Maybe the American public wouldn't be so stupid if...
DOSW
Posts: 2,014
I came to a realization today.
All of us on this board know the general ignorance of the American people. Americans don't know or understand most of the issues of the government's policies. But maybe it's time to stop blaming the people for the issues, and start blaming something higher up.
Information is a precious commodity in times like these. The problem is, most Americans don't know common issues because there are no easily accessible objective references on the matter.
Where are we supposed to go? Watch news on the television where more focus is placed on keeping the watcher entertained as opposed to spreading hard information? Go on the internet and hope you find an objective, accurate article on the matter? Go to the library and read a politician's 500 page book which never shows both sides of the story?
I honestly do not believe the American public is reasonably responsible for their ignorance. What we need is one source... a gigantic nonpartisan website dedicated to providing information in its purest form about current events to the general public. A website that becomes a household name of Google proportions. It should offer easily navigated, succinct information that can be accessed in greater depth with the click of a button. Need to know Obama's voting record? Done. Want to know the vice-president's involvement in Halliburton and in the Middle East? Done. The information would be would be suitable for citations in research papers.
Let's face it. The nature of people not just in America, but all around the world, tells them that reading massive books in order to get informed on a single issue is inefficient. Most people don't do it, and how can you blame them? Even if you feel the public's laziness is solely responsible for its lack of knowledge, don't you think something should be done to counteract that? Getting a well-informed public is NOT as difficult as it seems.
"And in all the madness, thought becomes numb and naive..."
All of us on this board know the general ignorance of the American people. Americans don't know or understand most of the issues of the government's policies. But maybe it's time to stop blaming the people for the issues, and start blaming something higher up.
Information is a precious commodity in times like these. The problem is, most Americans don't know common issues because there are no easily accessible objective references on the matter.
Where are we supposed to go? Watch news on the television where more focus is placed on keeping the watcher entertained as opposed to spreading hard information? Go on the internet and hope you find an objective, accurate article on the matter? Go to the library and read a politician's 500 page book which never shows both sides of the story?
I honestly do not believe the American public is reasonably responsible for their ignorance. What we need is one source... a gigantic nonpartisan website dedicated to providing information in its purest form about current events to the general public. A website that becomes a household name of Google proportions. It should offer easily navigated, succinct information that can be accessed in greater depth with the click of a button. Need to know Obama's voting record? Done. Want to know the vice-president's involvement in Halliburton and in the Middle East? Done. The information would be would be suitable for citations in research papers.
Let's face it. The nature of people not just in America, but all around the world, tells them that reading massive books in order to get informed on a single issue is inefficient. Most people don't do it, and how can you blame them? Even if you feel the public's laziness is solely responsible for its lack of knowledge, don't you think something should be done to counteract that? Getting a well-informed public is NOT as difficult as it seems.
"And in all the madness, thought becomes numb and naive..."
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
Post edited by Unknown User on
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a very good non-partisan site for some things. It doesn't house a ton of information but their stuff is well researched and well backed up.
Yeah, that's kind of the idea I had in mind (although I was thinking more like an encyclopedia than a fact-check). But not enough people know about that website. I was thinking a massive new website that would be endorsed by the government as well as non-profit organizations, but run entirely by a nonpartisan staff. It would have to get massive hype by the media, is what I'm saying. That's what I meant by Google-like proportions, in that when people saw something on the news, they'd think, "I should go check this out on
.com" and be able to get as much or as little info as they wanted on the issue with a few clicks of a button.
I know it's never going to happen, but if I were in Congress, I'd put a lot more thought into it and make a pitch.
it would be nice to have something like that, for the people who are interested. I think the hard part about a site of that magnitude that you're proposing would be trying to validate the facts in a timely manner. We live in a day and age where right now isn't fast enough. In order for that to work the gov't / media would have to pick a non-divisive issue to keep tabs on first. They couldn't go right for the war in iraq (partly b/c of the polarity it causes and partly b/c they can't release all the information/plans). I guess the hard part would be when does something transition from reasonable speculation to fact? It would be nice to see something like that though, that gave reliable information that isn't supported by an ideological (partisian) agenda.
i disagree. such info is out there, people just dont care to read it. that's how the news got to be the way it is. if people truly wanted objective reporting, that's what the news would provide. but they dont, they want something more entertaining. i used to think it was laziness, apathy, or stupidity. not wanting to have to think hard about complicated issues. i think the problem runs deeper than that though... more subconsciously psychological. the more communication we have, the more isolated we become. i think what americans really want is identity. i think this is why the christian right has been so successful, they offer a unifying identity. it's why we listen to al franken, michael moore, rush limbaugh, sean hannity... it's becos we want something we can agree with, something that makes us feel like we're part of a greater community. the democrats struggle with this becos being the party of diversity means everyone feels more connected to their diverse group than the democratic group... so when they're not talking about the small group issues, people ignore them.
this is why people opt for entertainment or partisan news over neutral factual news... if there were a real sense of community left in this country, this wouldn't be the case. if you felt like you lived in harmony with your neighbors, you'd be more comfortable challenging your political leanings. but when you live in a suburb where no one speaks and the only time you see your neighbor is going from car to house, or in a tenement in the ghetto where neighbors change monthly and friendly conversation is distrusted, that political identification is about the only thing outside of religion that people can cling to that makes them feel like they're part of a group that understands them.
