mike, stone, and ed's guitar sound
DiRtyFranK38
Posts: 3,131
hey folks, i'm hoping for some input here..
lately i've been recording myself playing alot of pearl jam songs and for all the songs i want to try and record all three guitar parts if necassary. record each seperatly, so one would think it's three guitar players but it's all me. now my question is...in general what effects should i have on my guitar when playing ed, stone and mike...a song to use as an example can be rearviewmirror or uhh grievance or something.. i want to know what you guys think i should have set for my guitar when playing ed, mike, and stone's parts. i still cannot yet find out how to get mike's sound when soloing and stuff like that..also ed's grungy kinda simple sound i am not creating perfect...also i have two electrics..a michael kelley patriot hot rod, and a tradition deluxe [strat shape]. i have a roland cube 30 amp and a boss gt-3 effect processor. if you are willing to help me out here, paste what i'm going to put below and type your information next to each guitar player. THANK YOU SO MUCH...i'm really trying to master the whole pj sound as best as i can here..
ed:
stone:
mike:
thanks again
lately i've been recording myself playing alot of pearl jam songs and for all the songs i want to try and record all three guitar parts if necassary. record each seperatly, so one would think it's three guitar players but it's all me. now my question is...in general what effects should i have on my guitar when playing ed, stone and mike...a song to use as an example can be rearviewmirror or uhh grievance or something.. i want to know what you guys think i should have set for my guitar when playing ed, mike, and stone's parts. i still cannot yet find out how to get mike's sound when soloing and stuff like that..also ed's grungy kinda simple sound i am not creating perfect...also i have two electrics..a michael kelley patriot hot rod, and a tradition deluxe [strat shape]. i have a roland cube 30 amp and a boss gt-3 effect processor. if you are willing to help me out here, paste what i'm going to put below and type your information next to each guitar player. THANK YOU SO MUCH...i'm really trying to master the whole pj sound as best as i can here..
ed:
stone:
mike:
thanks again
2006: Hartford
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Mike: Overdrive: You'll need a tube screamer or sublte distortion. For solos, use a univibe or chorus type effect along with a wah. Later, you'll wanna use a rotating speaker type effect or somekind of flange. He uses strats usually
Stone: HEAVY overdrive, VERY heavy. He uses Les Pauls usually. Have a wah to use as well.
JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
"Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
for my electrics i have a michael kelley patriot hot rod and a tradition deluxe [strat shape]
i have a roland cube 30 amp..
and a boss gt-3 effect processor which has any effect or sound or tweak ever possible in it..i can mix stuff together to create my own sound...which is good for these three guitarists...because i can store a custom made ed sound and custom stone and mike...which is why i'd like to know how they set up their guitars
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
Suggestions: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Traynor YCV40, Peavey Classic 30
I agree with getting a tube amp, but if that's out of your price range then at least get a TubeScreamer, Blues Driver, i.e some sort of nice overdrive pedal to warm things up. Your setup is icy cold.
I found wiht teh pedal that I used about one sound, and that I could not create a decent sound for myself for the life of me. It's a great starting rig but only takes you so far, and does not really have "tone" as we all understand it. More has sounds !!
The trouble is that those pedals are trying to emulate a tube amp, which by itself will effortlessly give you the tone you want.
I think there are user groups which could help with settings, but pretty much everyone here, including me, will tell you to sideline the pedal and buy a tube amp.
Then just crank up the gain to just before break-up, and your playing dynamics will do the rest.
I'm gonna disagree with the folk who said Stone uses LP, and Mike uses strats, they both use em both and a heap of Teles, and Les Paul Juniors.
None of that sublety will make it through an effects pedal though.
7/9/06 LA 1
7/10/06 LA 2
10/21/06 Bridge 1
i will DEFINITELY look into all this...especially that tube amp..that seems to be quite a reocurring suggesstion...now call me stupid but what exactly is the differance or specialty in a tube amp? i'm not quite sure what a "tube" amp exactly is...i was thinking about getting a marshall but if you guys suggest this i think i should lok into that..but please someone fill me in on exactly what a tube amp is exactly..different then a regular amp.
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
Tube amp just means that it uses vacuum tubes. The other type of amp is 'solid state', or sometimes 'digital', which uses transistors instead. There's nothing wrong with this, but the first amps ever made were tube amps, and they produce a sound that's usually more desirable than what solid state amps can produce (often described as 'warmer'.)
Every amp has a preamp (generates your tone, EQ settings, etc) and a power amp (just makes the preamp signal really loud so it can drive the speakers.)
So a tube amp uses vacuum tubes in the preamp and power amp, whereas a solid state amp just uses transistors. There are some exceptions, most notably the Vox AD series amps, an inexpensive line of amps that uses a vacuum tube in the preamp but solid state power amp.
