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Iran Deal, the reset.....

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,612
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Now if you are all done attacking the messenger we can back to the news...

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-iran-rivalry-yemen-deepens-mideast-sectarianism-30368937?singlePage=true

    This shit is real whether I enlist or not. Everyday things get worse. Al qaeda just took over an airport, oil port and sea port in Yemen. Ramadi is falling. We will either be sucked in on our terms or on someone elses. We need to be proactive and not reactive. We as the west need to decide what our principles are and take action before it's too late.



    Edit - Had to add that Egyptian tv is now asking Israel to hit Iran. None of this will end well.

    Lol, a 12 second sound bite taken out of context? Why the fuck would Israel need to refuel to bomb Iran? This video you posted didn't clarify shit except that you have a hard on for dropping bombs on Muslim countries. IsrAel killed over 500 kids and that's ok. Iran has killed how many kids? Is that more or less then 500?

    Edit- I hope to god your kids enlist. Someone like you that writes checks with their mouth deserves to stay up at night wondering if their kids are safe walking the streets of Iran. Night after night
    This is a muslim country having a hard on for dropping bombs on another muslim country.
    No, this is a Muslim country having a hard on for the US to drop bombs on another Muslim country.

    Answer me this BS, why haven't the republicans in Congress, with majorities in both houses, not voted, or even held hearings, on Obama's request to wage war on ISIS, as required by the War Powers Act? Why no criticism of the republicans in Congress for letting everything go to hell? Where is your outrage? Where is Rand? Cotton? Rubio? Christie? McConnell? Beohner? Where is the leadership that you allege is so sorely lacking? Walker? Where is the brain trust you so solidly believe in? Where oh where has my chickenhawk gone, where or where has he gone?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,158
    No need to apologize to me, Halifax! My post was about sharing my view and personal history with the culture - not an attempt at one-upping.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Thanks for those awesome posts H2M. Unfortunately mr BS will NOT be reading them because he's too busy looking for more bullshit articles and videos into bombing Iran to feed his SICKNESS.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    rr165892 said:

    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
    Look, I can't speak for Iran but I've been to the Middle East a couple of times and spent some time in Syria before all hell broke loose. I hung out with Christians in Syria who had no problem what so ever and never complained to me about the way they are treated. When is everyone gonna finally realize that the media is preconditioning your mind to accept all the shit they want you to believe. When I walked around Syria and people found out I was American, they'd invite me over for dinner/tea hookah whatever. And no they DIDNT try to sell me their daughters. The Arab population doesn't have a problem with Americans, but they do have a problem with our leaders.
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,158
    rr165892 said:


    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.

    Morning, rr! I'm guessing if any still in Iran, very very distant relatives. I've definitely seen a movement (via documentaries and the like) of the younger generation actually having broken out already. It's beautiful.

    Also, to tack on to my earlier and slightly long-winded post, I inherited my father's physical traits - fair skin, light eyes, blonde hair (though now a redhead =) ). Even here in CA, my olive-skinned mom would get odd looks when she took me out in the stroller. So, in Iran, that drastic difference in appearance was notably noticed; some in embracing ways and others, not so much.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
    Look, I can't speak for Iran but I've been to the Middle East a couple of times and spent some time in Syria before all hell broke loose. I hung out with Christians in Syria who had no problem what so ever and never complained to me about the way they are treated. When is everyone gonna finally realize that the media is preconditioning your mind to accept all the shit they want you to believe. When I walked around Syria and people found out I was American, they'd invite me over for dinner/tea hookah whatever. And no they DIDNT try to sell me their daughters. The Arab population doesn't have a problem with Americans, but they do have a problem with our leaders.
    Of course the media blows things out of proportion.People are people for the most part everywhere.But to piggy back my question to Hedo,Do you think there is a racial tolerance toward your run of the mill(non over the top Zionist) Jews in Iran and Syria.Both have populations,all be it small?
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    hedonist said:

    rr165892 said:


    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.

    Morning, rr! I'm guessing if any still in Iran, very very distant relatives. I've definitely seen a movement (via documentaries and the like) of the younger generation actually having broken out already. It's beautiful.

