America's Gun Violence

unsung

As of right now the long term liability still exists and has not been altered.

unsung

This article is nearly two years old.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2016/04/22/mapping-the-100000-illinois-teacher-pensions-costing-taxpayers-nearly-1-0-billion/#63096505237e

riotgrl

unsung said:

As of right now the long term liability still exists and has not been altered.

Well, I can't speak for any state except mine (KY) and the offers they have made are insulting.  If you dump new hires out of the pool where will additional money come from?  Governor Bevin wants to keep giving tax incentives to business which means we take in less revenue that we give in tax breaks to bullshit enterprises like the ark park.  He won't consider new revenue sources like casino gambling or marijuana so that is a no go.  And now our state legislature voted to raid our healthcare fund AGAIN and they want to create a budget on my back and I'm the asshole?  Don't want to talk about it here, fine, I don't want to hijack this thread because it is important but quit scapegoating teachers for every damn thing that is wrong in this county.

CM189191

unsung said:

This article is nearly two years old.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2016/04/22/mapping-the-100000-illinois-teacher-pensions-costing-taxpayers-nearly-1-0-billion/#63096505237e

Many of these people are not teachers, they're administrators like superintendents.  Many of the cities listed are very large and/or well-to-do. Doesn't surprise me that they would have 6 figure pensions, it's well earned.  

Reads like another article from some podunk who doesn't understand how things work in the big scary city. 

No Coder

I've just got to say that it's reading these pages that has made me appreciate some of the laws we have in Australia that I have previously just taken for granted. Now I'm not just talking about our gun laws, which I love, but to read this conversation about teachers pensions etc, makes me shake my head. So many different rules across one country and for a country of the free, there is certainly not much done by the government to look after it's citizens.

We have compulsory superannuation, which means an employer must contribute and additional % (currently 9.5%) of it's employees wage into a fund for their retirement, which is guaranteed by the government and also tracked to ensure employers are paying this, with HEAVY penalties applied if not done. I'm sure there are cases in Australia where this has been problematic, but these would be a very small percetnage, as for the majority , this works.

 We do have our own issues (and plenty of them), but at least I know that I can go to a doctor and be treated for free (payed for by our taxes) and our laws are pretty much standard for the big issues, across the whole country.

rgambs

No Coder said:

I've just got to say that it's reading these pages that has made me appreciate some of the laws we have in Australia that I have previously just taken for granted. Now I'm not just talking about our gun laws, which I love, but to read this conversation about teachers pensions etc, makes me shake my head. So many different rules across one country and for a country of the free, there is certainly not much done by the government to look after it's citizens.

We have compulsory superannuation, which means an employer must contribute and additional % (currently 9.5%) of it's employees wage into a fund for their retirement, which is guaranteed by the government and also tracked to ensure employers are paying this, with HEAVY penalties applied if not done. I'm sure there are cases in Australia where this has been problematic, but these would be a very small percetnage, as for the majority , this works.

 We do have our own issues (and plenty of them), but at least I know that I can go to a doctor and be treated for free (payed for by our taxes) and our laws are pretty much standard for the big issues, across the whole country.

Our notion of freedom is ridiculous.
Some of the people here must seem literally insane to you lol
I'm born and raised in this system and the libertarians seem insane to me, so I can't imagine what it's like for the rest of the civilized world.

bootlegger10

No Coder said:

I've just got to say that it's reading these pages that has made me appreciate some of the laws we have in Australia that I have previously just taken for granted. Now I'm not just talking about our gun laws, which I love, but to read this conversation about teachers pensions etc, makes me shake my head. So many different rules across one country and for a country of the free, there is certainly not much done by the government to look after it's citizens.

We have compulsory superannuation, which means an employer must contribute and additional % (currently 9.5%) of it's employees wage into a fund for their retirement, which is guaranteed by the government and also tracked to ensure employers are paying this, with HEAVY penalties applied if not done. I'm sure there are cases in Australia where this has been problematic, but these would be a very small percetnage, as for the majority , this works.

 We do have our own issues (and plenty of them), but at least I know that I can go to a doctor and be treated for free (payed for by our taxes) and our laws are pretty much standard for the big issues, across the whole country.

Employers and employees each fund 6.2% of the first $127,000 of wages to go to social security in the US.  Our government though decides to loan that money to itself and spend it.

josevolution

No Coder said:

I've just got to say that it's reading these pages that has made me appreciate some of the laws we have in Australia that I have previously just taken for granted. Now I'm not just talking about our gun laws, which I love, but to read this conversation about teachers pensions etc, makes me shake my head. So many different rules across one country and for a country of the free, there is certainly not much done by the government to look after it's citizens.

