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America's Gun Violence

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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,896
    Three people leave guns guns behind in vacation houses over a week in the Outerbanks.

    https://www.wral.com/police-urge-outer-banks-vacationers-not-to-leave-guns-behind/19697372/?version=amp&__twitter_impression=true
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    OnWis97 said:
    “Responsible” gun owners, dontcha say?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,094
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,094
    Hippie hooray Idaho!
    https://twitter.com/therealdoggur/status/1399931593125359619?s=21
    just a trip to Walmart the land of the freedumb
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    Hippie hooray Idaho!
    https://twitter.com/therealdoggur/status/1399931593125359619?s=21
    just a trip to Walmart the land of the freedumb
    There’s no truth to the rumour that my Twitter handle is emberella.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,896
    Hippie hooray Idaho!
    https://twitter.com/therealdoggur/status/1399931593125359619?s=21
    just a trip to Walmart the land of the freedumb
    The Idaho one was in 2014.  It's not like we haven't had evidence of this danger for years. If only there had been a good toddler with a gun to stop the bad toddler with a gun...
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 9,118
    Get them started young....

    A 12-year-old boy and 14-year-old girl broke into a home, found weapons and opened fire on deputies, sheriff says. http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/F-0lqQujxwM/index.html
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,740
     

    6 hurt in Springfield 'celebration of life' gunfire expected to recover

    ASSOCIATED PRESS

    SPRINGFIELD, Ohio — An early morning shooting at a celebration of life event in a southwestern Ohio community left six people wounded, but all are expected to recover, authorities said.

    Chief Lee Graf of the Springfield police department said one victim was flown to a hospital with gunshot wounds to the chest and five others were also treated following the gunfire shortly before 2 a.m. Wednesday in Springfield.

    The six victims had gathered for a celebration of life event to honor someone who passed away years ago, authorities said. It was being held in a former barbershop or beauty salon that had closed years ago and is now rented out for private parties and events, authorities said.

    Graf said “more than one" shooter was involved but declined to say how many. He said the assailants had fled the scene by the time officers arrived. Gov. Mike DeWine had said earlier that two people were taken into custody but the police chief said he couldn't confirm that and declined comment.

    A possible motive for the shooting hasn't been disclosed. Graf said there was no indication of a hate crime or organized crime involvement.

    DeWine later warned of “a summer of violence in our cities" and urged passage of changes in gun laws aimed at giving law enforcement, prosecutors, and judges more tools to deal with repeat and violent offenders as well as those not allowed to have firearms.

    Springfield is located in Clark County, about 25 miles northeast of Dayton and about 45 miles west of Columbus.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    Get them started young....

    A 12-year-old boy and 14-year-old girl broke into a home, found weapons and opened fire on deputies, sheriff says. http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/F-0lqQujxwM/index.html
    Nice that the “responsible” gun owner didn’t properly secure their multiple firearms. Freedumb.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    Another "responsible" gun owner. Clearly, can't say it enough, more guns are the answer. I'm sure the father suffered enough. Thoughts and prayers.

    2-year-old Illinois boy dies from self-inflicted gunshot wound (msn.com)
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 9,118
    The state of Alabama took his gun away. When authorities gave it back, he shot and killed his wife.. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/state-alabama-took-his-gun-away-when-authorities-gave-it-n1269234
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,094
    https://twitter.com/b52malmet/status/1401134795044921345?s=21
    Horray for the gun nuts now they can safely caress their precious rifles at bed time, fuck you judge
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,095
    https://twitter.com/b52malmet/status/1401134795044921345?s=21
    Horray for the gun nuts now they can safely caress their precious rifles at bed time, fuck you judge
    On National Gun Violence Awareness Day no less. Fuck you, judge!
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,740
    Hobbes said:
    https://twitter.com/b52malmet/status/1401134795044921345?s=21
    Horray for the gun nuts now they can safely caress their precious rifles at bed time, fuck you judge
    On National Gun Violence Awareness Day no less. Fuck you, judge!

    he admits its a weapon for military uses in the hands of civilians...
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,095
    mickeyrat said:
    Hobbes said:
    https://twitter.com/b52malmet/status/1401134795044921345?s=21
    Horray for the gun nuts now they can safely caress their precious rifles at bed time, fuck you judge
    On National Gun Violence Awareness Day no less. Fuck you, judge!

    he admits its a weapon for military uses in the hands of civilians...
    ...which results in the death of innocent civilians.

