries are cheaper is if you are cooking for a family. So if you are cooking for yourself, chances are some of it going to go to waste, or you will overeat.
McDonalds where I live it's 7 dollars to get a supersized big mac combo (large coke 310c, Large Fry 570c, Big Mac 540c = 1420cals)
I could easily buy a 5lb bag of rice for $7.... 8000 calories
I could buy a just over a pound of almonds... 3000 calories
I could buy a couple dozen eggs.... 2160 calories
Certainly 30-50 grams of any protein source, and a couple loafs of bread can also be had for $7.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
i'll edit my previous statement to say "eat healthily and with some small degree of taste". a complete, diverse meal would be nice as well, not to mention the time it takes to cook.
i'll edit my previous statement to say "eat healthily and with some small degree of taste". a complete, diverse meal would be nice as well, not to mention the time it takes to cook.
When we're out of touch with the nature's wonders such as nuts, or with what seasonings (less than pennies a serving) do to rice, we've lost touch with natural law and simple, good living. And we pay the price as we always do when we are a slave to manmade structures, rather than the nature we are one with.
You did say: "you an get about a days worth of calories at McDonald's for 4 or 5 dollars. try doing that at Whole Foods".
Calories do not equal nutrition. What happens when we don't nourish our bodies? We become grey, fat and our health and our minds start to break down in all manner of ways. Look around you. You can probably see it it most people you know, given the standard western diet.
It's not the healthy real foods that cost money, it's the processed, nutritionless foods that "taste good" that do. Once we begin to get our taste buds back from the assault of msg, and we then attempt to eat processed foods, one becomes sensitive to the "danger" that flavours such unhealthy stuff.
I happen to love tasty flavourful foods. I cannot eat a meal that is flavourless. And there are ways to make amazing tasting healthy foods, when one is looking in that direction. Generally, most are not.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
i'll edit my previous statement to say "eat healthily and with some small degree of taste". a complete, diverse meal would be nice as well, not to mention the time it takes to cook.
Well for some pennies you add in spices, oils, substitute some cashews, with chicken and rice.
It basically boils down to two things...
A. You have to know how to cook. B. You have to take a small portion of time to appreciate the fact you can cook. The better you are at someting the quicker and easier it is. This way you can create less expensive better quality meals.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
When we're out of touch with the nature's wonders such as nuts, or with what seasonings (less than pennies a serving) do to rice, we've lost touch with natural law and simple, good living. And we pay the price as we always do when we are a slave to manmade structures, rather than the nature we are one with.
You did say: "you an get about a days worth of calories at McDonald's for 4 or 5 dollars. try doing that at Whole Foods".
Calories do not equal nutrition. What happens when we don't nourish our bodies? We become grey, fat and our health and our minds start to break down in all manner of ways. Look around you. You can probably see it it most people you know, given the standard western diet.
It's not the healthy real foods that cost money, it's the processed, nutritionless foods that "taste good" that do. Once we begin to get our taste buds back from the assault of msg, and we then attempt to eat processed foods, one becomes sensitive to the "danger" that flavours such unhealthy stuff.
I happen to love tasty flavourful foods. I cannot eat a meal that is flavourless. And there are ways to make amazing tasting healthy foods, when one is looking in that direction. Generally, most are not.
wow, I feel so dirty and cheap..........
Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......
Together we will float like angels.........
In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
And all God's people said... Amen. It costs too much money and requires way to much time to maintain a healthy diet. Brilliant post here.
thank you. at first i thought this was a sarcastic reply, but after reading your subsequent posts, i realized you meant it.
i was hoping that not everyone here was so out of touch with the world that they'd easily categorize homeless and/or poor people as simply "lazy".
it's that kind of thinking that keeps people from giving to food banks or volunteering their time at a soup kitchen or other sort of endeavor. i've done both, and i can tell you, i saw very few lazy people. and those i did see were actually the college students "volunteering" and then bitching when i told them to cut up the onions. :rolleyes:
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
I emphatically disagree. i was a vegetarian for 12 years and during that time i still gained significant weight. (i'm not obese). i didn't eat meat, but that doesn't mean i ate well. Now, part of that is admittedly,my own fault, but the truth of the matter is that healthy eating costs a crapton more and requires a lot more time than Kraft macaroni and cheese or a drive through stop at McDonalds.