Tube amps are also desirable because of the way the overdrive, or 'distort'. Generally, tubes distort much more smoothly and warmly than solid state amps. Tube distortion happens basically when so many electrons flow into the tube that it starts to 'overdrive'.
But there is preamp AND power amp distortion. Preamp tube distortion is fairly easy to achieve at low volumes, and sounds really nice. There are lots of pedals on the market that claim to emulate preamp tube distortion, but the general consensus is that nothing comes close to the real thing. However, preamp distortion is easier to emulate than power amp distortion.
Preamp distortion is easy to achieve at low levels because the preamp puts out so little volume. Check out any two-channel tube amp. Turn on the 'dirty' channel, turn up the 'gain' or 'drive' (preamp) all the way, but leave the volume (or 'master', power amp) on 0. You should still be able to hear the awesome distortion, but at a manageable volume.
Power amp distortion only happens one way. TURN IT UP!
Nearly all of classic rock guitar sounds are based on power amp overdrive. Led Zep, The Who, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, you name it.
Sure, turning it up is easy if you're in a giant concert venue, but how do us mere mortals achieve the coveted power amp distortion at neighbor-friendly volumes that won't deafen us?
Enter the power attentuator. This is a device that goes between your amp and speaker, and essentially it 'soaks up' however much of the 'volume' you want it to, and the rest is sent to the speakers. So now it's possible to get the coveted power amp distortion at low volumes.
Now back to your original question, should you get a Marshall? Probably not, but you have to go to the store and try. I know Marshall seems like the most obvious choice, but trust me, there are less expensive, more practical tube amps that you will be just as happy with. Look at the Traynors, maybe Fenders, also check out the Ampeg Reverberocket series and Peavey Classic series. Pearl Jam has used all of the above amps at some point or another (except the Traynors, but trust me they're good.)
It also depends on how loud you need it to be. Generally more wattage (loudness) = more tubes = more $$$ = more weight.
Tube amps are insanely loud compared to solid state.
For bedroom practice, just go for the lowest wattage you can find, because it will probably be the least expensive (Epiphone Valve Jr. series for instance.) This also means you can crank the amp and get the power tube distortion I was talking about (without an attentuator, though you still might need one)
Not only wattage, but also # of and size of the speakers determine how loud it will be. The exact same amp played through two speakers as opposed to one will be much louder.
If you plan on doing gigs anytime in the future, go for at least a 30 watt amp. 50 watts would be safer, but honestly, if you're playing a venue that requires that much power from your amp then there's probably a PA system, and you can mic up your amp.
Is there any specific Pearl Jam era where their guitar sound stood out to you the most? Their guitars, amps and effects have varied greatly over the years, but if you can pinpoint one specifc tour or album, or a few songs that feature guitar sounds you like, it would be helpful?
maybe this will help.
Just play around with the sounds on the GT-3 until you find one you can work with.
Ed is mostly pushed clean. Mike should be some kind of crunchy OD and stone is a heavier crunch sound. Just play with some settings until you find something useable.
It's not really anyones proferred method but sometimes you gotta work with what you got.
that was unbelievably helpful thank you so much!!
ok i really liked the sound of the guitars during the 2000 tour. i can't figure out how to have my guitar have mikes clear distortion sound, but yet enough distortion for him to go crazy soloing.. when i put enough distortion on my guitar for that kinda stuff it gets way to fuzzy..but your whole tube amp and volume explenation pretty much helps me with that..but yea i loved how they sounded in 2000...but also every other year they sounded fantastic as well...as for live stuff i've heard mostly 00, 03, and 06 and i love how they sound. but previous years are greast too and of course the studio.
as for an example of a song...even something like alive...it has enough distortion and stuff for mike to go crazy soloing and for some nice crisp rockin riffs by stone...when i try to get my sound as that it is way too muffled and fuzzed and sounds way to much like a heavy metal song..then when i cut down on it a little more, it doesnt enough ooomf if you know what i mean? i think the main thing is that i need a tube amp...but how do i know if an amp is a tube amp when i'm out buying one..
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
YOu'll find that Mike is punching up a differnet sound, usually by addding more distortion/overdrive during a solo, so it is not realistic to think you can set up one sound for the rhythm and lead parts of pretty much any track
Take a friend who knows about tube amps.
They are easy to spot, the price tag is a give-away !!
Also the sales guy will be eager to tell you it is a tube amp, of course, if he thinks you are a patsy he might sell you a hybrid as a tube amp.
Buy a tube amp, you will be very happy, BUT, and this is a MASSIVE BUT, don't think that any amp is going to give you exact tones for anyone. Guitar tone on a recording is an infinitely complex equation of amps, efffects, compression, processing, mixing, mastering and above all playing dynamics.
Best to get something vaguely close, then work on your chops.
That is surely what I do !!
thanks man!
what do you all think the best brand tube amp to get is?
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
It depends on the budget. I personally would go with a traynor, as you can get the best of both worlds with clean and disortion. Although some swear by the Fender Hot Rods with an OD up front.
JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
"Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
and what exactly does it do..
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
How long is that piece of string?????
Everyone is gonna give you a diffeent answer to this, and there are a bunch of good answers on teh thread below asking for 50watt amp reccos.
For my money, Mesa Boogie is the best, they are awesome amps, you get a shiteload of channles, OD sounds, adn you don't need to add pedals. They last a lifetime and are low maintenence.
You buy them once, BUT they are expensive.
The F series are a bit cheaper, an F30 combo would be a great place to start.
Look for fixed bias amps, cos when you chnage the tubes you don't have to use a tech, very good in teh long run. Peavey also do fixed bias amps, and have a 5yr warranty. Great amps too !!
whats a cheap but good tube amp though...i quaickly browsed prices of the fender hot rod and the traynors and they are all $700 or above!
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
Here's a traynor for $625: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Traynor-YCV40-Custom-Valve-Combo-Amp?sku=480959
and one for $640: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Traynor-Custom-Valve-20WR-YCV20WR-15W-Class-A-1x12-Combo-Amp-with-Celestion-Speaker?sku=480980
If that's still too expensive, take a look on eBay, they're popping up all the time.
Here's the reverberocket I was talking about for $700:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ampeg-R12R-Reverberocket-Amp?sku=481768
should be very similar to Traynors
and here's the peavey classic series: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation?q=peavey+classic
I agree with lucylespian about the Mesa F30, it's a great value for a Mesa, sounds amazing, probably better than anything I mentioned above. Guitar Center should have it.
*** Here is the Epiphone Valve Junior tube combo, $140. This might be what you're looking for. ***
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Valve-Junior-Combo-Amp?sku=480260
Tube Screamer is just an overdrive/boost pedal originally made by Ibanez, now under the Ibanez and Maxon brand names. Should run you $100 - $200, depending on the make and model. Honestly, you don't need one if you have a nice tube amp though, but it will help get some more sounds.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation?q=tube+screamer
What's your budget, if you don't mind my asking?
no i don't mind at all..
well here's the deal. i'm 14 and i've been playing for two years.
i was thinking maybe for my birthday either have my family all chip in and get a really good amp and maybe a tube screamer or whatever. if it was to be one gift from just my parents, i really wouldn't want to push for something over $600 although those first to i MAY be able to get away with..but i really hate asking that much..i'll have to see how things go, my birthday is in may. maybe i can save up myself for a tube scremer or a univibe or something sound porcessor along the lines of what i need for this pearl jam sound. that $134 amp you listed definitely is not what i'm looking for...i'd probobly consider that a downgrade from what i have and i want to have something that lasts. as i listed before i have a roland cube 30 which is a good amp but definitely not what i need. as for my boss gt-3 processor if you are familiar with it, for now are there any effects or settings i can combine together to the pearl jam sound. for the most part, with the equipement i have, i figured it out pretty well and have seemed to get a good enough sound for when i play pearl jam. but this whole tube amp thing i really need to invest in. actually i also have a 50$ giftcard to musicians friend..which can help witha tubescreamer if i get that myself.
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
When I said that teh price tag would give it away, I meant that they are expensive.
A tubescreamer is not really worth adding to your solid state amp, and certainly not to teh effects pedal you have.
You actually already have about teh best budget rig that you could get.
I'm gonna suggest that you spend some more time learning about gear ,a dn playing a lot of different stuff in shops and other musos before you bust your wallet trying to upgrade to a tube amp just yet.
Seriously try accessing some user groups for settings for your GT-3, cos while us tube snobs agree that tubes are teh best, those pedals can give great sounds when set up, and lots of giggin professionals relay on tehm for easy access to teh "right " tones to keep the punters happy.
Tube amps are expensive and loud and not necessarily the best idea for you at present.
They are awesome fun though, and you should try to play some soon.
JEFF HARDY AND JEFF AMENT USED TO LOOK THE SAME
"Pearl Jam always eases my mind and fires me up at the same time.”-Jeff Hardy
Don't get in a snit man, PJ use TS and TUBE amps, not a solid state modelling amp like the Roland. It has similar OD cicuits to the TS already in it, so adding one ain't gonna help.
I know ya'll obsessed with Fender + TS-9 here but that doesn't account for even Mike's Marshall use let alone all the other bands and sounds anyone might want to play along to.
I thought tailoring an answer to a 14yo with limited resources and some pretty decent gear already might be a good thing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TS-9-Ibanez-Tube-Screamer-guitar-pedal_W0QQitemZ120086128807QQihZ002QQcategoryZ64418QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford