Interspecies Sex: Evolution's Hidden Secret?

245

Comments

  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    baraka wrote:
    Was this pic taken in captivity? I'm not sure if a tiger & lion 'cross paths' very much in the wild, if at all.
    Can only cross paths in the Gir Forest region of India......last bastion of the Asiatic Lion. I have never heard of cross breeding in the wild. The social structures of the two species in the wild are very different. Lions are social animals, while Tigers are not.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    tybird wrote:
    I suspect that the size of the eastern coyote may be the result of some cross-breeding with domestic dogs (large breeds of course), and the fact that in the east the coyote is the apex predator in many areas. It lacks serious competition for food, thus probably grows to a greater size. I have not heard of any research that has separated the U.S. coyote into two species. Many folks are still debating whether the Florida Panther actually deserves its current status as a species.

    No, the difference would have been well in place before large-breed domestic dogs arrived. Wolves and coyotes are distinct and similar and though they both breed with domestics, the Eastern and Western coyote distinction that I mention seems to be of a wolf-coyote hybrid from before we know how to think of.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    gue_barium wrote:
    No, the difference would have been well in place before large-breed domestic dogs arrived. Wolves and coyotes are distinct and similar and though they both breed with domestics, the Eastern and Western coyote distinction that I mention seems to be of a wolf-coyote hybrid from before we know how to think of.
    Interesting.....I do know that there is crossing with dogs here in the east. I thought that the eastern coyote was a recent thing......mostly migration from the west and southwest.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    tybird wrote:
    Interesting.....I do know that there is crossing with dogs here in the east. I thought that the eastern coyote was a recent thing......mostly migration from the west and southwest.

    You might have something there. You just jogged my brain. The coyote was pretty much extinct east of the Mississippi there for awhile, I think. The comeback has been something to behold.
    Well, domestic dogs or not, they kept the look.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    tybird wrote:
    No, the Clouded Leopard has always been a distinct species. It is now two distinct species according to the posted article.


    I see, there are 2 distinct species of clouded leopard now, a new species separate from the Asian species.


    tybird wrote:
    Can only cross paths in the Gir Forest region of India......last bastion of the Asiatic Lion. I have never heard of cross breeding in the wild. The social structures of the two species in the wild are very different. Lions are social animals, while Tigers are not.

    That's what I thought. I was also going to mention the social structures, the tiger is more of a 'loner'. I don't think I've ever read of interbreeding except in captivity, as well. You are very knowledgeable in the subject!
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    I see, there are 2 distinct species of clouded leopard now, a new species separate from the Asian species.





    That's what I thought. I was also going to mention the social structures, the tiger is more of a 'loner'. I don't think I've ever read of interbreeding except in captivity, as well. You are very knowledgeable in the subject!

    The Tiger is the only species I've ever seen that can get away with psychosis. They are God's own in the category of natural selection. Those eyes.

    Edit: oops.

    i was going to say something about those clouded leopards you posted. yes they are beautiful creatures.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    gue_barium wrote:
    You might have something there. You just jogged my brain. The coyote was pretty much extinct east of the Mississippi there for awhile, I think. The comeback has been something to behold.
    Well, domestic dogs or not, they kept the look.
    Most, really to some degree all were, of the potential apex predators were driven to extinction in the east in the post-Columbian era.....panthers (except for the Florida species in southern Florida), wolves and probably the coyote. There is huge debate among the zoological/biological community about the current existence of the panther in the east. Some say that there are no "native", non-introduced, panthers in the east outside of south Florida. Some argue for a small and secretive population. I believe that the Fish & Wildlife service has undertaken a project in an attempt to answer this question.

    As to the movement east of coyote, I read a few years back that they have now moved into Smoky Mountain National Park, and because they got there on their on, the park service was not going to attempt to remove them from the park like they are trying to do with the feral hogs.

    I can remember time when you did not see or hear of coyotes in Alabama. I have seen both them and the armadillo move in from the west during my lifetime.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    baraka wrote:
    That's what I thought. I was also going to mention the social structures, the tiger is more of a 'loner'. I don't think I've ever read of interbreeding except in captivity, as well. You are very knowledgeable in the subject!
    Yes, the tiger is a loner. The male and female only interact positively when it is breeding season. Any other time, a fight will ensue. The female raises cubs on her own. This structure is basically identical to that seen in Polar Bears. Both Polar Bear and Tiger males will eat their own young, if they encounter them, and they are hungry.