When the fuck did I advocate McDonalds or Kraft macaroni cheese (or any macaroni cheese)? While we're at it, when did I advocate vegetarianism?
Dited to add: Why is the low fat, low sodium, healthier versions of a product always significantly more expensive than the fat laden versions of the same product?
Seriously? Because the manufacturers who make products emblazoned with 'low' this and 'low' that have a target demographic: usually rich men and women who are obsessed with keeping a swimsuit figure, or students... The last time I saw a stick of brocolli or a carrot, it didn't have 'low fat', 'low sodium' or 'low carb' emblazoned on it... and it wasn't expensive. But not many homeless people I've known (or rich people, for that matter) have been taught how to use a stick of brocolli or a carrot.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
The last time I saw a stick of brocolli or a carrot, it didn't have 'low fat', 'low sodium' or 'low carb' emblazoned on it... and it wasn't expensive. .
Maybe not, but i've seen plenty of carrots and broccolli labled as "organic", which if you're truly serious about health and environment are a far better choice than the carrot sticks you speak of, and they do wear a much heftier price sticker.
Besides just the price, are you prepared to prepare those carrots and broccoli in some way? Thats going to take some time that many people working two jobs to make the ends meet just don't have. Also, carrots and broccolli are great, but, good luck getting your kids to eat 'em. Especially completely unprepared.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Maybe not, but i've seen plenty of carrots and broccolli labled as "organic", which if you're truly serious about health and environment are a far better choice than the carrot sticks you speak of, and they do wear a much heftier price sticker.
Yes but I was contesting your previous argument: carrots vs. McDonalds. Doesn't matter whether they're 'organic' or not, any carrot is a good carrot in that context, and better than, and just as cheap as, Kraft or McDonalds. Furthermore, I would argue that 'organic' is much more to do with environmental awareness than health.
Besides just the price, are you prepared to prepare those carrots and broccoli in some way? Thats going to take some time that many people working two jobs to make the ends meet just don't have. Also, carrots and broccolli are great, but, good luck getting your kids to eat 'em. Especially completely unprepared.
All good points... but the previous argument was about homeless individuals, many of whom are staying in homeless hostels (i.e. not supporting a house as such), job-seeking yet without a current job, much of the time without a family, and with a lot of time on their hands to learn to cook given the proper support. It's not about money, but it is about education. Education to teach homeless people how to prepare quick and easy meals healthily without succumbing to corporate marketing schemes which advertise better health with a higher price tag.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
All good points... but the previous argument was about homeless individuals, many of whom are staying in homeless hostels (i.e. not supporting a house as such), job-seeking yet without a current job, much of the time without a family, and with a lot of time on their hands to learn to cook given the proper support. It's not about money, but it is about education. Education to teach homeless people how to prepare quick and easy meals healthily without succumbing to corporate marketing schemes which advertise better health with a higher price tag.
Do they not teach kids in school about nutrition and food anymore? I am trying to remember back to my school days and I am sure at sure at some point we learned at least a little bit about eating healthy. Maybe rather than teaching homeless people to cook and eat healthy, just teach all kids in elementary school. Plus that way people who aren't homeless but have no idea how to prepare meals and end up eating crap can learn about it too.
Do they not teach kids in school about nutrition and food anymore? I am trying to remember back to my school days and I am sure at sure at some point we learned at least a little bit about eating healthy. Maybe rather than teaching homeless people to cook and eat healthy, just teach all kids in elementary school. Plus that way people who aren't homeless but have no idea how to prepare meals and end up eating crap can learn about it too.
Yes, they do to some extent teach it in schools, and that's a great idea... The problem comes when kids become homeless because of family crisis and economic collapse, falling out of/being excluded from school very early, getting into crime... and therefore never having had access to mainstream education beyond a certain age. They get to a certain age and if they were taught anything at all about food preparation in first/elementary school, they can't recall it, and they've picked up a million bad habits since.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I am not homeless. However, I am a single mother of four on a low income. Eating healthily is not a problem for me or my children. Fruit, vegtables and basic foodstuffs are far, far cheaper than their processed counterparts. Sure they take more preparation than just bunging them in the microwave for a couple of minutes but thats the payoff.
Since my husband left we have halved our intake of meat and cut out all the pre-processed 'junk food' that he was obsessed with and as a consequence we are all healthier.
Yes, it takes more time, but it also taste better and is better for us and the environment.
The problem is that basic cooking/shopping skills are not being taught to children anymore. Parents don't have the time and schools don't have the money. Children grow up thinking it's normal to buy everything ready made and so they do the same.
Strange when you see the amount of cookery programmes on TV.
i wouldnt consider many homeless people lazy or mentally ill. i think for many, its just a routine or a way of thinking that people get locked into. I get that way too. Its hard to to change.
Comments
I emphatically disagree. i was a vegetarian for 12 years and during that time i still gained significant weight. (i'm not obese). i didn't eat meat, but that doesn't mean i ate well. Now, part of that is admittedly,my own fault, but the truth of the matter is that healthy eating costs a crapton more and requires a lot more time than Kraft macaroni and cheese or a drive through stop at McDonalds. Its just a fact. Poor folks havn't the time or money to shop at the local co op or prepare healthy meals. Its a sad truth. It isn't just poor people. In our culture people are doing everything on the go. The rat race just doesn't allow it. Our society is becoming fatter and fatter. It isn't exclusively poor folks, but it IS harder for them to maintain a healthy diet and lifestyle.
EDited to add: Why is the low fat, low sodium, healthier versions of a product always significantly more expensive than the fat laden versions of the same product?
Especially if you a single. Most grocery items have multiple servings per package. The only way that healthier groceries are cheaper is if you are cooking for a family. So if you are cooking for yourself, chances are some of it going to go to waste, or you will overeat.
I'm always the "poorest" person I know in basically all my social groups. I'm also the one who eats the healthiest, too.
The problem for me came in when I was poor AND not coping well, as is often the case. Then I had to pay for such bad habits as smoking and drinking to excess as well. By quitting both - which can take herculean efforts, massive social support and a reasonably healthy environment which most homeless people do not have - I was more than able to afford much fresh produce, and healthier options in general.
In our imbalanced culture, we've lost sight of the basics, and therefore are essentially perched in a precarious place of general imbalance. True, simple healthy living entails living .... simply, which doesn't take much money.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
McDonalds where I live it's 7 dollars to get a supersized big mac combo (large coke 310c, Large Fry 570c, Big Mac 540c = 1420cals)
I could easily buy a 5lb bag of rice for $7.... 8000 calories
I could buy a just over a pound of almonds... 3000 calories
I could buy a couple dozen eggs.... 2160 calories
Certainly 30-50 grams of any protein source, and a couple loafs of bread can also be had for $7.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
i'll edit my previous statement to say "eat healthily and with some small degree of taste". a complete, diverse meal would be nice as well, not to mention the time it takes to cook.
I am glad I read the thread here; yeah, good, healthy food is way more expensive than unhealthy food.
Together we will float like angels.........
In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
You did say: "you an get about a days worth of calories at McDonald's for 4 or 5 dollars. try doing that at Whole Foods".
Calories do not equal nutrition. What happens when we don't nourish our bodies? We become grey, fat and our health and our minds start to break down in all manner of ways. Look around you. You can probably see it it most people you know, given the standard western diet.
It's not the healthy real foods that cost money, it's the processed, nutritionless foods that "taste good" that do. Once we begin to get our taste buds back from the assault of msg, and we then attempt to eat processed foods, one becomes sensitive to the "danger" that flavours such unhealthy stuff.