    Also, to tack on to my earlier and slightly long-winded post, I inherited my father's physical traits - fair skin, light eyes, blonde hair (though now a redhead =) ). Even here in CA, my olive-skinned mom would get odd looks when she took me out in the stroller. So, in Iran, that drastic difference in appearance was notably noticed; some in embracing ways and others, not so much.
    Good morning!Welcome to friday.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,361
    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
    Look, I can't speak for Iran but I've been to the Middle East a couple of times and spent some time in Syria before all hell broke loose. I hung out with Christians in Syria who had no problem what so ever and never complained to me about the way they are treated. When is everyone gonna finally realize that the media is preconditioning your mind to accept all the shit they want you to believe. When I walked around Syria and people found out I was American, they'd invite me over for dinner/tea hookah whatever. And no they DIDNT try to sell me their daughters. The Arab population doesn't have a problem with Americans, but they do have a problem with our leaders.
    Interesting! We went to Morocco as a family and had a very different experience. We were actually offered three camels in exchange for my sister. My dad, ever the bargainer, said he wouldn't do it for less than four. Regrettably, that was too much and the deal was off. I still think about my camel brothers and sisters that could've been. So many humps.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
    My life is pretty awesome actually
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
    My life is pretty awesome actually
    I could careless, how about letting other people have awesome lives without the threat of bombing them?
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Now if you are all done attacking the messenger we can back to the news...

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-iran-rivalry-yemen-deepens-mideast-sectarianism-30368937?singlePage=true

    This shit is real whether I enlist or not. Everyday things get worse. Al qaeda just took over an airport, oil port and sea port in Yemen. Ramadi is falling. We will either be sucked in on our terms or on someone elses. We need to be proactive and not reactive. We as the west need to decide what our principles are and take action before it's too late.



    Edit - Had to add that Egyptian tv is now asking Israel to hit Iran. None of this will end well.

    Lol, a 12 second sound bite taken out of context? Why the fuck would Israel need to refuel to bomb Iran? This video you posted didn't clarify shit except that you have a hard on for dropping bombs on Muslim countries. IsrAel killed over 500 kids and that's ok. Iran has killed how many kids? Is that more or less then 500?

    Edit- I hope to god your kids enlist. Someone like you that writes checks with their mouth deserves to stay up at night wondering if their kids are safe walking the streets of Iran. Night after night
    This is a muslim country having a hard on for dropping bombs on another muslim country.
    No, this is a Muslim country having a hard on for the US to drop bombs on another Muslim country.

    Answer me this BS, why haven't the republicans in Congress, with majorities in both houses, not voted, or even held hearings, on Obama's request to wage war on ISIS, as required by the War Powers Act? Why no criticism of the republicans in Congress for letting everything go to hell? Where is your outrage? Where is Rand? Cotton? Rubio? Christie? McConnell? Beohner? Where is the leadership that you allege is so sorely lacking? Walker? Where is the brain trust you so solidly believe in? Where oh where has my chickenhawk gone, where or where has he gone?
    Obama's request to "wage war" on ISIS would prevent the use of ground troops. This would tie the hands of the military and possibly the next president. This is a non-starter if you really believe in "waging war". Also calling Cotton a chickenhawk is pretty stupid.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
    Look, I can't speak for Iran but I've been to the Middle East a couple of times and spent some time in Syria before all hell broke loose. I hung out with Christians in Syria who had no problem what so ever and never complained to me about the way they are treated. When is everyone gonna finally realize that the media is preconditioning your mind to accept all the shit they want you to believe. When I walked around Syria and people found out I was American, they'd invite me over for dinner/tea hookah whatever. And no they DIDNT try to sell me their daughters. The Arab population doesn't have a problem with Americans, but they do have a problem with our leaders.
    There was nothing great about Syria even before all hell broke loose. This article by the late, great Christopher Hitchens is quite illuminating

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2009/05/christopher-hitchens200905
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
    My life is pretty awesome actually
    I could careless, how about letting other people have awesome lives without the threat of bombing them?
    You care tons. You can't quit me. I am the first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning and the last thing you think about when you go to bed at night. Now as far as the Iranians go...I want them to have awesome lives. I would like to see their green revolution realized. I would like to see them have full rights. I would like to see their women be liberated. I would like to see their LGBT community not be hung from lamposts. They are good people trapped under a religious tyranny. It's a shame that you have abandoned them.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,612
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Now if you are all done attacking the messenger we can back to the news...

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-iran-rivalry-yemen-deepens-mideast-sectarianism-30368937?singlePage=true

    This shit is real whether I enlist or not. Everyday things get worse. Al qaeda just took over an airport, oil port and sea port in Yemen. Ramadi is falling. We will either be sucked in on our terms or on someone elses. We need to be proactive and not reactive. We as the west need to decide what our principles are and take action before it's too late.



    Edit - Had to add that Egyptian tv is now asking Israel to hit Iran. None of this will end well.

