i don't really know. i think the australian people act as if they don't give a rat's arse. but i can attest to the shocked looks on people's faces when i tell them i am atheist.
i'm also still reeling from the fact that the man who raised me, who i had always known as an atheist, told me that if he were to 'pick' a religion it would be judaism. my first thought was 'what the fuck!?' and i have yet to recover that that little revelation.
and if australians don't give a rat's arse, then why bother sharing your views in the first place? i think maybe 'we' like to think we are secular but when it comes down to it, the majority are praying to get into heaven. and they want their politicians kneeling in the pew right beside them.
I don't know, maybe its just the circles that I move in. Most of my friends are atheist, and most of the ones who aren't couldn't really be described as being particularly religious. To me its always seemed that Australian society really is very secular, and until last week, I'd always assumed that that also extends to politics. It always gave me a certain sense of smugness to think that unlike the americans, we could at least leave religion out of our political campaigns, even if there is plenty of other stupid rubbish in there. Now I'm not so sure.
Actually if I were to 'pick' a religion in the sense of picking a set of religious concepts and ideals, Judaism would come high on the list. I really like the Jewish concept of forgiveness. It makes a lot more sense to me than the christian one, which always seemed pretty stupid to me.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I think what Sponger mean (correct me if I'm mistaken, Sponger) is that everyone is an atheist regarding all of the other gods not of their religion.
What I'm saying is that people who say they believe in god actually don't believe in god. Instead, they just believe that they should believe in god.
Chritianity, for instance, is popular because the values that it observes are attractive to most people. Most people like the idea of living in a peaceful world, having a faithful marriage...etc.
But, they don't really know why they have an appreciation for these values. So, throughout their lives, they struggle with finding the strength to observe them.
So, religion makes an appearance and says, "It's because god said so through his only begotten and magical son."
Suddenly it all makes sense. Simply put: If people really believed in god, they would never sin. Instead they are aware of the concept of a god, and so they try their best to live in his image.
Apparently If you don't believe in God or follow a monotheistic religion you can't have a moral system. I mean what sort of line of argument is that?
I really don't want Australia to be come a small America-we have a great country i don't want it getting fucked up. I only wish some of these politician would realise that most people are intelligent enough to not base their political choices on religion (At least in this country).
I would take issue with any idea that fundamentalism is on the increase in young Australians- my friends are either aethists or very loosley religous. Its a media beat up.
I don't know, maybe its just the circles that I move in. Most of my friends are atheist, and most of the ones who aren't couldn't really be described as being particularly religious. To me its always seemed that Australian society really is very secular, and until last week, I'd always assumed that that also extends to politics. It always gave me a certain sense of smugness to think that unlike the americans, we could at least leave religion out of our political campaigns, even if there is plenty of other stupid rubbish in there. Now I'm not so sure.
Actually if I were to 'pick' a religion in the sense of picking a set of religious concepts and ideals, Judaism would come high on the list. I really like the Jewish concept of forgiveness. It makes a lot more sense to me than the christian one, which always seemed pretty stupid to me.
oh i agree australian society is secular. as to the politics, our politicians seem to be of the misguided notion that they have to court the christian vote. why this is, i have no idea. maybe it's just a passing phase. or perhaps it's a media beef-up. who knows.
as for 'picking a religion', none of them make an iota of sense to me, so i couldn't in all good conscience pick one over the other, even if my life depended on it. which it doesn't and never would.
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oh i agree australian society is secular. as to the politics, our politicians seem to be of the misguided notion that they have to court the christian vote. why this is, i have no idea. maybe it's just a passing phase. or perhaps it's a media beef-up. who knows.
as for 'picking a religion', none of them make an iota of sense to me, so i couldn't in all good conscience pick one over the other, even if my life depended on it. which it doesn't and never would.
Maybe they're just trying to hedge their bets. Better to alienate the small muslim population than the much larger proportion of the voting public that identify as christian. In reality it probably is just a media beat-up. I don't actually remember much more than a two or three sentence comment from Kevin Rudd or John Howard on the issue.
