I think a better word for your point is "herding".
I like that.
I myself was home schooled. I finished when I was 16. When I was 18, I got a job working for an interior designer. I am now going on 22, I make good money, and it has confirmed my believe that the best experience....is EXPERIENCE. As far as social things go, I don't see how being teased and mocked is good for a person's psyche. Not to mention being introduced to sex, drugs and alcohol at such a young age. I have NEVER been anti-social. People think I'm confident and very poised. So the whole "public school is necessary for social health" is a load of horse crap.
I think the most important things to learn are these:
1 - Reading
2 - Grammar
3 - Math
And, so far, with what I've seen, few people (who have even gone to college!) are good at any of those things, and it's quite shocking when they are good with all three. What's most important is to have the will to learn, and common sense.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
humans are social animals. we cannot survive alone. isolated people suffer from all kinds of mental disorders and every advancement we've ever made has been the result of our cooperation and working together in a social manner. social convention is not some sort of prison or disorder. it is innate to humans.
Being social should never have to mix with conforming into certain acceptable ways. We should embrace each others differences not expect others to be the same as what we think is right. Society these days has been reduced down to looking out for number one over whats good for the whole.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Mostly all we know until then are preconceived notions. And spending time getting to know your community does a lot to build relationships, friendships, and caring instead of isolation, competition and self serving attitudes.
Very, very good points. We believe what we've learned to be the truth. And yet what we learn represents the truth. That's a big distinction. Many people take their preconceptions to be real, and are out of touch with being and living.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
no, it's not the truth. we both know that being socialized to be dependent iis a bleak path. capitalism permits us to choose our own path. it's the only sytem ever devised by man that allows the pursuit of one's will.
But are we not dependent upon capitalism? isnt it actually pursuit of one's will WITHIN the capitalist system? Same with any other economic system.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Being social should never have to mix with conforming into certain acceptable ways. We should embrace each others differences not expect others to be the same as what we think is right. Society these days has been reduced down to looking out for number one over whats good for the whole.
i dont dispute that our current school system needs some serious change. but to say it is pointless and serves no purpose but to produce drones is ridiculous. it has simply been so watered down by the liberal notion of "one-size-fits-all" schooling that it is a monstrous and ineffective bureaucracy.
this focus on "accepting each other's differences" has led to horribly PC schools where the curriculum is so sprawling and diluted that no student gives shit about learning any of it. there is no tie to community, no room for local flair or flavor. just programming of washington-dc decided necessities that include every whining special interest's chapter regardless of whether or not it is relevant or useful in the classroom.
But are we not dependent upon capitalism? isnt it actually pursuit of one's will WITHIN the capitalist system? Same with any other economic system.
capitalism permits you to pursue whatever it is you want to pursue. i'm not a businessman, but capitalism has allowed me to pursue my dreams. it allows you all to pursue your dreams. it allows anyone to achieve greatness.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
i dont dispute that our current school system needs some serious change. but to say it is pointless and serves no purpose but to produce drones is ridiculous. it has simply been so watered down by the liberal notion of "one-size-fits-all" schooling that it is a monstrous and ineffective bureaucracy.
I agree on some of these points. But public education is made to educate masses...there is no choice. Large groups of kids put together in a classroom to all get taught the same thing is going to make mass produced minds.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree on some of these points. But public education is made to educate masses...there is no choice. Large groups of kids put together in a classroom to all get taught the same thing is going to make mass produced minds.
I wouldn't worry...given the bureacracy, I'm guessing kids aren't learning ANYTHING.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I agree on some of these points. But public education is made to educate masses...there is no choice. Large groups of kids put together in a classroom to all get taught the same thing is going to make mass produced minds.
then perhaps our views are not so divergent. i just see the categorical dismissal of any value in schools to be reactionary and often self-serving... in the "im so hip cos i see what's going on, and all of you who think school is good are brain-washed." at the same time, id do away with federal dept of education, and any federal curriculum standards. id issue one series of tests at maybe 6th grade, and one at 12th to test reading, writing, and arithmetic, and other than that id leave it up to states and communities to decide what they want taught in schools.
capitalism permits you to pursue whatever it is you want to pursue. i'm not a businessman, but capitalism has allowed me to pursue my dreams. it allows you all to pursue your dreams. it allows anyone to achieve greatness.
I agree with what you say here. But to achieve this you must use what you called "one's will" within the parameters of the capitalistic system which defetes the definition of free will. That is all I'm suggesting.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
I agree with what you say here. But to achieve this you must use what you called "one's will" within the parameters of the capitalistic system which defetes the definition of free will. That is all I'm suggesting.
that's the beauty of the capitalist system. "one's will" will only be addressed with incentives. This is why I equate capitalism with freedom...it is up to the individual. Don't get me wrong, capitalism run amok...not so good. regulated capitalism is my ideal form of government. allow people to achieve their greatness, but restrict greed to the nth degree. that's not a hate mongering attitude...is it?
