Got Tone? Need Help! -- Pedal or P'ups ?
DriftingByTheStorm
Posts: 8,684
[my first M&G forum thread in a while. got distracted by politics]
So,
I was gonna turn this in to the **MEGA TONE** thread, and have everyone throw every comment in the book regarding tone out there at me.
But then i realized, i think the actual question i want answered is more specific to pickups and pedals.
Here is my beef:
I think i have a rocksolid tube head, a great cabinet, and *some* decent gear as far as pedals and guitars go.
However, my tone is still off from where i'd like it.
I want that hot warm butter tone. The kind that oozes out in gobs, with sustain for days, never sounds thin, but when you go to lay out that sweet lead on the high frets of the G, B & E strings really cuts through the bottom as well.
Think any guitar work (solos especially) from Guns N Roses, Neil Young, Jane's Addiction (mostly the solos, like Oceansize or Up The Beach even) ... of course Pearl Jam (and specificaly the sound on things like the solo for NAIS) ... but NOT as far gone as something like Creed (i hate hate hate the ultra thick distorted sound that seems to be comming from space because of the insane amount of studio reverb added. and this is a different sound entirely from what PJ got on Ten. creed must use new marshalls or something)
Ok that should be enough description of what i want to sound like, i imagine.
My tube amp is a attenuator switchable (between 100,50,20, & 10) Eggnater Dual-Tone hand wired head from the early 80's (japanese market) with a Fender channel and a Marshall (Plexi) channel. It has NO GAIN (like the real things from the early days), just LO, Med, Hi and volume for both. Both Hi and Lo inputs on both channels.
The cabinet is a custom EarCandy Buzzbomb with classic rock type speakers (sorry, not the biggest audiophile) wired in stereo.
THE PROBLEM:
I think my lack of *great* tone lies somewhere between my guitar(s) and the pedals I use. I know my output units should be capable of producing some sweet tone.
I have no guitars with really great pickups, and most of my problem is that when i try to do some lead work ... a recent example would be like when i try to cut over the A to B7 hammer on chords at 14th fret on "We Will Rock You" to bust out the solo lick piece ... i fuck it up everytime ... not because i can't get my hands down ... but because the incredible noise coming out my cabinet from the bottom end of the B7 chord essentialy kills whatever puny sound is comming out from the high E string when i hit the solo.
This happens both with my poopey pickups on the Epiphone Les Paul, and with my '73(ish?) SG Pro with soapbar P-90s (this guitar needs some work though, and a fret dressing) ...
I guess I'm wondering what i can do short term with the Epi LP to jack up it's tone. The drive pedal i've been using most is a analogman moded ts909. I also have a dallas electronics (?) copy of a trebleboost pedal that i sometimes use, and a bigmuff (russian) that i didn't use till recently because it sounded like dog shit on my fender delux, though i find it sounds reasonably acceptable (in the sustain dept. but not in the fuzz dept.) through my head\cab combo.
Do you guys have some recommendation on a pedal that would give me killer sustain and drive ... but not muck up my sound so much. The Pi does this way too much and the 909 mucks it up (bleedy fuzz noise) a bit as well.
I still maintain that my biggest problem is the lack of a great guitar and pickups.
Should i put new pups in the epi?
Or should i sell the two other guitars that don't seem to give me what i need(music man sabre II and the aforementioned sg pro with p90s)
... and throw down on a real LP ?
even with a real LP,
aren't the stock pickups still "kind've" week ... or should they be ready to roar?
out of curiousity, do stone and mike change out their pickups or play their LPs stock?
i don't want to "SHRED" per se ... but i do want that thick creamy sound.
I know Van Halen uses an assload of racks, but is it even possible to get that sound (or something like NAIS) on a simple live rig ...
i just want the lead lines to tear out of my guitar without hessitation, and i don't think a pedal will compensate for weak signal output. and i don't want any thing uberhighgain ... no emgs or whatever.
suggestions?
am i dreaming to think i can get tone like that with just new pickups and maybe a new pedal?
So,
I was gonna turn this in to the **MEGA TONE** thread, and have everyone throw every comment in the book regarding tone out there at me.
But then i realized, i think the actual question i want answered is more specific to pickups and pedals.
Here is my beef:
I think i have a rocksolid tube head, a great cabinet, and *some* decent gear as far as pedals and guitars go.
However, my tone is still off from where i'd like it.
I want that hot warm butter tone. The kind that oozes out in gobs, with sustain for days, never sounds thin, but when you go to lay out that sweet lead on the high frets of the G, B & E strings really cuts through the bottom as well.
Think any guitar work (solos especially) from Guns N Roses, Neil Young, Jane's Addiction (mostly the solos, like Oceansize or Up The Beach even) ... of course Pearl Jam (and specificaly the sound on things like the solo for NAIS) ... but NOT as far gone as something like Creed (i hate hate hate the ultra thick distorted sound that seems to be comming from space because of the insane amount of studio reverb added. and this is a different sound entirely from what PJ got on Ten. creed must use new marshalls or something)
Ok that should be enough description of what i want to sound like, i imagine.
My tube amp is a attenuator switchable (between 100,50,20, & 10) Eggnater Dual-Tone hand wired head from the early 80's (japanese market) with a Fender channel and a Marshall (Plexi) channel. It has NO GAIN (like the real things from the early days), just LO, Med, Hi and volume for both. Both Hi and Lo inputs on both channels.
The cabinet is a custom EarCandy Buzzbomb with classic rock type speakers (sorry, not the biggest audiophile) wired in stereo.
THE PROBLEM:
I think my lack of *great* tone lies somewhere between my guitar(s) and the pedals I use. I know my output units should be capable of producing some sweet tone.
I have no guitars with really great pickups, and most of my problem is that when i try to do some lead work ... a recent example would be like when i try to cut over the A to B7 hammer on chords at 14th fret on "We Will Rock You" to bust out the solo lick piece ... i fuck it up everytime ... not because i can't get my hands down ... but because the incredible noise coming out my cabinet from the bottom end of the B7 chord essentialy kills whatever puny sound is comming out from the high E string when i hit the solo.
This happens both with my poopey pickups on the Epiphone Les Paul, and with my '73(ish?) SG Pro with soapbar P-90s (this guitar needs some work though, and a fret dressing) ...
I guess I'm wondering what i can do short term with the Epi LP to jack up it's tone. The drive pedal i've been using most is a analogman moded ts909. I also have a dallas electronics (?) copy of a trebleboost pedal that i sometimes use, and a bigmuff (russian) that i didn't use till recently because it sounded like dog shit on my fender delux, though i find it sounds reasonably acceptable (in the sustain dept. but not in the fuzz dept.) through my head\cab combo.
Do you guys have some recommendation on a pedal that would give me killer sustain and drive ... but not muck up my sound so much. The Pi does this way too much and the 909 mucks it up (bleedy fuzz noise) a bit as well.
I still maintain that my biggest problem is the lack of a great guitar and pickups.
Should i put new pups in the epi?
Or should i sell the two other guitars that don't seem to give me what i need(music man sabre II and the aforementioned sg pro with p90s)
... and throw down on a real LP ?
even with a real LP,
aren't the stock pickups still "kind've" week ... or should they be ready to roar?
out of curiousity, do stone and mike change out their pickups or play their LPs stock?
i don't want to "SHRED" per se ... but i do want that thick creamy sound.
I know Van Halen uses an assload of racks, but is it even possible to get that sound (or something like NAIS) on a simple live rig ...
i just want the lead lines to tear out of my guitar without hessitation, and i don't think a pedal will compensate for weak signal output. and i don't want any thing uberhighgain ... no emgs or whatever.
suggestions?
am i dreaming to think i can get tone like that with just new pickups and maybe a new pedal?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
23 views, and 1 reply about a fender blender?
i guess i've been ostracized.
i should change my name to "threadkiller"
sheesh.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
you are going to have to stack some od's and distortions and sort through a few fuzzes. Be prepared, this is going to take a while.
I whole heartedly recommend looking into the BJFE Emerald Green Distortion Machine as well as a variety of fuzzes and other overdrives.
Stacking that nice fat Analogman TS9 with a nice sparkly drive like the EGDM will yield excellent harmonics and a singing tone, however so will tons of fuzzes.
Pedals are very trial and error, some work fantastic with some setups and not with others. I'd say the big muff is probably wrong for you, you need less gain and more focus in a #2.
Check out the clips at http://www.lovepedal.com on their different pedals because they might fit your need well. In fact Sean's Black Magic distortion is one of the closest "van halen brown sound in a box" types I've heard, but with Van halen, he's using a light guitar with a very open harmonic pickup the amp turned up to max lo volted with a variac and then his amazing playing style obviously. The Seymour Duncan EVH (Evenly Voiced Harmonics) custom shop piece is among the better ones to try as well as the JB I think for that type of sound in a Les Paul.
Also David Barber, is highly underrated in the community, he has some very fine offerings. The new Direct Drive and the Burn Unit should be right up your alley.
You might check out http://www.projectguitar.com and look through the reference for pickups.
http://www.harmony-central.com is a good place to read reviews on stuff.
Try different strings, something more responsive to your pups
also maybe adjust the height of the pup if you can,I don't know your guitar very well.
Keep the big head, buy an A/B box & a small practice amp, preferably an old Marshall, use for crunch & leads, leave the power for the big amps. Nobody you mentioned records without a small amp just for these situations.
Compression & EQ these are essential keep the bottom but tighten it up some. Hit a pawn shop & find an old DOD EQ pedal usually around $20-30. Absolutely worth it for sheer gain that you can get out it. Find a nice comp & you'll be much happier.
If you need an affordable quality pup try this out. Exceptional for a nice price. Very clean, try in the neck 1st.http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/300010/
Eat your pork and beans
I eat more chicken
Than any man ever seen
Unfortunately, really good cables can be kinda spendy. I spent about $50 for the Monster Jazz and about $25 for the Quantum speaker cable, but it was well worth the price (especially when my bass player said that my rig was "chopping down trees" !).
Best of luck on your quest.
Greenbucket
I was going for sounds of slash, pearl jam, and alice in chaines. With the marshall head ive got the guitar sounds way better. In my humble opinion, you never need another pedal to make you sound better, and I dont think cables etc have the big effect on your tone (though someone will correct me).
My advice is to put new pickups in your les paul, and see how you go. Dont see the point in dropping the thousands of Dollars on a Gibson LP. especially seeing as a lot of people change the pickups out of them anyway. Check out the seymour duncan forum, you will get tons of advice on what to upgrade your pickups too.
Cheers