    Thank you for noticing........I'm a old biology student studying to be a field researcher or professor one day.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    tybird wrote:

    I can remember time when you did not see or hear of coyotes in Alabama. I have seen both them and the armadillo move in from the west during my lifetime.
    I saw the same thing happen in Southern Minnesota with the coyotes. A little chilly for armadillos.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    gue_barium wrote:
    I saw the same thing happen in Southern Minnesota with the coyotes. A little chilly for armadillos.
    Ha ha.....yeah the snow might make life tough on the 'dillers....but watch out with Global warming, you might wake up one morning and say,"Where the hell did all these holes in my yard come from?"
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    I saw the same thing happen in Southern Minnesota with the coyotes. A little chilly for armadillos.

    Let me put it this way: at age 19 I heard a pack of wolves howling not very far away from my tent in northern Minnesota on a trip with my little brother. It went on so long (there was a moose for the feast, best we could reckon, and that fucker sounded like it was gonna crash our tent)...it went for a couple of hours. We took a watch out and measured our pulses which were bounding.

    It had to have been 12 years later in the southern part of the state that I heard a pack of coyotes howling for the first time there.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    The Tiger is the only species I've ever seen that can get away with psychosis. They are God's own in the category of natural selection. Those eyes.

    Edit: oops.

    i was going to say something about those clouded leopards you posted. yes they are beautiful creatures.

    Aren't they!? And I love those tiger eyes too!

    http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/baraka1/tigereyes.jpg
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    Aren't they!? And I love those tiger eyes too!

    http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/baraka1/tigereyes.jpg
    that scares me.

    hehee.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    tybird wrote:

    Thank you for noticing........I'm a old biology student studying to be a field researcher or professor one day.

    You retain information well! Biology was always a minor for me (actually at Samford & UAB) and I took a few zoology courses, but I always need a refresher for those things I learned that I no longer 'practice'. I'm a bit more of a chemistry nerd ;)

    I have a feeling you'd make an excellent professor!
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    that scares me.

    hehee.

    Big cats can be scary! I had the pleasure of working at the Memphis zoo while I was finishing up my degree. I got to collect specimens and perform minor microbiology testing on the big cats. Unfortunately, I didn't get to get close up to the tigers & lions, only the 'medium-size' cats, like panthers & leopards. And those cats were nice & sedated by the time I got to them.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    Big cats can be scary! I had the pleasure of working at the Memphis zoo while I was finishing up my degree. I got to collect specimens and perform minor microbiology testing on the big cats. Unfortunately, I didn't get to get close up to the tigers & lions, only the 'medium-size' cats, like panthers & leopards. And those cats were nice & sedated by the time I got to them.

    Oh my, you replied.

    What do you do?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    baraka wrote:
    You retain information well! Biology was always a minor for me (actually at Samford & UAB) and I took a few zoology courses, but I always need a refresher for those things I learned that I no longer 'practice'. I'm a bit more of a chemistry nerd ;)

    I have a feeling you'd make an excellent professor!
    UAB.....from where I have Mass Comm & History degrees and from where my wife (Daystar 143) has a Nursing Masters and PHD
    Samford....from where my wife has a Nursing bachelors degree plus a law degree from the Cumberland School of Law. She is now a practicing attorney.

    Currently, I am at Birmingham-Southern studying Biology.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    baraka wrote:
    Big cats can be scary! I had the pleasure of working at the Memphis zoo while I was finishing up my degree. I got to collect specimens and perform minor microbiology testing on the big cats. Unfortunately, I didn't get to get close up to the tigers & lions, only the 'medium-size' cats, like panthers & leopards. And those cats were nice & sedated by the time I got to them.
    When were you at the Memphis Zoo.....we might know someone in common.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    Oh my, you replied.

    What do you do?

    Yes, I replied, but only to prevent you from talking to yourself. ;)
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    Yes, I replied, but only to prevent you from talking to yourself. ;)

    i really don't care what you do, but,

    we should go to the gabbly.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.

Categories