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
thats not true, some kids may look at a certain thing for fact while others may wanna look deeper. its up to U how U wanna look at something
the bottom line is the us educational system is by far the ideal learning environment for our children, it limits it greatly, it doesn't encourage it, discussion, untiy, compassion, cooperativness, community....all of which is of greater significance of the capitol of rhode island or what year columbus sailed... it's pretty much accepting a lot of ppl will not be stimulated enough but the few that do is good enough
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
no, it's not the truth. we both know that being socialized to be dependent iis a bleak path.
I said: "it's true" regarding that our social training goes beyond productive to a point of being where we're being herded. It sounds like you are agreeing with me.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I said: "it's true" regarding that our social training goes beyond productive to a point of being where we're being herded. It sounds like you are agreeing with me.
i don't know..i think that we can only be 'herded' so far as we allow ourselves to be herded as such. again, this is my main point of contention between liberalism and conservatism....the former assumes people are too weak to achieve themselves while the latter assumes that they will, given the tools. but yes, i am biased, i can admit that
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
i don't know..i think that we can only be 'herded' so far as we allow ourselves to be herded as such. again, this is my main point of contention between liberalism and conservatism....the former assumes people are too weak to achieve themselves while the latter assumes that they will, given the tools. but yes, i am biased, i can admit that
Liberals want everyone the chance with the same tools, not just access by the elites to the tools for success.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
i don't know..i think that we can only be 'herded' so far as we allow ourselves to be herded as such. again, this is my main point of contention between liberalism and conservatism....the former assumes people are too weak to achieve themselves while the latter assumes that they will, given the tools. but yes, i am biased, i can admit that
No one ever said we have to have one view or another. I'm an advocate of looking at the whole picture in harmony, rather than through partial views making one or another side right or wrong.
The difference I see between liberalism and conservatism is that liberalism focusses on the outside factors that cause problems in life. And conservatism focusses on the inside factors that cause problems. Both are inherently lacking because they are looking at it in a tunnel-vision view, rather than realistically and in an integrated fashion. *
About being herded, many, many people get stuck in one way and stay there for life. It's not because they can't progress, it's because they go by what they've been taught, not imagining another way.
*this view originates with author Ken Wilber.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Liberals want everyone the chance with the same tools, not just access by the elites to the tools for success.
this is where we are making progress...b/c those of us interested in politics have much more in common than we do differences. The elites ARE interested in their own political power while we are interested in our own lives, and reality.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
No one ever said we have to have one view or another. I'm an advocate of looking at the whole picture in harmony, rather than through partial views making one or another side right or wrong.
The difference I see between liberalism and conservatism is that liberalism focusses on the outside factors that cause problems in life. And conservatism focusses on the inside factors that cause problems. Both are inherently lacking because they are looking at it in a tunnel-vision view, rather than realistically and in an integrated fashion. *
About being herded, many, many people get stuck in one way and stay there for life. It's not because they can't progress, it's because they go by what they've been taught, not imagining another way.
*this view originates with author Ken Wilber.
as usual, a good post
when it comes to capitalism though, i'm a firm believer in the theory of rational choice. it's not necessarily selfish, but we all act in our self interest. that's an important distinction though.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
the bottom line is the us educational system is by far the ideal learning environment for our children, it limits it greatly, it doesn't encourage it, discussion, untiy, compassion, cooperativness, community....all of which is of greater significance of the capitol of rhode island or what year columbus sailed... it's pretty much accepting a lot of ppl will not be stimulated enough but the few that do is good enough
true, i didnt believe any of the stuff i was taught, id learn it and then find out bout what i learned and made my thoughts about it after doing research on it
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
then perhaps our views are not so divergent. i just see the categorical dismissal of any value in schools to be reactionary and often self-serving... in the "im so hip cos i see what's going on, and all of you who think school is good are brain-washed." at the same time, id do away with federal dept of education, and any federal curriculum standards. id issue one series of tests at maybe 6th grade, and one at 12th to test reading, writing, and arithmetic, and other than that id leave it up to states and communities to decide what they want taught in schools.
Sharing wisdom and knowledge with children is not a bad thing. But it can be very difficult to teach children individuality, originality, aspects of community life while being grouped together by age into classrooms under one teacher who is teaching the same way to every child with limited access to the outside world and strict rules to follow to maintain order over large groups of children. It holds them back and limits their potential. They lose out on the importants things needed in life, imo.
I don't think I'm hip or whatever...I wish you wouldn't be so judgemental and combative. I just want to share my thoughts and discuss them. I enjoy your posts and insights even if we are disagreeing but it seems like your often trying to paint me as something you may see me as but I'm actually not that way at all.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
I myself was home schooled. I finished when I was 16. When I was 18, I got a job working for an interior designer. I am now going on 22, I make good money, and it has confirmed my believe that the best experience....is EXPERIENCE. As far as social things go, I don't see how being teased and mocked is good for a person's psyche. Not to mention being introduced to sex, drugs and alcohol at such a young age. I have NEVER been anti-social. People think I'm confident and very poised. So the whole "public school is necessary for social health" is a load of horse crap.