I happen to love tasty flavourful foods. I cannot eat a meal that is flavourless. And there are ways to make amazing tasting healthy foods, when one is looking in that direction. Generally, most are not.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Well for some pennies you add in spices, oils, substitute some cashews, with chicken and rice.
It basically boils down to two things...
A. You have to know how to cook. B. You have to take a small portion of time to appreciate the fact you can cook. The better you are at someting the quicker and easier it is. This way you can create less expensive better quality meals.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
wow, I feel so dirty and cheap..........
Together we will float like angels.........
In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
Give it time....they will get hungry.....
Nuclear fission
thank you.
i was hoping that not everyone here was so out of touch with the world that they'd easily categorize homeless and/or poor people as simply "lazy".
it's that kind of thinking that keeps people from giving to food banks or volunteering their time at a soup kitchen or other sort of endeavor. i've done both, and i can tell you, i saw very few lazy people. and those i did see were actually the college students "volunteering" and then bitching when i told them to cut up the onions. :rolleyes:
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
When the fuck did I advocate McDonalds or Kraft macaroni cheese (or any macaroni cheese)? While we're at it, when did I advocate vegetarianism?
Seriously? Because the manufacturers who make products emblazoned with 'low' this and 'low' that have a target demographic: usually rich men and women who are obsessed with keeping a swimsuit figure, or students... The last time I saw a stick of brocolli or a carrot, it didn't have 'low fat', 'low sodium' or 'low carb' emblazoned on it... and it wasn't expensive. But not many homeless people I've known (or rich people, for that matter) have been taught how to use a stick of brocolli or a carrot.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Maybe not, but i've seen plenty of carrots and broccolli labled as "organic", which if you're truly serious about health and environment are a far better choice than the carrot sticks you speak of, and they do wear a much heftier price sticker.
Besides just the price, are you prepared to prepare those carrots and broccoli in some way? Thats going to take some time that many people working two jobs to make the ends meet just don't have. Also, carrots and broccolli are great, but, good luck getting your kids to eat 'em. Especially completely unprepared.
Yes but I was contesting your previous argument: carrots vs. McDonalds. Doesn't matter whether they're 'organic' or not, any carrot is a good carrot in that context, and better than, and just as cheap as, Kraft or McDonalds. Furthermore, I would argue that 'organic' is much more to do with environmental awareness than health.
All good points... but the previous argument was about homeless individuals, many of whom are staying in homeless hostels (i.e. not supporting a house as such), job-seeking yet without a current job, much of the time without a family, and with a lot of time on their hands to learn to cook given the proper support. It's not about money, but it is about education. Education to teach homeless people how to prepare quick and easy meals healthily without succumbing to corporate marketing schemes which advertise better health with a higher price tag.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Do they not teach kids in school about nutrition and food anymore? I am trying to remember back to my school days and I am sure at sure at some point we learned at least a little bit about eating healthy. Maybe rather than teaching homeless people to cook and eat healthy, just teach all kids in elementary school. Plus that way people who aren't homeless but have no idea how to prepare meals and end up eating crap can learn about it too.
Yes, they do to some extent teach it in schools, and that's a great idea... The problem comes when kids become homeless because of family crisis and economic collapse, falling out of/being excluded from school very early, getting into crime... and therefore never having had access to mainstream education beyond a certain age. They get to a certain age and if they were taught anything at all about food preparation in first/elementary school, they can't recall it, and they've picked up a million bad habits since.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Since my husband left we have halved our intake of meat and cut out all the pre-processed 'junk food' that he was obsessed with and as a consequence we are all healthier.
Yes, it takes more time, but it also taste better and is better for us and the environment.
The problem is that basic cooking/shopping skills are not being taught to children anymore. Parents don't have the time and schools don't have the money. Children grow up thinking it's normal to buy everything ready made and so they do the same.
Strange when you see the amount of cookery programmes on TV.
Wembley 18/06/07
If there was a reason, it was you.
O2 Arena 18/09/09