Daniel Hale and Obama's Drone Strike Program

HughFreakingDillon

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

dankind

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

I'm fairly liberal--never a fucking democrat, though--and I'm quite certain I've posted more than a few times about Barack Obama's sky murders. Sorry, "drone strike," sounds too exacting for these criminal atrocities. Fucking targeting children's birthday parties.

In my opinion, he's the best U.S. president of my lifetime, and I still think he should serve time for his crimes. What a country!

Worse was how he boasted/joked about it--Jonas Brothers/Malia. Just fucking heartless.

Note: I have not yet read the article you posted a link to, so apologies if anything I wrote is redundant.

HughFreakingDillon

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

I'm fairly liberal--never a fucking democrat, though--and I'm quite certain I've posted more than a few times about Barack Obama's sky murders. Sorry, "drone strike," sounds too exacting for these criminal atrocities. Fucking targeting children's birthday parties.

In my opinion, he's the best U.S. president of my lifetime, and I still think he should serve time for his crimes. What a country!

Worse was how he boasted/joked about it--Jonas Brothers/Malia. Just fucking heartless.

Note: I have not yet read the article you posted a link to, so apologies if anything I wrote is redundant.

yes, you have, as have a couple others, my point is, on a larger scale, had this been Trump or any other republican president, democrats/liberals would be calling for his lifetime imprisonment for the murder of children and innocents. 

Meltdown99

Obama was just as big a POS as Bush.  He was as big of shit as Trump just for different reasons.  Americans love causing turmoil throughout the world…but Trump caused turmoil within US soil and that is a no no…but it is perfectly ok to fuck with other countries but when other countries fuck with them it’s a no no…

tbergs

I'm on a similar train of thought as most when it comes to Obama. He was a great president and still killed people that shouldn't have been killed, but did so in a way that made it seem more acceptable to most Americans because it wasn't a "war". It was also looked past for the most part because he was/is a good person who balanced out the injustice of drone strikes with other good deeds and acts. To me, this resonated with how most people view themselves and would want to be remembered. They may cause intentional pain and suffering to others because of their decisions, but they want to be forgiven and redeemed because ultimately, they're a good, caring and loving individual. A balance the scales type of mindset. But really, is that even possible or does it make the person more sadistic?

Since I don't think any of us will ever really know Obama's true feelings and thoughts about his actions as president, it's hard to gauge him as a person besides what we see and hear. I assume he carries a bit of guilt and remorse about those actions (not that feeling this absolves responsibility), but if he doesn't I would assume stories would have leaked indicating gloating or pride (besides a poorly made joke at the WH correspondence dinner). What I'm getting at is that Obama, and even Bush, actually seemed to consider the impact to human life and believed what they were doing was the right course of action based on the intel being fed to them by their military and intelligence departments. It doesn't mean it was the right decision, but in some cases blatant lies were told to cover up the truth and push an agenda. Republicans know they can never go after Obama for the drone strikes because ultimately that's part of their rule book, but democrats/liberals who looked past his actions have to use the scale balance theory to try and justify it.

Should Obama be criminally accountable for the drone strikes? Probably, but he never will because we have never held any president accountable for their actions.

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

I'm on a similar train of thought as most when it comes to Obama. He was a great president and still killed people that shouldn't have been killed, but did so in a way that made it seem more acceptable to most Americans because it wasn't a "war". It was also looked past for the most part because he was/is a good person who balanced out the injustice of drone strikes with other good deeds and acts. To me, this resonated with how most people view themselves and would want to be remembered. They may cause intentional pain and suffering to others because of their decisions, but they want to be forgiven and redeemed because ultimately, they're a good, caring and loving individual. A balance the scales type of mindset. But really, is that even possible or does it make the person more sadistic?

Since I don't think any of us will ever really know Obama's true feelings and thoughts about his actions as president, it's hard to gauge him as a person besides what we see and hear. I assume he carries a bit of guilt and remorse about those actions (not that feeling this absolves responsibility), but if he doesn't I would assume stories would have leaked indicating gloating or pride (besides a poorly made joke at the WH correspondence dinner). What I'm getting at is that Obama, and even Bush, actually seemed to consider the impact to human life and believed what they were doing was the right course of action based on the intel being fed to them by their military and intelligence departments. It doesn't mean it was the right decision, but in some cases blatant lies were told to cover up the truth and push an agenda. Republicans know they can never go after Obama for the drone strikes because ultimately that's part of their rule book, but democrats/liberals who looked past his actions have to use the scale balance theory to try and justify it.