    Lol, a 12 second sound bite taken out of context? Why the fuck would Israel need to refuel to bomb Iran? This video you posted didn't clarify shit except that you have a hard on for dropping bombs on Muslim countries. IsrAel killed over 500 kids and that's ok. Iran has killed how many kids? Is that more or less then 500?

    Edit- I hope to god your kids enlist. Someone like you that writes checks with their mouth deserves to stay up at night wondering if their kids are safe walking the streets of Iran. Night after night
    This is a muslim country having a hard on for dropping bombs on another muslim country.
    No, this is a Muslim country having a hard on for the US to drop bombs on another Muslim country.

    Answer me this BS, why haven't the republicans in Congress, with majorities in both houses, not voted, or even held hearings, on Obama's request to wage war on ISIS, as required by the War Powers Act? Why no criticism of the republicans in Congress for letting everything go to hell? Where is your outrage? Where is Rand? Cotton? Rubio? Christie? McConnell? Beohner? Where is the leadership that you allege is so sorely lacking? Walker? Where is the brain trust you so solidly believe in? Where oh where has my chickenhawk gone, where or where has he gone?
    Obama's request to "wage war" on ISIS would prevent the use of ground troops. This would tie the hands of the military and possibly the next president. This is a non-starter if you really believe in "waging war". Also calling Cotton a chickenhawk is pretty stupid.
    So, are you suggesting the use of ground troops against Iran? Okay to bomb Iran but not ISIS? Man, you are all over the map on this. And yes, Cotton is a Chicken Hawk because he, along with his party, demanded Obama do something about ISIS. Obama then sent a request to the republican Congress requesting authorization to use force, as required under the War Powers Act (I know, that pesky Constitution). The republicans have since turned tail and run, in effect, abandoning the commander in chief, without even a debate no less. That is a Chicken Hawk of the highest order. Why no debate? Why no vote? Blame Obama, demand war but put no skin in the game. Fucking pussies, Cotton included. And don't forget Cotton communicating with the enemy with his dipshit letter. What a tool. Maybe you'd like to move to Arkansas so he can represent you?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,158
    benjs said:

    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
    Look, I can't speak for Iran but I've been to the Middle East a couple of times and spent some time in Syria before all hell broke loose. I hung out with Christians in Syria who had no problem what so ever and never complained to me about the way they are treated. When is everyone gonna finally realize that the media is preconditioning your mind to accept all the shit they want you to believe. When I walked around Syria and people found out I was American, they'd invite me over for dinner/tea hookah whatever. And no they DIDNT try to sell me their daughters. The Arab population doesn't have a problem with Americans, but they do have a problem with our leaders.
    Interesting! We went to Morocco as a family and had a very different experience. We were actually offered three camels in exchange for my sister. My dad, ever the bargainer, said he wouldn't do it for less than four. Regrettably, that was too much and the deal was off. I still think about my camel brothers and sisters that could've been. So many humps.
    I love this.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Now if you are all done attacking the messenger we can back to the news...

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-iran-rivalry-yemen-deepens-mideast-sectarianism-30368937?singlePage=true

    This shit is real whether I enlist or not. Everyday things get worse. Al qaeda just took over an airport, oil port and sea port in Yemen. Ramadi is falling. We will either be sucked in on our terms or on someone elses. We need to be proactive and not reactive. We as the west need to decide what our principles are and take action before it's too late.



    Edit - Had to add that Egyptian tv is now asking Israel to hit Iran. None of this will end well.

    Lol, a 12 second sound bite taken out of context? Why the fuck would Israel need to refuel to bomb Iran? This video you posted didn't clarify shit except that you have a hard on for dropping bombs on Muslim countries. IsrAel killed over 500 kids and that's ok. Iran has killed how many kids? Is that more or less then 500?

    Edit- I hope to god your kids enlist. Someone like you that writes checks with their mouth deserves to stay up at night wondering if their kids are safe walking the streets of Iran. Night after night
    This is a muslim country having a hard on for dropping bombs on another muslim country.
    No, this is a Muslim country having a hard on for the US to drop bombs on another Muslim country.