    Unless the plot of Red Dawn becomes a reality, then I see no need. Wolverines!!!
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 6,082
    Republicans are fine with massacres of Americans. 

    It is what it is. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,094
    Hobbes said:
    https://twitter.com/b52malmet/status/1401134795044921345?s=21
    Horray for the gun nuts now they can safely caress their precious rifles at bed time, fuck you judge
    On National Gun Violence Awareness Day no less. Fuck you, judge!
    Yeah he just spit all over this day! F’n creep judge 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,094
    Republicans are fine with massacres of Americans. 

    It is what it is. 
    It just sucks to be resigned to this position but unfortunately I agree!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 9,118
    Congratulations.....

    Police: 3 dead, other hurt in shooting at Florida grad party
    https://news.yahoo.com/police-3-dead-other-hurt-151825034.html
     Three people are dead and at least six others injured following a shooting at a Florida graduation party, the latest in a string of such violence in the Miami ...
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,896
    I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there.  I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps).  Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate."  And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic. 

    US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.

    *Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    OnWis97 said:
    I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there.  I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps).  Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate."  And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic. 

    US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.

    *Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
    I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.

    And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,320
    OnWis97 said:
    I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there.  I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps).  Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate."  And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic. 

    US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.

    *Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
    I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.

    And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
    I read somewhere that legislation gets passed once a problem reaches a certain mathematical tipping point.  That tipping point is when enough people are personally affected by the issue at hand.  

    For drunk driving, it was 50K deaths
    For opiate overdoses, 50K died from overdose people in 2019
    Just the sheer size of the problem led to legislation

    In 2020, gun violence killed ONLY ~20,000 Americans
    It's scary to think that there won't be any meaningful legislation until 250% more people are killed by guns
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,896
    OnWis97 said:
    I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there.  I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps).  Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate."  And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic. 

    US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.

    *Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
    I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.

    And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
    I understand that some people use the old "people die in collisions; do you want to ban cars?" BS, but that's not what I was doing. I'm saying that we accept those deaths because we value driving, speed, etc. and we (at least some of "we") similarly value gun culture. In both instances, we are generally OK with human collateral damage.  As I briefly pointed out, we've mitigated collisions in some ways (e.g., drunk driving laws, safety features in vehicles, certain engineering changes on roadways, etc.). Essentially, nobody is against such mitigation. In the case of guns, a lot of people are against any mitigation because they've been tricked into thinking someone's going to take their guns away if anything changes (dissimilarly, airbags never had Rush telling people that the next step is "no more cars.").

    So I guess my point was we accept auto deaths and we accept gun deaths.

    (I'm also in the transportation field and I actually think using a skilled, expensive, dangerous mode as our primary and often necessary mode is kind of crazy and it bugs me that we accept this and a whole lot of other things about our car-first culture bug me, too. So I see a parallel.) 
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I cannot even pretend anymore...I am totally desensitized to the shootings. Perhaps that makes me part of the problem. But I highly doubt I am part of a very small club there.  I recall reading that one of the recent shootings had eight deaths. Most of us probably remember the Columbine shooting; 13 deaths (plus the perps).  Think about how much coverage that had; "Columbine" was as important of a word in our culture as "Watergate."  And it isn't the number of casualties; it's that it was a fairly rare occurrence back then. Now if we get an entire month without 13 dead in a mass shooting, we should be ecstatic. 

    US culture is totally desensitized. We almost accept shootings the way we accept deaths in traffic collisions.* We just can't give every even the same attention we gave to Columbine. It's human nature, but the situation is just so tragic.

    *Over 30,000/yr and I don't like the way we accept those, either, though we at least try to mitigate...
    I hate the traffic and drunk driving deaths comparison with gun deaths. Drunk driving deaths were north of 50k when MADD got started and the 30K deaths today don’t compare as the number of total vehicle miles driven, cars on the road, etc. is way higher yet deaths decreased over the past 40 years. Think of all the changes to driving and automobiles, from licensing teens, road design & engineering, technology, raising the drinking age, etc. Compare that to the effort to reduce gun crime and mass shooting. Yea, right? If columbine and Sandy Hook didn’t change anything, nothing will. Lost cause. The only solution is a good guy with a gun. And thoughts and prayers.