I think the most important things to learn are these:
1 - Reading
2 - Grammar
3 - Math
And, so far, with what I've seen, few people (who have even gone to college!) are good at any of those things, and it's quite shocking when they are good with all three. What's most important is to have the will to learn, and common sense.
Being social should never have to mix with conforming into certain acceptable ways. We should embrace each others differences not expect others to be the same as what we think is right. Society these days has been reduced down to looking out for number one over whats good for the whole.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
But are we not dependent upon capitalism? isnt it actually pursuit of one's will WITHIN the capitalist system? Same with any other economic system.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
i dont dispute that our current school system needs some serious change. but to say it is pointless and serves no purpose but to produce drones is ridiculous. it has simply been so watered down by the liberal notion of "one-size-fits-all" schooling that it is a monstrous and ineffective bureaucracy.
this focus on "accepting each other's differences" has led to horribly PC schools where the curriculum is so sprawling and diluted that no student gives shit about learning any of it. there is no tie to community, no room for local flair or flavor. just programming of washington-dc decided necessities that include every whining special interest's chapter regardless of whether or not it is relevant or useful in the classroom.
capitalism permits you to pursue whatever it is you want to pursue. i'm not a businessman, but capitalism has allowed me to pursue my dreams. it allows you all to pursue your dreams. it allows anyone to achieve greatness.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I agree on some of these points. But public education is made to educate masses...there is no choice. Large groups of kids put together in a classroom to all get taught the same thing is going to make mass produced minds.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I wouldn't worry...given the bureacracy, I'm guessing kids aren't learning ANYTHING.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
then perhaps our views are not so divergent. i just see the categorical dismissal of any value in schools to be reactionary and often self-serving... in the "im so hip cos i see what's going on, and all of you who think school is good are brain-washed." at the same time, id do away with federal dept of education, and any federal curriculum standards. id issue one series of tests at maybe 6th grade, and one at 12th to test reading, writing, and arithmetic, and other than that id leave it up to states and communities to decide what they want taught in schools.
I agree with what you say here. But to achieve this you must use what you called "one's will" within the parameters of the capitalistic system which defetes the definition of free will. That is all I'm suggesting.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
that's the beauty of the capitalist system. "one's will" will only be addressed with incentives. This is why I equate capitalism with freedom...it is up to the individual. Don't get me wrong, capitalism run amok...not so good. regulated capitalism is my ideal form of government. allow people to achieve their greatness, but restrict greed to the nth degree. that's not a hate mongering attitude...is it?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
the bottom line is the us educational system is by far the ideal learning environment for our children, it limits it greatly, it doesn't encourage it, discussion, untiy, compassion, cooperativness, community....all of which is of greater significance of the capitol of rhode island or what year columbus sailed... it's pretty much accepting a lot of ppl will not be stimulated enough but the few that do is good enough
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i don't know..i think that we can only be 'herded' so far as we allow ourselves to be herded as such. again, this is my main point of contention between liberalism and conservatism....the former assumes people are too weak to achieve themselves while the latter assumes that they will, given the tools. but yes, i am biased, i can admit that
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Liberals want everyone the chance with the same tools, not just access by the elites to the tools for success.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
The difference I see between liberalism and conservatism is that liberalism focusses on the outside factors that cause problems in life. And conservatism focusses on the inside factors that cause problems. Both are inherently lacking because they are looking at it in a tunnel-vision view, rather than realistically and in an integrated fashion. *
About being herded, many, many people get stuck in one way and stay there for life. It's not because they can't progress, it's because they go by what they've been taught, not imagining another way.
*this view originates with author Ken Wilber.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
this is where we are making progress...b/c those of us interested in politics have much more in common than we do differences. The elites ARE interested in their own political power while we are interested in our own lives, and reality.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
as usual, a good post
when it comes to capitalism though, i'm a firm believer in the theory of rational choice. it's not necessarily selfish, but we all act in our self interest. that's an important distinction though.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Sharing wisdom and knowledge with children is not a bad thing. But it can be very difficult to teach children individuality, originality, aspects of community life while being grouped together by age into classrooms under one teacher who is teaching the same way to every child with limited access to the outside world and strict rules to follow to maintain order over large groups of children. It holds them back and limits their potential. They lose out on the importants things needed in life, imo.
I don't think I'm hip or whatever...I wish you wouldn't be so judgemental and combative. I just want to share my thoughts and discuss them. I enjoy your posts and insights even if we are disagreeing but it seems like your often trying to paint me as something you may see me as but I'm actually not that way at all.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde