CNN's Atheism "debate"

Collin

"debate" indeed. The only one that made any sense was the guy.

I do however agree with the person that said he/she doesn't believe atheists are most discriminated against. You can't pick an atheist out of a crowd.

YourBuddy

Can you pick a gay person out of a crowd?? How about a Muslim? Or sceicentologist? At that nature anyone of any religion? Can you pick out a Nigerian in a crowd? How about someone of Irish decent? Just because it is not obvious that a person is an atheist, does not meant that they are not discriminated.

Collin

YourBuddy wrote:

Can you pick a gay person out of a crowd?? How about a Muslim? Or sceicentologist? At that nature anyone of any religion? Can you pick out a Nigerian in a crowd? How about someone of Irish decent? Just because it is not obvious that a person is an atheist, does not meant that they are not discriminated.

You can often tell if a guy is gay or not. You can tell if someone is a muslim if he is wearing a turban, or if she is wearing a head scarf, for example. You can pick brown and black people out of a crowd. You can pick people with another language than English out of a crowd (if they say something).

I never said they aren't discriminated against. I just don't think they are most discriminated against. Unless they happen to be black, brown or hispanic, dress or look different.

YourBuddy

Collin wrote:

You can often tell if a guy is gay or not. You can tell if someone is a muslim if he is wearing a turban, or if she is wearing a head scarf, for example. You can pick brown and black people out of a crowd. You can pick people with another language than English out of a crowd (if they say something).

I never said they aren't discriminated against. I just don't think they are most discriminated against. Unless they happen to be black, brown or hispanic, dress or look different.

Your logic is completely off...First off not all Muslims wear headdress, second not all Irish have an accent, people of african decent can be white as well as black, id like to see you pick a gay person out of a crowd...so like i said your logic is completely lacking of any genuine thought or consideration.

Considering you dont have to see a person to discriminate also that statement is absolutly off base.

hippiemom

Collin wrote:

You can often tell if a guy is gay or not. You can tell if someone is a muslim if he is wearing a turban, or if she is wearing a head scarf, for example. You can pick brown and black people out of a crowd. You can pick people with another language than English out of a crowd (if they say something).

I never said they aren't discriminated against. I just don't think they are most discriminated against. Unless they happen to be black, brown or hispanic, dress or look different.

They're in pretty much the same position that gays were in 50 years ago. You didn't see a lot of discrimination on a day-to-day basis, because so few were openly gay.

It depends a lot on where you live, too. Being openly atheist, I'm certainly in a very small minority, but in an urban area in the north it's not really a big deal. In some parts of the country the discrimination is intense.

cincybearcat

Awesome, another special class that needs special protection.

I never understood why someone would hate another person because of their religious beliefs, skin color, etc. It just so stupid. I wait until people's action make me hate them.

miller8966

hippiemom wrote:

They're in pretty much the same position that gays were in 50 years ago. You didn't see a lot of discrimination on a day-to-day basis, because so few were openly gay.

It depends a lot on where you live, too. Being openly atheist, I'm certainly in a very small minority, but in an urban area in the north it's not really a big deal. In some parts of the country the discrimination is intense.

But its vice versa. If your a die hard church go-er living in liberal massachusetts you will probaly receive some form of descrimination, compared to the south.

Dog Loyal

I think what Sponger mean (correct me if I'm mistaken, Sponger) is that everyone is an atheist regarding all of the other gods not of their religion. For example, the vast majority of god-believers don't believe in Thor or Zeus. As the saying goes, atheists just take their disbelief one god further.

I am an atheist. That means I don't believe in Thor, Zeus, or your chosen god.

As for the CNN clip, it was like they were trying to lower the collective IQ of the US. Hilarious that the one woman was so het up about the possibility of removing "in God we trust" from money. If I believed in God and wanted him respected, the last thing I'd want is his name on some grubby bill that's getting crammed down the g-string of an exotic dancer, rolled up to snort a line or offered to bribe someone.

I don't care about "god" in the pledge. I always replace it with "dog." I do trust and believe in dog, after all.

gue_barium

MajorCrash wrote:

Recently CNN ran a story about a family that was discriminated against because they were atheist. After that, they had a discussion about why atheists were so hated. Of the three people discussing it, 2 were Christian, and one was Jewish. Note the lack of an atheist in this discussion on atheism.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPHnXrU5JzU

I want to know what you people think about this.

Edit: Here's the blond woman's response to the angry emails she got: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/02/when_atheists_a.html

My take on this?
What a bunch of idiotic simpletons.
There is no substance here whatsoever.