The idea of worshipping or even believing in the existence of a supernatural being never made any sense to me, but I think most religions have something to offer in terms of philisophical and moral concepts that can be applied in the context of everyday life. Just leave all the dogma behind.
The Jewish concept I was referring to is that only those that you have wronged can forgive you for what you did to them. That makes much more sense to me than the christian idea of some guy who died 2000 years ago taking repsonsibility for everything you've done wrong. The Jews also have a hell of a lot of holidays. . .
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Maybe they're just trying to hedge their bets. Better to alienate the small muslim population than the much larger proportion of the voting public that identify as christian. In reality it probably is just a media beat-up. I don't actually remember much more than a two or three sentence comment from Kevin Rudd or John Howard on the issue.
The idea of worshipping or even believing in the existence of a supernatural being never made any sense to me, but I think most religions have something to offer in terms of philisophical and moral concepts that can be applied in the context of everyday life. Just leave all the dogma behind.
The Jewish concept I was referring to is that only those that you have wronged can forgive you for what you did to them. That makes much more sense to me than the christian idea of some guy who died 2000 years ago taking repsonsibility for everything you've done wrong. The Jews also have a hell of a lot of holidays. . .
what?! australia doesn't have enough public holidays for you?
muslim, christian, jew, hindu. they're all the same to me.
the only forgiveness 'doctrine' i have is i am the only one who has the power to forgive me of anything i do wrong. i am who i have to live with. no one else. their doctrine dismisses me as an atheist so they are of no consequence to me in getting right within myself.
oh yeah it makes so much sense to piss off a minority. it aggravates me that people are categorised. and yeah i do it by dismissing people who believe in God. but i do not judge them as being any less of a person than i am because of it. i just ignore it. a person's religion is no one's business but their own. however if it become prejudicial in any way, then it is everyone's business.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
what?! australia doesn't have enough public holidays for you?
Nope. The israelis have it figured out. They seem to have more public holidays than they do working days. I didn't get anything done while I was over there because there was always a bloody holiday on!
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
You will still hear the difference compared to American English. And I said people with another language, not just people with an Irish English accent.
people of african decent can be white as well as black,
Never said anything about African decent. I was talking about skin colour.
id like to see you pick a gay person out of a crowd...
Ok.
so like i said your logic is completely lacking of any genuine thought or consideration.
I disagree.
Considering you dont have to see a person to discriminate also that statement is absolutly off base.
How?
I never said anything about atheists not being discriminated. I just said I think they're not most discriminated against.
Being openly atheist, I'm certainly in a very small minority, but in an urban area in the north it's not really a big deal. In some parts of the country the discrimination is intense.
I think you're right. However, I consider myself openly atheist. But you don't tell everyone you encounter you're an atheist, do you? If no one ever asked me, or there weren't any special situations that would show I am an atheist, not many people would know.
What I'm saying is that people who say they believe in god actually don't believe in god. Instead, they just believe that they should believe in god.
Chritianity, for instance, is popular because the values that it observes are attractive to most people. Most people like the idea of living in a peaceful world, having a faithful marriage...etc.
But, they don't really know why they have an appreciation for these values. So, throughout their lives, they struggle with finding the strength to observe them.
So, religion makes an appearance and says, "It's because god said so through his only begotten and magical son."
Suddenly it all makes sense. Simply put: If people really believed in god, they would never sin. Instead they are aware of the concept of a god, and so they try their best to live in his image.
No, they really don't. I find that the more religious a person is, the more they engage in utter hipocrisy. Also, it seems presumptuous to say people don't "really believe" in god. Unless you are a mindreader, how can you claim to know what people "really" believe? To say they wouldn't sin if they really believed is a self-serving circular logic.
The Christian value system is not superior to any other. IMO it is deeply flawed. It basically says that all sin is forgivable if you just believe in the bloody god on a stick. Do whatever you want, but BELIEVE in that god and he'll forgive it all. Yeah, I know about the "go and sin no more" but they always do anyway, don't they?
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
But its vice versa. If your a die hard church go-er living in liberal massachusetts you will probaly receive some form of descrimination, compared to the south.
Are you aware that people can be liberal and die hard church goers?
Guess what, the republican party doesn't own God!!!! This country has a tradition of Christians that live out their faith in very progressive ways.
I just now got around to watching this so-called "debate." What a crock! They couldn't find a single atheist to participate?
Tune in tomorrow when we debate Buddhism. Our guests will be two Hindus and a Muslim.
Apparently due to the outcry that the segment generated, Richard Dawkins will be appearing as a quest in the near future. I'd love to see it. I have a lot of respect for him, although I don't particularly agree with his apparent quest to rid the world of religion.
Live and let live is what I say. Without a diversity of religious beliefs the world would be much less interesting. If anyone wants to debate the merits of their particular religion with me I'm happy to partcipate, but I don't feel the need to attack them just for their beliefs. As long as they're harmless, what do I care?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Apparently due to the outcry that the segment generated, Richard Dawkins will be appearing as a quest in the near future. I'd love to see it. I have a lot of respect for him, although I don't particularly agree with his apparent quest to rid the world of religion.
Live and let live is what I say. Without a diversity of religious beliefs the world would be much less interesting. If anyone wants to debate the merits of their particular religion with me I'm happy to partcipate, but I don't feel the need to attack them just for their beliefs. As long as they're harmless, what do I care?
Should be interesting. But this is was they do, get some extremist from the "other side" to represent Atheism to the public.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Should be interesting. But this is was they do, get some extremist from the "other side" to represent Atheism to the public.
Well, he's hardly an extremist. He's just very vocal about his ideas.
I haven't read his latest book yet, but he's now moved from writing primarily about evolutionary theory to a full fledged attack on religion, with logical arguments against the existence of god. Maybe it was done out of frustration at having his work attacked purely because it did not agree with fundamentalist christian/jewish/islamic teaching. I think his books on evolution attracted most of their criticism from fundamentalist christian groups. He seems to have launched a personal crusade on organised religion in general.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I don't know much about Dawkins other than that he mistook Mr. Garrison for a woman. But, if it's true that he is calling for the end of religion, then I don't think he makes for a very good representative of the atheist agenda.
The last thing we want judeo-christians thinking is that atheists are just as vain and oppressive as they are. We're supposed to be above that.
Well, he's hardly an extremist. He's just very vocal about his ideas.
I haven't read his latest book yet, but he's now moved from writing primarily about evolutionary theory to a full fledged attack on religion, with logical arguments against the existence of god. Maybe it was done out of frustration at having his work attacked purely because it did not agree with fundamentalist christian/jewish/islamic teaching. I think his books on evolution attracted most of their criticism from fundamentalist christian groups. He seems to have launched a personal crusade on organised religion in general.
I watched his movie, it was pretty good. I don't disagree with him. But he is kind of extreme attacking religion.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I watched his movie, it was pretty good. I don't disagree with him. But he is kind of extreme attacking religion.
I didn't know he had a movie. What's it called?
I just found this excerpt from 'The God Delusion'. He's describing Yahweh, the god of the old testament:
"arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidical, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Yeah, pretty provacative language I guess.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I don't know much about Dawkins other than that he mistook Mr. Garrison for a woman. But, if it's true that he is calling for the end of religion, then I don't think he makes for a very good representative of the atheist agenda.
The last thing we want judeo-christians thinking is that atheists are just as vain and oppressive as they are. We're supposed to be above that.
I don't know that he's actually calling for the end of religion. He's just not pulling any punches in putting his views across. I'll have to read his book and find out. According to wikipedia, the core messages of it are:
- Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
- Natural selection and other scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" in explaining the living world and perhaps even the cosmos.
- Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch.
-Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I don't know that he's actually calling for the end of religion. He's just not pulling any punches in putting his views across. I'll have to read his book and find out. According to wikipedia, the core messages of it are:
- Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
- Natural selection and other scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" in explaining the living world and perhaps even the cosmos.
- Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch.
-Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.
I see. That doesn't sound very extremist to me either then.