    Answer me this BS, why haven't the republicans in Congress, with majorities in both houses, not voted, or even held hearings, on Obama's request to wage war on ISIS, as required by the War Powers Act? Why no criticism of the republicans in Congress for letting everything go to hell? Where is your outrage? Where is Rand? Cotton? Rubio? Christie? McConnell? Beohner? Where is the leadership that you allege is so sorely lacking? Walker? Where is the brain trust you so solidly believe in? Where oh where has my chickenhawk gone, where or where has he gone?
    Obama's request to "wage war" on ISIS would prevent the use of ground troops. This would tie the hands of the military and possibly the next president. This is a non-starter if you really believe in "waging war". Also calling Cotton a chickenhawk is pretty stupid.
    So, are you suggesting the use of ground troops against Iran? Okay to bomb Iran but not ISIS? Man, you are all over the map on this. And yes, Cotton is a Chicken Hawk because he, along with his party, demanded Obama do something about ISIS. Obama then sent a request to the republican Congress requesting authorization to use force, as required under the War Powers Act (I know, that pesky Constitution). The republicans have since turned tail and run, in effect, abandoning the commander in chief, without even a debate no less. That is a Chicken Hawk of the highest order. Why no debate? Why no vote? Blame Obama, demand war but put no skin in the game. Fucking pussies, Cotton included. And don't forget Cotton communicating with the enemy with his dipshit letter. What a tool. Maybe you'd like to move to Arkansas so he can represent you?
    Now now...don't lose your cool. Cotton left law and served in Iraq and Afganistan from 2005 - 2009. He was on the ground. Not a chickenhawk. When he comments on Iran it comes from someone who actually fought Iranian militia on the ground in Iraq. Not a chickenhawk. Since Iranians shot at him and his buddies he tends to find it just a little disturbing that they are on an uninterrupted path to a bomb. Anyways, I'm not sure if you've been reading your buddy BB's posts but according to him once you serve you are entitled to say whatever you want on matters of war and peace.

    Now again...as far as the war authority you want so bad to fight ISIS (not Iran)...Obama had to remove the use of ground troops in order to placate democrats. This was unacceptable to republicans who truly want to fight ISIS along with pretty much everyone in the military. That kind of deal only ties a general's hands. ISIS can not be bombed out of existance. Some kind of ground forces will be necessary if you actually want victory. Since the current AUMF that is already on the books allows for ground troops, why the hell would the republicans vote on a new AUMF that restricts ground troops? Obama already has congressional authority to fight ISIS...the original one never expired.

    Lastly...no need to move to Arkansas...got a great home in Toronto...plus PJ plays here more.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,612
    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Now if you are all done attacking the messenger we can back to the news...

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-iran-rivalry-yemen-deepens-mideast-sectarianism-30368937?singlePage=true

    This shit is real whether I enlist or not. Everyday things get worse. Al qaeda just took over an airport, oil port and sea port in Yemen. Ramadi is falling. We will either be sucked in on our terms or on someone elses. We need to be proactive and not reactive. We as the west need to decide what our principles are and take action before it's too late.



    Edit - Had to add that Egyptian tv is now asking Israel to hit Iran. None of this will end well.

    Lol, a 12 second sound bite taken out of context? Why the fuck would Israel need to refuel to bomb Iran? This video you posted didn't clarify shit except that you have a hard on for dropping bombs on Muslim countries. IsrAel killed over 500 kids and that's ok. Iran has killed how many kids? Is that more or less then 500?

    Edit- I hope to god your kids enlist. Someone like you that writes checks with their mouth deserves to stay up at night wondering if their kids are safe walking the streets of Iran. Night after night
    This is a muslim country having a hard on for dropping bombs on another muslim country.
    No, this is a Muslim country having a hard on for the US to drop bombs on another Muslim country.

    Answer me this BS, why haven't the republicans in Congress, with majorities in both houses, not voted, or even held hearings, on Obama's request to wage war on ISIS, as required by the War Powers Act? Why no criticism of the republicans in Congress for letting everything go to hell? Where is your outrage? Where is Rand? Cotton? Rubio? Christie? McConnell? Beohner? Where is the leadership that you allege is so sorely lacking? Walker? Where is the brain trust you so solidly believe in? Where oh where has my chickenhawk gone, where or where has he gone?
    Obama's request to "wage war" on ISIS would prevent the use of ground troops. This would tie the hands of the military and possibly the next president. This is a non-starter if you really believe in "waging war". Also calling Cotton a chickenhawk is pretty stupid.
    So, are you suggesting the use of ground troops against Iran? Okay to bomb Iran but not ISIS? Man, you are all over the map on this. And yes, Cotton is a Chicken Hawk because he, along with his party, demanded Obama do something about ISIS. Obama then sent a request to the republican Congress requesting authorization to use force, as required under the War Powers Act (I know, that pesky Constitution). The republicans have since turned tail and run, in effect, abandoning the commander in chief, without even a debate no less. That is a Chicken Hawk of the highest order. Why no debate? Why no vote? Blame Obama, demand war but put no skin in the game. Fucking pussies, Cotton included. And don't forget Cotton communicating with the enemy with his dipshit letter. What a tool. Maybe you'd like to move to Arkansas so he can represent you?
    Now now...don't lose your cool. Cotton left law and served in Iraq and Afganistan from 2005 - 2009. He was on the ground. Not a chickenhawk. When he comments on Iran it comes from someone who actually fought Iranian militia on the ground in Iraq. Not a chickenhawk. Since Iranians shot at him and his buddies he tends to find it just a little disturbing that they are on an uninterrupted path to a bomb. Anyways, I'm not sure if you've been reading your buddy BB's posts but according to him once you serve you are entitled to say whatever you want on matters of war and peace.

    Now again...as far as the war authority you want so bad to fight ISIS (not Iran)...Obama had to remove the use of ground troops in order to placate democrats. This was unacceptable to republicans who truly want to fight ISIS along with pretty much everyone in the military. That kind of deal only ties a general's hands. ISIS can not be bombed out of existance. Some kind of ground forces will be necessary if you actually want victory. Since the current AUMF that is already on the books allows for ground troops, why the hell would the republicans vote on a new AUMF that restricts ground troops? Obama already has congressional authority to fight ISIS...the original one never expired.

    Lastly...no need to move to Arkansas...got a great home in Toronto...plus PJ plays here more.
    Of what AUMF do you speak? None of the current AUMF's passed and on the books authorize Obama to use force against ISIS. In fact, the ones that have been passed and are on the books are quite specific in their scope and application. Please, enlighten me on which AUMF allows Obama to do what you'd like done? Being well defined in the scope and mission is what was intended when the War Powers Resolution was created, to prevent the president from having a blank check to use military force. Now then, don't you think that if the bombing campaign wasn't sufficient to stop ISIS and ground forces were necessary, that the generals with their hands tied, would appeal and loudly so to the commander in chief to return to congress and request another AUMF authorizing ground troops? And wouldn't the chicken hawk republicans vote to authorize it?

    Don't forget, the Iraqi military is incapable of defeating ISIS on their own. GWB agreed to withdraw US troops in 2011 per his agreement, that Obama dutifully carried out. The Shia militias have balked at having US troops or even US directed airstrikes on their behalf. So, what do we do? Re-invade Iraq? And if that's the answer, why isn't Chicken Hawk Cotton calling for a bill, resolution, debate, anything other than blaming Obama for the current state of affairs?

    Why isn't Cotton still in the military? Why did he get out? Maybe he knows we'd get our asses kicked if we went back? Because he knows taking on Iran is a whole other ball of wax? So, again, explain to me how it would be okay to bomb Iran but not to bomb ISIS? Again, are you arguing for ground troops to invade Iran? Re-invade Iraq? Wouldn't it be better to side with Iran against ISIS? Explain to me how this plays out and where you stand or would like to see the US do. And your characterization of Cotton being concerned that Iran is on an uninterrupted path to the bomb, isn't a ten year "trust but verify" interrupting Iran's path to the bomb? Cotton may have served in Iraq but he has a lot to learn as a senator and he's still a tool for his letter. He comes across as, "I'm a warrior, I am righteous" kind of douche to me. Kind of like GWB except he was AWOL during his avoidance of Vietnam.

    For the record, I'm for stopping ISIS. Just not sure what the best way to do it might be.
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    Now if you are all done attacking the messenger we can back to the news...

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-iran-rivalry-yemen-deepens-mideast-sectarianism-30368937?singlePage=true

    This shit is real whether I enlist or not. Everyday things get worse. Al qaeda just took over an airport, oil port and sea port in Yemen. Ramadi is falling. We will either be sucked in on our terms or on someone elses. We need to be proactive and not reactive. We as the west need to decide what our principles are and take action before it's too late.



    Edit - Had to add that Egyptian tv is now asking Israel to hit Iran. None of this will end well.

    Lol, a 12 second sound bite taken out of context? Why the fuck would Israel need to refuel to bomb Iran? This video you posted didn't clarify shit except that you have a hard on for dropping bombs on Muslim countries. IsrAel killed over 500 kids and that's ok. Iran has killed how many kids? Is that more or less then 500?

    Edit- I hope to god your kids enlist. Someone like you that writes checks with their mouth deserves to stay up at night wondering if their kids are safe walking the streets of Iran. Night after night
    This is a muslim country having a hard on for dropping bombs on another muslim country.
    No, this is a Muslim country having a hard on for the US to drop bombs on another Muslim country.

    Answer me this BS, why haven't the republicans in Congress, with majorities in both houses, not voted, or even held hearings, on Obama's request to wage war on ISIS, as required by the War Powers Act? Why no criticism of the republicans in Congress for letting everything go to hell? Where is your outrage? Where is Rand? Cotton? Rubio? Christie? McConnell? Beohner? Where is the leadership that you allege is so sorely lacking? Walker? Where is the brain trust you so solidly believe in? Where oh where has my chickenhawk gone, where or where has he gone?
    Obama's request to "wage war" on ISIS would prevent the use of ground troops. This would tie the hands of the military and possibly the next president. This is a non-starter if you really believe in "waging war". Also calling Cotton a chickenhawk is pretty stupid.
    So, are you suggesting the use of ground troops against Iran? Okay to bomb Iran but not ISIS? Man, you are all over the map on this. And yes, Cotton is a Chicken Hawk because he, along with his party, demanded Obama do something about ISIS. Obama then sent a request to the republican Congress requesting authorization to use force, as required under the War Powers Act (I know, that pesky Constitution). The republicans have since turned tail and run, in effect, abandoning the commander in chief, without even a debate no less. That is a Chicken Hawk of the highest order. Why no debate? Why no vote? Blame Obama, demand war but put no skin in the game. Fucking pussies, Cotton included. And don't forget Cotton communicating with the enemy with his dipshit letter. What a tool. Maybe you'd like to move to Arkansas so he can represent you?
    Now now...don't lose your cool. Cotton left law and served in Iraq and Afganistan from 2005 - 2009. He was on the ground. Not a chickenhawk. When he comments on Iran it comes from someone who actually fought Iranian militia on the ground in Iraq. Not a chickenhawk. Since Iranians shot at him and his buddies he tends to find it just a little disturbing that they are on an uninterrupted path to a bomb. Anyways, I'm not sure if you've been reading your buddy BB's posts but according to him once you serve you are entitled to say whatever you want on matters of war and peace.

    Now again...as far as the war authority you want so bad to fight ISIS (not Iran)...Obama had to remove the use of ground troops in order to placate democrats. This was unacceptable to republicans who truly want to fight ISIS along with pretty much everyone in the military. That kind of deal only ties a general's hands. ISIS can not be bombed out of existance. Some kind of ground forces will be necessary if you actually want victory. Since the current AUMF that is already on the books allows for ground troops, why the hell would the republicans vote on a new AUMF that restricts ground troops? Obama already has congressional authority to fight ISIS...the original one never expired.

    Lastly...no need to move to Arkansas...got a great home in Toronto...plus PJ plays here more.
    Of what AUMF do you speak? None of the current AUMF's passed and on the books authorize Obama to use force against ISIS. In fact, the ones that have been passed and are on the books are quite specific in their scope and application. Please, enlighten me on which AUMF allows Obama to do what you'd like done? Being well defined in the scope and mission is what was intended when the War Powers Resolution was created, to prevent the president from having a blank check to use military force. Now then, don't you think that if the bombing campaign wasn't sufficient to stop ISIS and ground forces were necessary, that the generals with their hands tied, would appeal and loudly so to the commander in chief to return to congress and request another AUMF authorizing ground troops? And wouldn't the chicken hawk republicans vote to authorize it?

    Don't forget, the Iraqi military is incapable of defeating ISIS on their own. GWB agreed to withdraw US troops in 2011 per his agreement, that Obama dutifully carried out. The Shia militias have balked at having US troops or even US directed airstrikes on their behalf. So, what do we do? Re-invade Iraq? And if that's the answer, why isn't Chicken Hawk Cotton calling for a bill, resolution, debate, anything other than blaming Obama for the current state of affairs?

    Why isn't Cotton still in the military? Why did he get out? Maybe he knows we'd get our asses kicked if we went back? Because he knows taking on Iran is a whole other ball of wax? So, again, explain to me how it would be okay to bomb Iran but not to bomb ISIS? Again, are you arguing for ground troops to invade Iran? Re-invade Iraq? Wouldn't it be better to side with Iran against ISIS? Explain to me how this plays out and where you stand or would like to see the US do. And your characterization of Cotton being concerned that Iran is on an uninterrupted path to the bomb, isn't a ten year "trust but verify" interrupting Iran's path to the bomb? Cotton may have served in Iraq but he has a lot to learn as a senator and he's still a tool for his letter. He comes across as, "I'm a warrior, I am righteous" kind of douche to me. Kind of like GWB except he was AWOL during his avoidance of Vietnam.

    For the record, I'm for stopping ISIS. Just not sure what the best way to do it might be.
    The 2001 AUMF. As per the Obama administration:

    "Based on ISIL’s longstanding relationship with al-Qa’ida (AQ) and Usama bin Laden; its long history of conducting, and continued desire to conduct, attacks against U.S. persons and interests, the extensive history of U.S. combat operations against Isil dating back to the time the group first affiliated with AQ in 2004; and Isil’s position - supported by some individual members and factions of AQ-aligned groups - that it is the true inheritor of Usama bin Laden’s legacy, the President may rely on the 2001 AUMF as statutory authority for the use of force against Isil, notwithstanding the recent public split between AQ’s senior leadership and Isil."

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,612
    So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,612
    And if the republicans in congress think boots on the ground are necessary, why won't they go on the record, via the floor of their respective chambers, and say so? They can still vote against the AUMF requested by the president.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,612
    The US has 3,000 troops in Iraq and Canada 600, most in Kuwait supporting air operations and 69 SF training Iraqis. How many more Canadian troops would you enjoy seeing deployed to Iraq? What number would be sufficient to defeat ISIS or to clean up the mess the US made?
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  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    rr165892 said:

    hedonist said:

    benjs said:

    hedonist said:

    My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

    Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

    We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

    Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

    Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

    And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

    All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

    Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.

    This is fascinating to hear about. Thanks for the insight, Hedonist.

    I'll be honest: the close-mindedness, the attachment to old-age traditions and values, the negative spin on choice and change - these are constants in a vast amount of different sects.

    It happens in Judaism (and I would assume many other religions): why do we have derogative terms for "non-Jews"? Why has it been deemed unacceptable by many Jewish communities to not advocate for blind acceptance of any Israeli actions?
    It happens in Canadian culture: why with a church/state division do we still call out to a god to keep our land glorious and free? Why is it still illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street in Toronto on a Sunday?
    It happened amongst white supremacists: Slave owners certainly would've frowned on promoting the black liberation movement.

    Traditions, by virtue of what they are, represent older-time mentalities, which are (at least sometimes) not of proper 'today' mindset, omitting concepts such as equality, righteousness, and justice. Shame and guilt have always been present to help traditions maintain their places in peoples' lives.
    Are you really in your early/mid-20s? You have a wise - and openminded but realistic - perspective.

    Yes, same as you are - my family is Jewish and I've seen hypocrisy and double standards in both the sense of fervency and action. Actually from the younger generation too. Agreed it's among most if not all religions (hell, I do it myself at times).

    And Jason, this - And perhaps there is an element of their society that doesn't embrace Western culture, but I'm sure that the Iranian feminist, LGBT, and even lovers of dancing and music do.

    Absolutely.
    Hedo,I always Ben is like a young Yoda.

    Question ,do you still have family in Iran?

    As Persian Jews can they worship openly (if they are religious) or do they have to fly under the radar so to speak?
    I remember seeing a show that said there was like 20k Jews in Iran and for the most part they were harassed less then the young Rockers who are trying to rock out to some metal.That is completely underground.
    I Hope I'm not being to personal,not my intention.I find the dynamic in Iran very interesting.As a former progressive society and they have a very young population waiting to break out and let their individuality shine.I think they have the right fabric for a real positive change in the near future.
    Look, I can't speak for Iran but I've been to the Middle East a couple of times and spent some time in Syria before all hell broke loose. I hung out with Christians in Syria who had no problem what so ever and never complained to me about the way they are treated. When is everyone gonna finally realize that the media is preconditioning your mind to accept all the shit they want you to believe. When I walked around Syria and people found out I was American, they'd invite me over for dinner/tea hookah whatever. And no they DIDNT try to sell me their daughters. The Arab population doesn't have a problem with Americans, but they do have a problem with our leaders.
    There was nothing great about Syria even before all hell broke loose. This article by the late, great Christopher Hitchens is quite illuminating

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2009/05/christopher-hitchens200905
    You ever been to Syria? Didn't think so so fuck off. Like I said, I hope to god or Allah or whatever fucken God you worship, your kids enlist. I hope they are put on the ground and I hope to god you lose sleep over it. Your nothing but a pussy ass war monger. Have everyone do the fighting for you. Straight up coward.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    The US has 3,000 troops in Iraq and Canada 600, most in Kuwait supporting air operations and 69 SF training Iraqis. How many more Canadian troops would you enjoy seeing deployed to Iraq? What number would be sufficient to defeat ISIS or to clean up the mess the US made?

    They def have room for 1 more Canadian from Toronto. But he's a pussy who wages war on his computer.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
    My life is pretty awesome actually
    I could careless, how about letting other people have awesome lives without the threat of bombing them?
    You care tons. You can't quit me. I am the first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning and the last thing you think about when you go to bed at night. Now as far as the Iranians go...I want them to have awesome lives. I would like to see their green revolution realized. I would like to see them have full rights. I would like to see their women be liberated. I would like to see their LGBT community not be hung from lamposts. They are good people trapped under a religious tyranny. It's a shame that you have abandoned them.
    And we'd all like those rights for the Palestinians, well, all of us EXCEPT you.

    As for Iran, don't sit here and pretend you care about them because even a fucken IDIOT knows you can't give them everything you want to give them by bombing them. But your an idiot cut from a diff cloth.

    Let ask you a question since you want to play superman to the Iranians and save the day. Are you gonna go and save the Palestinians when you're done with Iran? I mean they've been under occupation for over 60 years. Your bombs gonna go and liberate them from Israeli control? I didn't think so. Sad state of affairs when we have idiots advocating more war. But I and everyone else knows why you're so gung-hu about dropping bombs on Iran. Wish you had the balls to admit it. But then again, people who advocate for sending people to do their fighting for them have NO BALLS.

    As for me, I got shit to do today so I won't be obsessing about some dickhead war monger. I'm actually going to msg to see the Rangers/pens playoff game. Something you leaf fans in Toronto have no idea about.
  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,216
    edited April 2015
    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
    My life is pretty awesome actually
    I could careless, how about letting other people have awesome lives without the threat of bombing them?
    You care tons. You can't quit me. I am the first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning and the last thing you think about when you go to bed at night. Now as far as the Iranians go...I want them to have awesome lives. I would like to see their green revolution realized. I would like to see them have full rights. I would like to see their women be liberated. I would like to see their LGBT community not be hung from lamposts. They are good people trapped under a religious tyranny. It's a shame that you have abandoned them.
    So if I may summarize your opinion BS, What your saying is: "As long as the people of Iran do want to live following the same opinions and values as western society, they might live happily ever after... But when they have a different opinion and values as the west, They live under a religious tyranny. So let's bomb the shit out of them. 'Cause maybe these "religious tyranny" will speak openly about disapproval of your own values and opinions...." Of course in your opinion everyone who approves with these "religious tyranny" is brainwashed, because the only way to free those poor people is by bringing them the western system. If they can't do it on their own, we have to help them.... Look how great this way of thinking did work in lets say, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc... But lets nuke them anyway, because of the difference of opinion and values "those religious tyrants" vent, lets nuke them, because, maybe some day in the future they are capable of nuking us, maybe...

    I find this kind of reasoning quit offensive, and very, very arrogant. The only right opinion is your own, a mouth full of democracy, but when it comes to a real democratic process, speaking out and listening to one another, you back down behind a great fence of missiles, and nukes...hmmmm...
    If you want to bring real democracy, you have to start with giving the right example, don't you think?
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    We have 1 fucken clown advocating war with Iran. 1 fucken person who thinks he's right and the rest of us are wrong. 1 idiot who had no balls to go and fight but has no problem sending other people's kids.

    Amazing, the American people are trying to bring their soldiers home and 1 Canadian is trying to have them go fight another endless war with Iran.

    Your parents should be very proud of you.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,082
    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    badbrains said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Jason P said:

    And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

    Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

    So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

    Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

    No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

    Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

    And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

    And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
    Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
    Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
    Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
    You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
    My life is pretty awesome actually
    I could careless, how about letting other people have awesome lives without the threat of bombing them?
    You care tons. You can't quit me. I am the first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning and the last thing you think about when you go to bed at night. Now as far as the Iranians go...I want them to have awesome lives. I would like to see their green revolution realized. I would like to see them have full rights. I would like to see their women be liberated. I would like to see their LGBT community not be hung from lamposts. They are good people trapped under a religious tyranny. It's a shame that you have abandoned them.
    And we'd all like those rights for the Palestinians, well, all of us EXCEPT you.

    As for Iran, don't sit here and pretend you care about them because even a fucken IDIOT knows you can't give them everything you want to give them by bombing them. But your an idiot cut from a diff cloth.

    Let ask you a question since you want to play superman to the Iranians and save the day. Are you gonna go and save the Palestinians when you're done with Iran? I mean they've been under occupation for over 60 years. Your bombs gonna go and liberate them from Israeli control? I didn't think so. Sad state of affairs when we have idiots advocating more war. But I and everyone else knows why you're so gung-hu about dropping bombs on Iran. Wish you had the balls to admit it. But then again, people who advocate for sending people to do their fighting for them have NO BALLS.

    As for me, I got shit to do today so I won't be obsessing about some dickhead war monger. I'm actually going to msg to see the Rangers/pens playoff game. Something you leaf fans in Toronto have no idea about.
    Raptors are playing Washington right now. We're a basketball town.
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