I know plenty of people who don't march, get on a message board, protest, or whatever...and they're just as "informed" as the rest of us.
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I don't think I'm arrogant when i say that I am more informed than the majority of the population merely because statistically the majority do not closely follow the news and current events, nor do they hold degrees. I'm not saying that I'm smarter than anyone else, but I am more informed.
Nobody is 100% impartial.
It's a fact that the mainstream media is their to serve the interests of power.
And the majority of mainstream journalists and reporters are now mere functionaries who will be sacked if they rock the boat.
If people want to find out what's really going on then they have to search for that information.
The responsibility lays with the individual. Only then can any kind of popular groundswell be generated. More often than not though, people need a catalyst to get them off of thier asses, like a war, or an unfair taxation system.
I totally agree with you, we're not factually informed. It seems to be the thing of the last ten years. Journalism, for instance. Journalists in the past were all about digging for the truth of a story, exposing scandal and corruption, and it was really juicy when they came out w/ info on government administrations. That day and age is gone.
The government is now in control of the media, they force scientists and journalists to rewrite their stories to their liking by ways of threated dismissal of their job (like the scientists forced to change their stories on global warming). Who's going to bring us truth when the mainstream media as a whole is controlled? The reason people listen to the likes of political commentators (Rush, Bill O'Reilley, Al Fraken, etc.) is not a way to identify, as someone mentioned, but to deny that there could actually be truth out there and that we need to relate to someone w/ an opinion because we can't form our own. How about reviewing the facts, like we should be doing and thinking for ourselves? I'm actually offended by these "opinion-ators" and their need to be broadcast like they're some big shots or something.
The whole entertainment aspect is thrown in there too. People "in general" don't want gloomy facts! They want to be dazzled, intrigued and shocked! Why give truth when we can put on a show? I mean, look at the Jerry Springer Show. Wasn't he the first to have a talk show that was purely theatrics and not about reality? It all took off from there. And the success of tabloids is another indicator that the public doesn't want facts. It's pretty sad that the public in general would be satisfied with opinions and excess, it's really pretty embarrassing. I actually have to watch the BBC news to feel that I'm not getting biased reporting.
the vast majority of americans cannot name more than 2 supreme court members. maybe 10 congresspeople. a large number don't know who the vice president is or have any idea how laws are actually passed. americans are very mislead about how this country actually runs or what effect a given policy has, and that is regardless of whether or not they agree with me. i think many on the left were very misinformed about the anwr drilling... it was simplified to "turn alaska into a refinery." it goes both ways. every point is politicized. it's never a matter of confronting an issue, looking at it, and trying to find the best way to deal with it. politics has become reacting to an issue, picking your team's ideological side on it, then finding facts to make your stance seem reasonable. both sides are guilty of it.
I totally agree with you, we're not factually informed. It seems to be the thing of the last ten years. Journalism, for instance. Journalists in the past were all about digging for the truth of a story, exposing scandal and corruption, and it was really juicy when they came out w/ info on government administrations. That day and age is gone.
The government is now in control of the media, they force scientists and journalists to rewrite their stories to their liking by ways of threated dismissal of their job (like the scientists forced to change their stories on global warming). Who's going to bring us truth when the mainstream media as a whole is controlled? The reason people listen to the likes of political commentators (Rush, Bill O'Reilley, Al Fraken, etc.) is not just a way to identify, but to deny that there could actually be truth out there and that it's either "one side or the other". One needs an identity, someone said? Yeah, how about reviewing the facts, like we should be doing and thinking for ourselves? I'm actually offended by these "opinion-ators" and their need to be broadcast like they're some big shots or something.
The whole entertainment aspect is thrown in there too. People "in general" don't want gloomy facts! They want to be dazzled, intrigued and shocked! Why give truth when we can put on a show? I mean, look at the Jerry Springer Show. Wasn't he the first to have a talk show that was purely theatrics and not about reality? It all took off from there. And the success of tabloids is another indicator that the public doesn't want facts. It's pretty sad that the public in general would be satisfied with opinions and excess, it's really pretty embarrassing. I actually have to watch the BBC news to feel that I'm not getting biased reporting.