We have compulsory superannuation, which means an employer must contribute and additional % (currently 9.5%) of it's employees wage into a fund for their retirement, which is guaranteed by the government and also tracked to ensure employers are paying this, with HEAVY penalties applied if not done. I'm sure there are cases in Australia where this has been problematic, but these would be a very small percetnage, as for the majority , this works.

 We do have our own issues (and plenty of them), but at least I know that I can go to a doctor and be treated for free (payed for by our taxes) and our laws are pretty much standard for the big issues, across the whole country.

It makes you wonder why anyone would migrate here !
We don’t protect our students 
we despise our teachers 
we voted in a total narcissist for president 
we want all immigrants out of the country 
we worship guns 
NRA dictates policy 
You tell me what’s not to like ...

cincybearcat

Can we separate teacher's pay, etc from the gun discussion.  I'm getting confused on who I'm disagreeing with here!!!

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/375597-trump-i-would-have-run-into-school-during-shooting-even-without-a-gun

Bull Fucking Shit

I agree...he is full of crap.

That said - any parent of a kid in that school would. Well, that's a generalization...maybe not any/every parent....but the vast majority.  I can't get over this one.  Or sandy hook really, but this one is even worse.  People using all these other excuses to avoid looking at 1 of the root causes....easy access to firearms with high capacity magazines.  I'm all for solving the security at schools, even having an armed guard (they had 1 and he failed them).  I'm all for solving the mental health issue (more funding for school programs, more funding for care).  I'm all for solving the law enforcement breakdown (funding for systems to better handle calls about threats, etc).  But we must also solve the gun portion of the issue....more robust background checks, longer waiting period, reduction in capacity, discussing the elimination of access to some guns, tighter restrictions on training/storage/etc...lot to discuss.  Lots of opportunities to DO SOMETHING in lot of different areas that would make a difference.  Yet it seems like a lot of people use 1 of the problems to justify not looking at other problems.  I don't get that.  Let's get them all and let's start now.  Need QUICK action on what we can do and long term plans on the others.  Nobody wants this to happen again, but we are all going to have to give up something to make it better (whether it be tax dollars or access to some items we currently have access to).  We simply cannot afford to draw hard lines.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/375597-trump-i-would-have-run-into-school-during-shooting-even-without-a-gun

Bull Fucking Shit

I agree...he is full of crap.

That said - any parent of a kid in that school would. Well, that's a generalization...maybe not any/every parent....but the vast majority.  I can't get over this one.  Or sandy hook really, but this one is even worse.  People using all these other excuses to avoid looking at 1 of the root causes....easy access to firearms with high capacity magazines.  I'm all for solving the security at schools, even having an armed guard (they had 1 and he failed them).  I'm all for solving the mental health issue (more funding for school programs, more funding for care).  I'm all for solving the law enforcement breakdown (funding for systems to better handle calls about threats, etc).  But we must also solve the gun portion of the issue....more robust background checks, longer waiting period, reduction in capacity, discussing the elimination of access to some guns, tighter restrictions on training/storage/etc...lot to discuss.  Lots of opportunities to DO SOMETHING in lot of different areas that would make a difference.  Yet it seems like a lot of people use 1 of the problems to justify not looking at other problems.  I don't get that.  Let's get them all and let's start now.  Need QUICK action on what we can do and long term plans on the others.  Nobody wants this to happen again, but we are all going to have to give up something to make it better (whether it be tax dollars or access to some items we currently have access to).  We simply cannot afford to draw hard lines.

But did the guard really fail?  I don't think we have the whole story there.  The guard's initial statement was that he thought the gunfire was coming from outside.  Was he around a group of kids?  Maybe his first instinct was to protect who was behind him.

rgambs

The officer only did what his profession and society have deemed the most important priority a police officer has, which is to get home safe at the end of the day.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

The officer only did what his profession and society have deemed the most important priority a police officer has, which is to get home safe at the end of the day.

RG...

You typically lament that cops/officers need to demonstrate non-violent tactical responses. I though this 'patience' would have been supported by you.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/375597-trump-i-would-have-run-into-school-during-shooting-even-without-a-gun

Bull Fucking Shit

I agree...he is full of crap.