    And there will be more. Just wait until the unvaxxed guy can’t get into, insert concert artist here, concert, or other “event.”
    I understand that some people use the old "people die in collisions; do you want to ban cars?" BS, but that's not what I was doing. I'm saying that we accept those deaths because we value driving, speed, etc. and we (at least some of "we") similarly value gun culture. In both instances, we are generally OK with human collateral damage.  As I briefly pointed out, we've mitigated collisions in some ways (e.g., drunk driving laws, safety features in vehicles, certain engineering changes on roadways, etc.). Essentially, nobody is against such mitigation. In the case of guns, a lot of people are against any mitigation because they've been tricked into thinking someone's going to take their guns away if anything changes (dissimilarly, airbags never had Rush telling people that the next step is "no more cars.").

    So I guess my point was we accept auto deaths and we accept gun deaths.

    (I'm also in the transportation field and I actually think using a skilled, expensive, dangerous mode as our primary and often necessary mode is kind of crazy and it bugs me that we accept this and a whole lot of other things about our car-first culture bug me, too. So I see a parallel.) 
    My point was more about with one, cars and DD, actions were taken that made car travel safer, whereas with the other, we're removing restrictions, adding more guns to the mix and shouldn't be surprised by the increase in deaths. Every action has risks (stairs, ladders, crossing the street, grilling, candles, smoking, etc., etc., etc.) and people are killed doing them, regardless of all the things we try to do to mitigate the risks. And we'll never get to zero but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to mitigate them.

    Another example of risk mitigation would be passenger airline miles flown without major crashes resulting in death. When I was a kid, it seemed a large airliner went down weekly around the world. Now? Its a big event and when it happens, everyone comes together to understand why and take active steps to mitigate the next one. But then again, airline and car travel are not guaranteed in the Constitution or Ten Commandments. 'Murica.

    To the bold, a majority of 'Muricans from both parties support mitigating risks from guns, but for the politicians beholden to the NRA. Personally, I won't live in, travel to, vacation, spend any time in states with lax gun laws. I'll try to mitigate my risk exposure.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,740
    Homicides are up, but GOP misleads with claims about blame
    By DAVID KLEPPER and GARY FIELDS
    54 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — “SKYROCKETING MURDER RATES,” claimed the National Fraternal Order of Police. “An explosion of violent crime," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. “Democrat-run cities across the country who cut funding for police have seen increases in crime,” tweeted U.S. Rep. Patrick McHenry, R-N.C.

    On social media and in political speeches, some Republicans and pro-police groups say last year's calls to slash spending on law enforcement have led to a dramatic rise in killings in cities overseen by Democrats.

    The increases they cite are real, and several big cities did make cuts to police spending. But the reductions were mostly modest, and the same big increases in homicides are being seen nationwide — even in cities that increased police spending. At the same time, the rates for burglaries, drug offenses and many other types of crime are down in many cities across the country.

    The effort to blame Democrats for crime may offer a preview of Republicans' strategy for upcoming elections: a new twist on an old “law and order” argument from the party's past, harkening back to President Richard Nixon.

    Just as it did half a century ago, the argument ignores the complicated reasons for fluctuations in crime rates — a list that today includes the upheaval wrought by the coronavirus pandemic and protests that erupted after the killing of George Floyd by police.

    “2020 was just a crazy complicated year where lots of things happened, and there are lots of potential explanations for why we saw these big changes,” said David Abrams, a University of Pennsylvania Law School professor, who tracks crime rates and is studying the impact of the pandemic. The bottom line? “It's complicated.”

    Late last month, the National Fraternal Order of Police posted a graphic on social media showing big increases in the homicide rate in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Portland, Oregon — all cities currently led by Democrats. “The leadership in all of these cities turned the keys over to the ‘Defund the Police’ mob,” the post read.

    The numbers in it were alarming: Homicides in Chicago, up by 22% through late May compared with the same period last year. In Minneapolis, homicides were up by 56%; in Portland, 800%.

    Top Republicans have taken up the claim, too.

    “Look at what’s happening where they’re defunding the police," former President Donald Trump said Saturday at the North Carolina GOP convention, echoing an argument he made on the campaign trail last year. "The crime rate is going up by 50, 60, 100%, 131% in one city.”

    Killings have been on the rise since 2020, but the numbers don't tell the whole story about reductions in police spending or a troubling increase in homicides being seen throughout the country.

    Last year in Minneapolis, city officials shifted $8 million — less than 5% of the police budget — to programs focused on community mental health and violence prevention. In February, they approved $6.4 million to hire new police officers after an unprecedented number of officers retired or went on extended medical leave following Floyd's killing.