What I'd like to see is a website that actually can be kept up-to-date with facts pertaining to current events, everything factual about country leaders and gov't issues being examined at the past and present, running candidates' resumes, and the like. Why shouldn't we be in the know about these things, and have it be in one spot instead of taking half our day chasing it down?
A website will accomplish nothing.
Uneducated people may or may not want to be educated.
And exactly what facts do you want to teach them? Who's facts?
In case you haven't noticed, there are way too many variations of the "facts" being taught all over the world; with each side twisting, embelishing and quite often downright fabricating the "facts".
Seems to me the important thing has always been to encourage, stimulate (intellectually) and inspire for people to open their minds and hearts to learning and intellectual achievment. And through resources provide easy access to education.
Encourage the feeding of our minds and enthusiasm for learning.
Try to set a standard for reading, learning and knowledge as being a "cool" thing, not a "dorky " thing.
Still, you're going to have people who simply won't care or resist the educational process.
From the pages of "If we Can't Beat Them, Join Them.......how about...
If we could make learning, reading and intellectual achievement equally desirable as entertainment, sports and reality shows; then we'd really be getting somewhere.
Or maybe pop-culture/entertainment could smarten it up quite a bit and make their programs/movies educational, as well as entertaining. We see very few of these.
Just a few of my thoughts.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Basically, nobody wants to hear it. They got used to the idea that America is the greatest country in the world, that we are the spreader of freedom and democracy, and everyone but ourselves is evil.
Another problem is that there are a lot of incredibly stupid liberals out there who give conservatives an excuse to reject liberalism altogether.
One example is the liberal belief that terrorists are in Iraq because the US is in Iraq. This is probably one of the stupidest and most near-sighted statements I have heard spoken in recent memory, but there are a lot of liberals who really believe this. Nancy Pelosi made this very statement the other day. Statements like these are just obvious partisan attempts to slag the status quo rather than solve a problem.
And so it's hard for the rest of America to take liberalism seriously when there are aspects of liberalism that just seem to border on the cognitively inferior. Modern liberalism is, for the most part, a sickening hypocrisy that in many respects shadows the same destructive characteristics of conservatism.
It gets to the point where it's hard to tell the difference between somebody who is genuinely interested in solving this nation's problems, and someone who is interested in just being spiteful and insulting to current establishment -the latter being just another form of taking the moral highground for the sake of casting others down.
The title of this thread, for example, is not how to solve problems. It's just somebody's agenda to call Americans stupid. It obviously makes this person feel good for whatever reason. This person sat down and said himself, "I want to call Americans stupid, but I need a context so that my agenda is not so obvious."
Does it really hurt to title this thread, "Why are Americans so uninformed?" But see, the problem with that title is that it is not insulting or spiteful enough.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Let's clear this up... although I feel like I do know more than the average American, I am hardly an intellectual and I guess I could be wrong. My idea was to help EVERYONE... including myself. I would benefit just as much from the website idea as everyone else. If I came off too high and mighty, I apologize for that.
This is where we disagree then. My theory is that its not that people don't WANT to get the facts, it's that they don't want to take all the time and effort necessary to obtain those facts. The info is out there, but it isn't accessible and popular enough to be given any serious recognition, IMO.
Good point. It seems like my ideal would need a lot more than just a website to change the way people get their info... it would require less of the current divide in American politics between the left and the right. A new administration may or may not solve that problem.
Yeah, I realize now that it will take a lot more than a website. But, a website like I proposed would be a large step in better informing the American public.
Also, facts "belong" to no one. This website would focus primarily on American current events... and although there is always a chance that facts can be altered from the truth, it would be as close to the truth as humanly possible.
Okay, look... my intentions were not to insult the American public (which includes myself). I did call them stupid, which I shouldn't have done... in retrospect, I should have used the term "uninformed" instead. But are you trying to argue that the American public isn't uninformed? I wish that were the case, but it simply isn't true.
I am also very offended that you find my idea to be pushing some kind of partisan agenda. That is EXACTLY the opposite of what I want to do. Rather, I want to promote the idea of nonpartisan information that is easily accessible to the American public so they can make their own choices. It does NOT make me feel good to call the American public uninformed. In fact it pains me to say so, which is why I came up with this idea in the first place. I want America to be a smarter, better-informed public that knows what they're voting for. I want us to improve upon what we are now.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts.
I am not trying to argue that the American public is not uninformed. I'm arguing that they are not stupid, but that even if they are stupid, that's really beside the point because Americans are uninformed because they choose to be, not because they are incapable of being otherwise.
Also, I'm not saying you are pushing a partisan agenda. I'm saying that liberals who make negative comments about the US in the name of "truth" are sometimes just being partisan.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
you aren't very smart, are you?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Well, not compared to you and that brilliant response. :rolleyes:
You want to back up that statement?
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