I just found this excerpt from 'The God Delusion'. He's describing Yahweh, the god of the old testament:
"arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidical, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"The idea of a divine creator belittles the elegant reality of the universe"
I couldn't agree more.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
"The idea of a divine creator belittles the elegant reality of the universe"
I couldn't agree more.
Oh the video gets better. It's great. We should get a list of Atheist documentaries together. One similarity I've found is that they are usually soft-spoken about the issues. It's funny to see an Atheist calmly interrogate a theist and have them flip-out and not answer the questions. Just gives solidity to the disbelief in religion.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I just found this excerpt from 'The God Delusion'. He's describing Yahweh, the god of the old testament:
"arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidical, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Yeah, pretty provacative language I guess.
hehe, that's pretty funny. close to how lewis black described his jewish god: "sort of a raging alcoholic... 'I CAN SEE EVERYTHING YOU DO AND IM GONNA KICK YOUR FUCKING ASS!'"
I don't know that he's actually calling for the end of religion. He's just not pulling any punches in putting his views across. I'll have to read his book and find out. According to wikipedia, the core messages of it are:
- Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
- Natural selection and other scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" in explaining the living world and perhaps even the cosmos.
- Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch.
-Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.
I am 1/2 way through this book now, and enjoying it greatly.
I would recommend it to those who will agree or disagree with it alike. It is not especially bashing the faithful- it is mainly explaining what atheism is- and in doing so he makes comparisons between a belief in god and no belief in god.
He expands greatly on what I have always found the strongest argument against god... that a universe derrived from a god is more improbable then a universe without a creating god. Because no matter how unlikely a universe beginning through natural means, a god who creates a universe must be in itself more improbable because, being able to design and create the universe, god must therefore be more complex then just a universe.
So saying god created the universe is not just shifting the question to where did god come from... it is simultaneously shifting the question and making the answer more complex. But anyway, I really don't care what people believe as long as they think about it.
Oh the video gets better. It's great. We should get a list of Atheist documentaries together. One similarity I've found is that they are usually soft-spoken about the issues. It's funny to see an Atheist calmly interrogate a theist and have them flip-out and not answer the questions. Just gives solidity to the disbelief in religion.
I just finished watching it. The muslim guy in Jerusalem was completely unreasonable, and kinda scary. If I was Richard Dawkins I think I would have run away.
He did lose his cool a little bit when he was talking to the evangelist guy though. You could see he was fuming on the inside. It seemed like the discussion degenerated very rapidly the moment he said 'You obviously know nothing about evolution'. I think that's the greatest problem with his writing. He can sometimes come across as sounding a bit arrogant, which is the perfect way to instantly repell religious people.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I just finished watching it. The muslim guy in Jerusalem was completely unreasonable, and kinda scary. If I was Richard Dawkins I think I would have run away.
He did lose his cool a little bit when he was talking to the evangelist guy though. You could see he was fuming on the inside. It seemed like the discussion degenerated very rapidly the moment he said 'You obviously know nothing about evolution'. I think that's the greatest problem with his writing. He can sometimes come across as sounding a bit arrogant, which is the perfect way to instantly repell religious people.
Yea, that particular evangelist was really aggressive though. The guy creeped me out more than the Muslim dude. I think Dawkins did pretty well, I'm not sure if I could have done that any better.
I mean, I get sick of hearing people say "Darwinism" is a myth, or it has no evidence. Because that's just totally absurd and obviously, they don't know anything about it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
I don't know, maybe its just the circles that I move in. Most of my friends are atheist, and most of the ones who aren't couldn't really be described as being particularly religious. To me its always seemed that Australian society really is very secular, and until last week, I'd always assumed that that also extends to politics. It always gave me a certain sense of smugness to think that unlike the americans, we could at least leave religion out of our political campaigns, even if there is plenty of other stupid rubbish in there. Now I'm not so sure.
Actually if I were to 'pick' a religion in the sense of picking a set of religious concepts and ideals, Judaism would come high on the list. I really like the Jewish concept of forgiveness. It makes a lot more sense to me than the christian one, which always seemed pretty stupid to me.
-C Addison
What I'm saying is that people who say they believe in god actually don't believe in god. Instead, they just believe that they should believe in god.
Chritianity, for instance, is popular because the values that it observes are attractive to most people. Most people like the idea of living in a peaceful world, having a faithful marriage...etc.
But, they don't really know why they have an appreciation for these values. So, throughout their lives, they struggle with finding the strength to observe them.
So, religion makes an appearance and says, "It's because god said so through his only begotten and magical son."
Suddenly it all makes sense. Simply put: If people really believed in god, they would never sin. Instead they are aware of the concept of a god, and so they try their best to live in his image.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I really don't want Australia to be come a small America-we have a great country i don't want it getting fucked up. I only wish some of these politician would realise that most people are intelligent enough to not base their political choices on religion (At least in this country).
I would take issue with any idea that fundamentalism is on the increase in young Australians- my friends are either aethists or very loosley religous. Its a media beat up.
Blame it on alcohol or whatever, but that's all I got to say about that..
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oh i agree australian society is secular. as to the politics, our politicians seem to be of the misguided notion that they have to court the christian vote. why this is, i have no idea. maybe it's just a passing phase. or perhaps it's a media beef-up. who knows.
as for 'picking a religion', none of them make an iota of sense to me, so i couldn't in all good conscience pick one over the other, even if my life depended on it. which it doesn't and never would.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Maybe they're just trying to hedge their bets. Better to alienate the small muslim population than the much larger proportion of the voting public that identify as christian. In reality it probably is just a media beat-up. I don't actually remember much more than a two or three sentence comment from Kevin Rudd or John Howard on the issue.
The idea of worshipping or even believing in the existence of a supernatural being never made any sense to me, but I think most religions have something to offer in terms of philisophical and moral concepts that can be applied in the context of everyday life. Just leave all the dogma behind.
The Jewish concept I was referring to is that only those that you have wronged can forgive you for what you did to them. That makes much more sense to me than the christian idea of some guy who died 2000 years ago taking repsonsibility for everything you've done wrong. The Jews also have a hell of a lot of holidays. . .
-C Addison
what?! australia doesn't have enough public holidays for you?
muslim, christian, jew, hindu. they're all the same to me.
the only forgiveness 'doctrine' i have is i am the only one who has the power to forgive me of anything i do wrong. i am who i have to live with. no one else. their doctrine dismisses me as an atheist so they are of no consequence to me in getting right within myself.
oh yeah it makes so much sense to piss off a minority. it aggravates me that people are categorised. and yeah i do it by dismissing people who believe in God. but i do not judge them as being any less of a person than i am because of it. i just ignore it. a person's religion is no one's business but their own. however if it become prejudicial in any way, then it is everyone's business.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Nope. The israelis have it figured out. They seem to have more public holidays than they do working days. I didn't get anything done while I was over there because there was always a bloody holiday on!
-C Addison
I disagree.
I said 'if'.
You will still hear the difference compared to American English. And I said people with another language, not just people with an Irish English accent.
Never said anything about African decent. I was talking about skin colour.
Ok.
I disagree.
How?
I never said anything about atheists not being discriminated. I just said I think they're not most discriminated against.
True.
I think you're right. However, I consider myself openly atheist. But you don't tell everyone you encounter you're an atheist, do you? If no one ever asked me, or there weren't any special situations that would show I am an atheist, not many people would know.
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The Christian value system is not superior to any other. IMO it is deeply flawed. It basically says that all sin is forgivable if you just believe in the bloody god on a stick. Do whatever you want, but BELIEVE in that god and he'll forgive it all. Yeah, I know about the "go and sin no more" but they always do anyway, don't they?
Are you aware that people can be liberal and die hard church goers?
Guess what, the republican party doesn't own God!!!! This country has a tradition of Christians that live out their faith in very progressive ways.
Sorry, hate to break that to you.
Tune in tomorrow when we debate Buddhism. Our guests will be two Hindus and a Muslim.
Apparently due to the outcry that the segment generated, Richard Dawkins will be appearing as a quest in the near future. I'd love to see it. I have a lot of respect for him, although I don't particularly agree with his apparent quest to rid the world of religion.
Live and let live is what I say. Without a diversity of religious beliefs the world would be much less interesting. If anyone wants to debate the merits of their particular religion with me I'm happy to partcipate, but I don't feel the need to attack them just for their beliefs. As long as they're harmless, what do I care?
-C Addison
Should be interesting. But this is was they do, get some extremist from the "other side" to represent Atheism to the public.
Well, he's hardly an extremist. He's just very vocal about his ideas.
I haven't read his latest book yet, but he's now moved from writing primarily about evolutionary theory to a full fledged attack on religion, with logical arguments against the existence of god. Maybe it was done out of frustration at having his work attacked purely because it did not agree with fundamentalist christian/jewish/islamic teaching. I think his books on evolution attracted most of their criticism from fundamentalist christian groups. He seems to have launched a personal crusade on organised religion in general.
-C Addison
The last thing we want judeo-christians thinking is that atheists are just as vain and oppressive as they are. We're supposed to be above that.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I watched his movie, it was pretty good. I don't disagree with him. But he is kind of extreme attacking religion.
I didn't know he had a movie. What's it called?
I just found this excerpt from 'The God Delusion'. He's describing Yahweh, the god of the old testament:
"arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidical, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Yeah, pretty provacative language I guess.
-C Addison
I don't know that he's actually calling for the end of religion. He's just not pulling any punches in putting his views across. I'll have to read his book and find out. According to wikipedia, the core messages of it are:
- Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
- Natural selection and other scientific theories are superior to a "God hypothesis" in explaining the living world and perhaps even the cosmos.
- Children should not be labelled by their parents' religion. Terms like "Catholic child" or "Muslim child" should make people flinch.
-Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind.
-C Addison
I see. That doesn't sound very extremist to me either then.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I think this is it here
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6169720917221820689
"The idea of a divine creator belittles the elegant reality of the universe"
I couldn't agree more.
-C Addison
Oh the video gets better. It's great. We should get a list of Atheist documentaries together. One similarity I've found is that they are usually soft-spoken about the issues. It's funny to see an Atheist calmly interrogate a theist and have them flip-out and not answer the questions. Just gives solidity to the disbelief in religion.
hehe, that's pretty funny. close to how lewis black described his jewish god: "sort of a raging alcoholic... 'I CAN SEE EVERYTHING YOU DO AND IM GONNA KICK YOUR FUCKING ASS!'"
I am 1/2 way through this book now, and enjoying it greatly.
I would recommend it to those who will agree or disagree with it alike. It is not especially bashing the faithful- it is mainly explaining what atheism is- and in doing so he makes comparisons between a belief in god and no belief in god.
He expands greatly on what I have always found the strongest argument against god... that a universe derrived from a god is more improbable then a universe without a creating god. Because no matter how unlikely a universe beginning through natural means, a god who creates a universe must be in itself more improbable because, being able to design and create the universe, god must therefore be more complex then just a universe.
So saying god created the universe is not just shifting the question to where did god come from... it is simultaneously shifting the question and making the answer more complex. But anyway, I really don't care what people believe as long as they think about it.
I look forward to seeing him on CNN...
I just finished watching it. The muslim guy in Jerusalem was completely unreasonable, and kinda scary. If I was Richard Dawkins I think I would have run away.
He did lose his cool a little bit when he was talking to the evangelist guy though. You could see he was fuming on the inside. It seemed like the discussion degenerated very rapidly the moment he said 'You obviously know nothing about evolution'. I think that's the greatest problem with his writing. He can sometimes come across as sounding a bit arrogant, which is the perfect way to instantly repell religious people.
-C Addison
Yea, that particular evangelist was really aggressive though. The guy creeped me out more than the Muslim dude. I think Dawkins did pretty well, I'm not sure if I could have done that any better.
I mean, I get sick of hearing people say "Darwinism" is a myth, or it has no evidence. Because that's just totally absurd and obviously, they don't know anything about it.
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/evolution/howdidwegethere.html
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/evolution/lectures.html