Should Obama be criminally accountable for the drone strikes? Probably, but he never will because we have never held any president accountable for their actions.

my point isn't whether obama is or isn't a good person. my point is how the viewpoint is different because of who he was and how he carried himself, and being a democrat. fox news didn't point it out because they agreed with it. CNN/MSNBC didn't point it out because they don't criticize democratic presidents, and damn sure the first black president.

people go out of their way to justify what he did. "intel being fed to him". no one gives Bush a pass for the "intel being fed to him". they call him a bumbling buffoon at best, a war criminal at worst. But with obama gets treated differently, as your post outlines. 

tbergs

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

I'm on a similar train of thought as most when it comes to Obama. He was a great president and still killed people that shouldn't have been killed, but did so in a way that made it seem more acceptable to most Americans because it wasn't a "war". It was also looked past for the most part because he was/is a good person who balanced out the injustice of drone strikes with other good deeds and acts. To me, this resonated with how most people view themselves and would want to be remembered. They may cause intentional pain and suffering to others because of their decisions, but they want to be forgiven and redeemed because ultimately, they're a good, caring and loving individual. A balance the scales type of mindset. But really, is that even possible or does it make the person more sadistic?

Since I don't think any of us will ever really know Obama's true feelings and thoughts about his actions as president, it's hard to gauge him as a person besides what we see and hear. I assume he carries a bit of guilt and remorse about those actions (not that feeling this absolves responsibility), but if he doesn't I would assume stories would have leaked indicating gloating or pride (besides a poorly made joke at the WH correspondence dinner). What I'm getting at is that Obama, and even Bush, actually seemed to consider the impact to human life and believed what they were doing was the right course of action based on the intel being fed to them by their military and intelligence departments. It doesn't mean it was the right decision, but in some cases blatant lies were told to cover up the truth and push an agenda. Republicans know they can never go after Obama for the drone strikes because ultimately that's part of their rule book, but democrats/liberals who looked past his actions have to use the scale balance theory to try and justify it.

Should Obama be criminally accountable for the drone strikes? Probably, but he never will because we have never held any president accountable for their actions.

my point isn't whether obama is or isn't a good person. my point is how the viewpoint is different because of who he was and how he carried himself, and being a democrat. fox news didn't point it out because they agreed with it. CNN/MSNBC didn't point it out because they don't criticize democratic presidents, and damn sure the first black president.

people go out of their way to justify what he did. "intel being fed to him". no one gives Bush a pass for the "intel being fed to him". they call him a bumbling buffoon at best, a war criminal at worst. But with obama gets treated differently, as your post outlines. 

To the point about Bush, that stereotype is drawn from every other observation people made of him under normal circumstances. Just like with Trump. It's more complicated for people with Obama because he possessed both EQ and IQ. Again, not dismissing his responsibility.

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

I'm on a similar train of thought as most when it comes to Obama. He was a great president and still killed people that shouldn't have been killed, but did so in a way that made it seem more acceptable to most Americans because it wasn't a "war". It was also looked past for the most part because he was/is a good person who balanced out the injustice of drone strikes with other good deeds and acts. To me, this resonated with how most people view themselves and would want to be remembered. They may cause intentional pain and suffering to others because of their decisions, but they want to be forgiven and redeemed because ultimately, they're a good, caring and loving individual. A balance the scales type of mindset. But really, is that even possible or does it make the person more sadistic?

Since I don't think any of us will ever really know Obama's true feelings and thoughts about his actions as president, it's hard to gauge him as a person besides what we see and hear. I assume he carries a bit of guilt and remorse about those actions (not that feeling this absolves responsibility), but if he doesn't I would assume stories would have leaked indicating gloating or pride (besides a poorly made joke at the WH correspondence dinner). What I'm getting at is that Obama, and even Bush, actually seemed to consider the impact to human life and believed what they were doing was the right course of action based on the intel being fed to them by their military and intelligence departments. It doesn't mean it was the right decision, but in some cases blatant lies were told to cover up the truth and push an agenda. Republicans know they can never go after Obama for the drone strikes because ultimately that's part of their rule book, but democrats/liberals who looked past his actions have to use the scale balance theory to try and justify it.

Should Obama be criminally accountable for the drone strikes? Probably, but he never will because we have never held any president accountable for their actions.

my point isn't whether obama is or isn't a good person. my point is how the viewpoint is different because of who he was and how he carried himself, and being a democrat. fox news didn't point it out because they agreed with it. CNN/MSNBC didn't point it out because they don't criticize democratic presidents, and damn sure the first black president.

people go out of their way to justify what he did. "intel being fed to him". no one gives Bush a pass for the "intel being fed to him". they call him a bumbling buffoon at best, a war criminal at worst. But with obama gets treated differently, as your post outlines. 

To the point about Bush, that stereotype is drawn from every other observation people made of him under normal circumstances. Just like with Trump. It's more complicated for people with Obama because he possessed both EQ and IQ. Again, not dismissing his responsibility.

Bush was actually affable prior to 9/11, wasn't he?

tbergs

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

I'm on a similar train of thought as most when it comes to Obama. He was a great president and still killed people that shouldn't have been killed, but did so in a way that made it seem more acceptable to most Americans because it wasn't a "war". It was also looked past for the most part because he was/is a good person who balanced out the injustice of drone strikes with other good deeds and acts. To me, this resonated with how most people view themselves and would want to be remembered. They may cause intentional pain and suffering to others because of their decisions, but they want to be forgiven and redeemed because ultimately, they're a good, caring and loving individual. A balance the scales type of mindset. But really, is that even possible or does it make the person more sadistic?

Since I don't think any of us will ever really know Obama's true feelings and thoughts about his actions as president, it's hard to gauge him as a person besides what we see and hear. I assume he carries a bit of guilt and remorse about those actions (not that feeling this absolves responsibility), but if he doesn't I would assume stories would have leaked indicating gloating or pride (besides a poorly made joke at the WH correspondence dinner). What I'm getting at is that Obama, and even Bush, actually seemed to consider the impact to human life and believed what they were doing was the right course of action based on the intel being fed to them by their military and intelligence departments. It doesn't mean it was the right decision, but in some cases blatant lies were told to cover up the truth and push an agenda. Republicans know they can never go after Obama for the drone strikes because ultimately that's part of their rule book, but democrats/liberals who looked past his actions have to use the scale balance theory to try and justify it.

Should Obama be criminally accountable for the drone strikes? Probably, but he never will because we have never held any president accountable for their actions.

my point isn't whether obama is or isn't a good person. my point is how the viewpoint is different because of who he was and how he carried himself, and being a democrat. fox news didn't point it out because they agreed with it. CNN/MSNBC didn't point it out because they don't criticize democratic presidents, and damn sure the first black president.

people go out of their way to justify what he did. "intel being fed to him". no one gives Bush a pass for the "intel being fed to him". they call him a bumbling buffoon at best, a war criminal at worst. But with obama gets treated differently, as your post outlines. 

To the point about Bush, that stereotype is drawn from every other observation people made of him under normal circumstances. Just like with Trump. It's more complicated for people with Obama because he possessed both EQ and IQ. Again, not dismissing his responsibility.

Bush was actually affable prior to 9/11, wasn't he?

Yeah, but still sounded like a moron with his "Bushisms". 

CM189191

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

What is there to discuss?

cblock4life

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

Stirring the pot, starting a ruckus  

Like others, I really don’t consider myself belonging to either party.  I guess the one doing the least amount of damage to the country and our people at the time will always be my choice. 

Also, I’ve said this before and I’ve read it here from others (I think)..  an ass is an ass is an ass no matter the color of the skin or political affiliation.  

Honestly, if Cheney and Kinzinger ran tomorrow I’d probably vote for them if their covid beliefs are in line with mine.  Biden is doing very well handling everything like a normal politician would, but it’s going to take people like Cheney and Kinzinger to take Trump down and fix the Republican Party. 

HughFreakingDillon

cblock4life said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

Stirring the pot, starting a ruckus  

Like others, I really don’t consider myself belonging to either party.  I guess the one doing the least amount of damage to the country and our people at the time will always be my choice. 

Also, I’ve said this before and I’ve read it here from others (I think)..  an ass is an ass is an ass no matter the color of the skin or political affiliation.  

Honestly, if Cheney and Kinzinger ran tomorrow I’d probably vote for them if their covid beliefs are in line with mine.  Biden is doing very well handling everything like a normal politician would, but it’s going to take people like Cheney and Kinzinger to take Trump down and fix the Republican Party. 

this confuses me. who is stirring the pot?

cblock4life

HughFreakingDillon said:

cblock4life said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

Stirring the pot, starting a ruckus  

Like others, I really don’t consider myself belonging to either party.  I guess the one doing the least amount of damage to the country and our people at the time will always be my choice. 

Also, I’ve said this before and I’ve read it here from others (I think)..  an ass is an ass is an ass no matter the color of the skin or political affiliation.  

Honestly, if Cheney and Kinzinger ran tomorrow I’d probably vote for them if their covid beliefs are in line with mine.  Biden is doing very well handling everything like a normal politician would, but it’s going to take people like Cheney and Kinzinger to take Trump down and fix the Republican Party. 

this confuses me. who is stirring the pot?

I’m just teasin’, sorry.  It just seemed like a loaded question…..I swear on my grandchildren up in the corner it was really just a joke. 😔🙃

HughFreakingDillon

cblock4life said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cblock4life said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I gotta admit, I've always been puzzled by liberals/democrats inability or even outright refusal to even discuss Obama's drone strike program like they would have had it been a republican president. 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/07/28/hale-j28.html

Stirring the pot, starting a ruckus  

Like others, I really don’t consider myself belonging to either party.  I guess the one doing the least amount of damage to the country and our people at the time will always be my choice. 

Also, I’ve said this before and I’ve read it here from others (I think)..  an ass is an ass is an ass no matter the color of the skin or political affiliation.  

Honestly, if Cheney and Kinzinger ran tomorrow I’d probably vote for them if their covid beliefs are in line with mine.  Biden is doing very well handling everything like a normal politician would, but it’s going to take people like Cheney and Kinzinger to take Trump down and fix the Republican Party. 

this confuses me. who is stirring the pot?

I’m just teasin’, sorry.  It just seemed like a loaded question…..I swear on my grandchildren up in the corner it was really just a joke. 😔🙃

I believe you, lol, I just didn't know what was stirring about it, coupled with CM's question "what's to discuss". I think there's lots to discuss about this. I'm not claiming that Trump was right about fake news, but the idea that the news is biased is pretty accurate. I don't recall the outrage, because I don't think there was much of it. And that's troubling. 

cblock4life

Well I guessed/assumed that the postings would be more numerous and confrontational between the two parties so I tried to be funny and lighten the mood but as usual I failed at both.  I’m in the middle, I loved Obama as President, it represented so many wonderful things about this country, but he isn’t, wasn’t God and he’s a politician so right there is reason to stay guarded and never be surprised about what any politician would do.  It’s all equal to me 

brianlux

I'm far more pro-democrat than republican but the fact remains, most Democrat presidents (as well as Republican) have generally been warring president.  We're a war like nation and both sides are responsible.  America literally thrives on war.  Many Democrats seem to have a difficult time admitting that and that makes the party the worse for it.

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

I'm far more pro-democrat than republican but the fact remains, most Democrat presidents (as well as Republican) have generally been warring president.  We're a war like nation and both sides are responsible.  America literally thrives on war.  Many Democrats seem to have a difficult time admitting that and that makes the party the worse for it.

no doubt about it. I have found over the years that democrats are just better at hiding that. Or giving more humanitarian reasons for it (true or not). in my "politically ignorant" years (some here would say I'm in the middle of them lol), I always thought it was a republican thing. Came to find out that's not true at all. 

gimmesometruth27

i am a liberal and i will condemn drone use by any president. i feel it is a cowardly tactic. the drone is controlled by someone in a room half a world away. the person controlling it risks nothing. to me it is as cowardly as placing a roadside bomb, or booby trapping a teddy bear in vietnam.

if you are gonna do military shit, you gotta risk your own people to do it.

brianlux

Fellow Democrat Ethan Hawke starred in this excellent film, "Good Kill", that is both revealing and sometimes quite brutal and disturbing film about drone strikes.  Horrifying though it may be (and I'm not not generally a fan of the horrific), I do recommend this one:

jpgoegel

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am a liberal and i will condemn drone use by any president. i feel it is a cowardly tactic. the drone is controlled by someone in a room half a world away. the person controlling it risks nothing. to me it is as cowardly as placing a roadside bomb, or booby trapping a teddy bear in vietnam.

if you are gonna do military shit, you gotta risk your own people to do it.

not that i disagree, as I find drone strikes abhorrent.   to some degree though is not the same mindset as do we drop bombs what will incinerate 100,000s of japanese or risk our troops in a land invasion?    little risk (worst case a few bombers get shot down) versus huge risk (10,000s die in a land invasion).   granted a drone strike has zero risk involved in the operator sense, so it's not a perfect example,  but we seem to have gone down that path since that decision was made 

Meltdown99

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am a liberal and i will condemn drone use by any president. i feel it is a cowardly tactic. the drone is controlled by someone in a room half a world away. the person controlling it risks nothing. to me it is as cowardly as placing a roadside bomb, or booby trapping a teddy bear in vietnam.

if you are gonna do military shit, you gotta risk your own people to do it.

How bout' the politicians and their families including their wives be the 1st one-off the landing crafts in any war...maybe they'd think twice???

But at the very least, those Americans that are so gung ho for war should at least join and bring their families with them...perhaps they could tailgate and have a family reunion.

Obama is nothing but a coward, just like every President...

The US has no moral authority in this world...