The American media strikes again.

bubbamackdaddy69

keeponrockin wrote:

I agree with what the black guy said

My choice is what I choose to do
If it's causing no harm it shouldn't bother you

Your choice is who you choose to be
If you're causin no harm you're alright with me

My point as well...too many people and groups these days putting their nose in other people business even if the other people are not causing shit

Scubascott

catefrances wrote:

i don't really know. i think the australian people act as if they don't give a rat's arse. but i can attest to the shocked looks on people's faces when i tell them i am atheist.
i'm also still reeling from the fact that the man who raised me, who i had always known as an atheist, told me that if he were to 'pick' a religion it would be judaism. my first thought was 'what the fuck!?' and i have yet to recover that that little revelation.
and if australians don't give a rat's arse, then why bother sharing your views in the first place? i think maybe 'we' like to think we are secular but when it comes down to it, the majority are praying to get into heaven. and they want their politicians kneeling in the pew right beside them.

I don't know, maybe its just the circles that I move in. Most of my friends are atheist, and most of the ones who aren't couldn't really be described as being particularly religious. To me its always seemed that Australian society really is very secular, and until last week, I'd always assumed that that also extends to politics. It always gave me a certain sense of smugness to think that unlike the americans, we could at least leave religion out of our political campaigns, even if there is plenty of other stupid rubbish in there. Now I'm not so sure.

Actually if I were to 'pick' a religion in the sense of picking a set of religious concepts and ideals, Judaism would come high on the list. I really like the Jewish concept of forgiveness. It makes a lot more sense to me than the christian one, which always seemed pretty stupid to me.

sponger

Dog Loyal wrote:

I think what Sponger mean (correct me if I'm mistaken, Sponger) is that everyone is an atheist regarding all of the other gods not of their religion.

What I'm saying is that people who say they believe in god actually don't believe in god. Instead, they just believe that they should believe in god.

Chritianity, for instance, is popular because the values that it observes are attractive to most people. Most people like the idea of living in a peaceful world, having a faithful marriage...etc.

But, they don't really know why they have an appreciation for these values. So, throughout their lives, they struggle with finding the strength to observe them.

So, religion makes an appearance and says, "It's because god said so through his only begotten and magical son."

Suddenly it all makes sense. Simply put: If people really believed in god, they would never sin. Instead they are aware of the concept of a god, and so they try their best to live in his image.

searchlightsoul

Apparently If you don't believe in God or follow a monotheistic religion you can't have a moral system. I mean what sort of line of argument is that?
I really don't want Australia to be come a small America-we have a great country i don't want it getting fucked up. I only wish some of these politician would realise that most people are intelligent enough to not base their political choices on religion (At least in this country).

I would take issue with any idea that fundamentalism is on the increase in young Australians- my friends are either aethists or very loosley religous. Its a media beat up.

pjamdude69

Whatever, fuck religion, fuck god, atheism rules.. Think for yourself..

Blame it on alcohol or whatever, but that's all I got to say about that..

catefrances

Scubascott wrote:

I don't know, maybe its just the circles that I move in. Most of my friends are atheist, and most of the ones who aren't couldn't really be described as being particularly religious. To me its always seemed that Australian society really is very secular, and until last week, I'd always assumed that that also extends to politics. It always gave me a certain sense of smugness to think that unlike the americans, we could at least leave religion out of our political campaigns, even if there is plenty of other stupid rubbish in there. Now I'm not so sure.

Actually if I were to 'pick' a religion in the sense of picking a set of religious concepts and ideals, Judaism would come high on the list. I really like the Jewish concept of forgiveness. It makes a lot more sense to me than the christian one, which always seemed pretty stupid to me.

oh i agree australian society is secular. as to the politics, our politicians seem to be of the misguided notion that they have to court the christian vote. why this is, i have no idea. maybe it's just a passing phase. or perhaps it's a media beef-up. who knows.
as for 'picking a religion', none of them make an iota of sense to me, so i couldn't in all good conscience pick one over the other, even if my life depended on it. which it doesn't and never would.

Scubascott

catefrances wrote:

oh i agree australian society is secular. as to the politics, our politicians seem to be of the misguided notion that they have to court the christian vote. why this is, i have no idea. maybe it's just a passing phase. or perhaps it's a media beef-up. who knows.
as for 'picking a religion', none of them make an iota of sense to me, so i couldn't in all good conscience pick one over the other, even if my life depended on it. which it doesn't and never would.

Maybe they're just trying to hedge their bets. Better to alienate the small muslim population than the much larger proportion of the voting public that identify as christian. In reality it probably is just a media beat-up. I don't actually remember much more than a two or three sentence comment from Kevin Rudd or John Howard on the issue.

The idea of worshipping or even believing in the existence of a supernatural being never made any sense to me, but I think most religions have something to offer in terms of philisophical and moral concepts that can be applied in the context of everyday life. Just leave all the dogma behind.

The Jewish concept I was referring to is that only those that you have wronged can forgive you for what you did to them. That makes much more sense to me than the christian idea of some guy who died 2000 years ago taking repsonsibility for everything you've done wrong. The Jews also have a hell of a lot of holidays. . .

catefrances

Scubascott wrote:

Maybe they're just trying to hedge their bets. Better to alienate the small muslim population than the much larger proportion of the voting public that identify as christian. In reality it probably is just a media beat-up. I don't actually remember much more than a two or three sentence comment from Kevin Rudd or John Howard on the issue.

The idea of worshipping or even believing in the existence of a supernatural being never made any sense to me, but I think most religions have something to offer in terms of philisophical and moral concepts that can be applied in the context of everyday life. Just leave all the dogma behind.

The Jewish concept I was referring to is that only those that you have wronged can forgive you for what you did to them. That makes much more sense to me than the christian idea of some guy who died 2000 years ago taking repsonsibility for everything you've done wrong. The Jews also have a hell of a lot of holidays. . .

what?! australia doesn't have enough public holidays for you?

muslim, christian, jew, hindu. they're all the same to me.
the only forgiveness 'doctrine' i have is i am the only one who has the power to forgive me of anything i do wrong. i am who i have to live with. no one else. their doctrine dismisses me as an atheist so they are of no consequence to me in getting right within myself.
oh yeah it makes so much sense to piss off a minority. it aggravates me that people are categorised. and yeah i do it by dismissing people who believe in God. but i do not judge them as being any less of a person than i am because of it. i just ignore it. a person's religion is no one's business but their own. however if it become prejudicial in any way, then it is everyone's business.

Scubascott

catefrances wrote:

what?! australia doesn't have enough public holidays for you?

Nope. The israelis have it figured out. They seem to have more public holidays than they do working days. I didn't get anything done while I was over there because there was always a bloody holiday on!

Collin

YourBuddy wrote:

Your logic is completely off...

I disagree.

First off not all Muslims wear headdress

I said 'if'.

second not all Irish have an accent,

You will still hear the difference compared to American English. And I said people with another language, not just people with an Irish English accent.

people of african decent can be white as well as black,

Never said anything about African decent. I was talking about skin colour.

id like to see you pick a gay person out of a crowd...

Ok.

so like i said your logic is completely lacking of any genuine thought or consideration.

I disagree.

Considering you dont have to see a person to discriminate also that statement is absolutly off base.

How?

I never said anything about atheists not being discriminated. I just said I think they're not most discriminated against.

hippiemom wrote:

It depends a lot on where you live, too.

True.

Being openly atheist, I'm certainly in a very small minority, but in an urban area in the north it's not really a big deal. In some parts of the country the discrimination is intense.

I think you're right. However, I consider myself openly atheist. But you don't tell everyone you encounter you're an atheist, do you? If no one ever asked me, or there weren't any special situations that would show I am an atheist, not many people would know.

Dog Loyal

sponger wrote:

What I'm saying is that people who say they believe in god actually don't believe in god. Instead, they just believe that they should believe in god.

Chritianity, for instance, is popular because the values that it observes are attractive to most people. Most people like the idea of living in a peaceful world, having a faithful marriage...etc.

But, they don't really know why they have an appreciation for these values. So, throughout their lives, they struggle with finding the strength to observe them.

So, religion makes an appearance and says, "It's because god said so through his only begotten and magical son."

Suddenly it all makes sense. Simply put: If people really believed in god, they would never sin. Instead they are aware of the concept of a god, and so they try their best to live in his image.

No, they really don't. I find that the more religious a person is, the more they engage in utter hipocrisy. Also, it seems presumptuous to say people don't "really believe" in god. Unless you are a mindreader, how can you claim to know what people "really" believe? To say they wouldn't sin if they really believed is a self-serving circular logic.

The Christian value system is not superior to any other. IMO it is deeply flawed. It basically says that all sin is forgivable if you just believe in the bloody god on a stick. Do whatever you want, but BELIEVE in that god and he'll forgive it all. Yeah, I know about the "go and sin no more" but they always do anyway, don't they?