    In Portland, homicides were up from six in the first five months of 2020 to 38 in the first five months of 2021, according to city police data, a more than 530% increase. That's lower than the 800% increase claimed by the Fraternal Order of Police, which said it was based on homicides through May 25.

    The city, a center of defund police efforts, trimmed its police budget last year by less than 4%, far short of the $50 million in cuts sought by activists.

    This year, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, a Democrat, has sought greater funds for programs targeting gun violence, which he said is a national problem. “It has reached crisis proportions,” he said in March.

    Los Angeles and Chicago have also seen double-digit increases in their homicide rates this year, and they did reduce spending on police. Chicago cut its police budget by 3%, largely by eliminating vacant positions. Los Angeles reduced spending on police by about 5% overall.

    Yet homicide rates are also increasing in cities that didn't cut spending.

    In Houston, a city led by a Democratic mayor, killings have increased, but so, too, has funding for police.

    Nashville, Tennessee, also led by a Democratic mayor, increased the police budget but has seen homicides spike 50% so far this year over last.

    Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Fresno, California, have also seen more killings so far in 2021. Both cities have Republican mayors.

    Meanwhile, other types of crime are down, according to preliminary statistics and researchers who say crime initially dropped around the world after the pandemic began. While cities are reporting jumps in their homicide rate, there's been no similar increase in other crimes, like burglaries, robberies or drug offenses.

    That's not what you'd expect if calls to defund the police were leading to a rash of crime, Abrams said.

    “Any theory explaining the rise in homicides would also have to explain why we haven’t seen a spike in other kinds of crimes,” he said.

    So why are killings up?

    Economic losses and personal stress brought on by the pandemic are one suggestion. COVID-19 also disrupted in-person education and many community programs designed to quell violence. It put a strain on police departments, hospitals, courts and other institutions tasked with dealing with the impact of crime.

    Other possibilities include rising gun ownership and the protests over police killings that could have emboldened criminals. Then there are the host of factors that contribute to localized violence, including gangs, drugs and poverty.

    James Alan Fox, a criminologist and professor at Boston’s Northeastern University, said small changes to a police budget, or the party affiliation of a particular mayor, aren't likely to play a big role. Some violence fluctuations are part of long-standing problems.

    “It's not related to which party is ruling," Fox said. “But you can win a lot of votes by pushing fear.”

    Nixon used a similar argument in his successful 1968 presidential campaign, arguing that protests over civil rights “have torn 300 cities apart." The strategy helped galvanize support among white voters concerned about racial integration, according to Elizabeth Hinton, a Yale Law School professor who studies the history of criminalization in America.

    Now, just as then, misleading claims about crime seem designed to exploit racism among white voters while ignoring the real reasons behind the increase in homicides, she said.

    “Instead of linking this to COVID and mass unemployment and general anxiety, they’re saying that somehow calls to defund the police are behind this, as a way to justify more policing as a response,” Hinton said.

    ___

    Associated Press writers Stefanie Dazio in Los Angeles, Don Babwin in Chicago and Terrence Fraser in New York contributed to this report.



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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.

    Live updates: Child among 3 killed in shooting at Publix, June 10, 2021 (ajc.com)
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.


    Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 923
    Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.


    Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)
    It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.
    Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,858
    edited June 10
    FiveBelow said:
    Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.


    Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)
    It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.
    Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.


    Little late to the game, try to keep up. But thanks for all those examples from states with a repub governor. I appreciate the hand up.

    Clearly, more guns are the answer.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 6,082
    FiveBelow said:
    Well, no wonder, repub governor in a red state. More guns are the answer.


    Man Shot in the Mouth While Sitting on the Beach in Unprovoked Attack (msn.com)
    It's not quite the delectable Rainier season, but who knew cherry picking could be so fun? Must have been those damn hayseed red state tourists running a muck up there. I'd go back further than last week but what's the point? I sure hope my in-laws are okay. Wait, am I allowed to mingle with those who have representatives that don't belong to the same fraternity? It's all so confusing. Wearing political blinders does nothing more than discredit the notion that you actually care. I'm sure you were just extending a hand, though.
    Here is one that might make you blush, given your affinity for geography and a specific color.


    Are you really comparing the rate of gun violence in MA to that of TX? 

    In the same post where you're complaining about someone cherry picking data? 
This discussion has been closed.