That said - any parent of a kid in that school would. Well, that's a generalization...maybe not any/every parent....but the vast majority.  I can't get over this one.  Or sandy hook really, but this one is even worse.  People using all these other excuses to avoid looking at 1 of the root causes....easy access to firearms with high capacity magazines.  I'm all for solving the security at schools, even having an armed guard (they had 1 and he failed them).  I'm all for solving the mental health issue (more funding for school programs, more funding for care).  I'm all for solving the law enforcement breakdown (funding for systems to better handle calls about threats, etc).  But we must also solve the gun portion of the issue....more robust background checks, longer waiting period, reduction in capacity, discussing the elimination of access to some guns, tighter restrictions on training/storage/etc...lot to discuss.  Lots of opportunities to DO SOMETHING in lot of different areas that would make a difference.  Yet it seems like a lot of people use 1 of the problems to justify not looking at other problems.  I don't get that.  Let's get them all and let's start now.  Need QUICK action on what we can do and long term plans on the others.  Nobody wants this to happen again, but we are all going to have to give up something to make it better (whether it be tax dollars or access to some items we currently have access to).  We simply cannot afford to draw hard lines.

But did the guard really fail?  I don't think we have the whole story there.  The guard's initial statement was that he thought the gunfire was coming from outside.  Was he around a group of kids?  Maybe his first instinct was to protect who was behind him.

Fair question, from what I've heard, read on it, I say he failed.  But I may not have all the info.  

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I still shake my head in disbelief over Donald stating he would have charged in there and saved the day. He's said some really stupid stuff- sometimes 3 or 4 times a day (if not more)... but that spew was his stoopidest spew of all his spew.

What a loser.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

The officer only did what his profession and society have deemed the most important priority a police officer has, which is to get home safe at the end of the day.

RG...

You typically lament that cops/officers need to demonstrate non-violent tactical responses. I though this 'patience' would have been supported by you.

That is stretching my position a bit.  I do lament escalation of violence by police vehemently, but I don't expect patience in a hailstorm of bullets.  I don't feel that strongly about this cops behavior, but I do think it's quite sad that it happened.  
I'd rather focus on our society, not the individual.  He may have done what he did for any number of reasons, from pure cowardice up to a tactical decision to protect the kids nearest him in the lack of intel on what the fuck was actually happening.

Our society has created and allowed policing to hold a unique position.  Soldiers, cops, and firemen are the big 3 careers (should all be callings, but that's a different discussion) that require a person to deliberately enter into deadly situations, and the expectations are all fucked up.
Firemen are expected to die trying to save lives and they get the least respect and no support.
Soldiers are expected to die trying to accomplish their mission and protect their brothers and they get respect but not much support.
Cops are expected to protect themselves at all costs to the citizenry they "work for" and receive respect and support that absolutely dwarfs the others.  

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

The officer only did what his profession and society have deemed the most important priority a police officer has, which is to get home safe at the end of the day.

RG...

You typically lament that cops/officers need to demonstrate non-violent tactical responses. I though this 'patience' would have been supported by you.

That is stretching my position a bit.  I do lament escalation of violence by police vehemently, but I don't expect patience in a hailstorm of bullets.  I don't feel that strongly about this cops behavior, but I do think it's quite sad that it happened.  
I'd rather focus on our society, not the individual.  He may have done what he did for any number of reasons, from pure cowardice up to a tactical decision to protect the kids nearest him in the lack of intel on what the fuck was actually happening.

Our society has created and allowed policing to hold a unique position.  Soldiers, cops, and firemen are the big 3 careers (should all be callings, but that's a different discussion) that require a person to deliberately enter into deadly situations, and the expectations are all fucked up.
Firemen are expected to die trying to save lives and they get the least respect and no support.
Soldiers are expected to die trying to accomplish their mission and protect their brothers and they get respect but not much support.
Cops are expected to protect themselves at all costs to the citizenry they "work for" and receive respect and support that absolutely dwarfs the others.  

So do we build upon the other two professions to support them... or do we take away from the police profession to drag it down to their levels?

tweedyfanjen

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I still shake my head in disbelief over Donald stating he would have charged in there and saved the day. He's said some really stupid stuff- sometimes 3 or 4 times a day (if not more)... but that spew was his stoopidest spew of all his spew.

What a loser.

Isn't the Donald afraid of blood?

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

The officer only did what his profession and society have deemed the most important priority a police officer has, which is to get home safe at the end of the day.

RG...

You typically lament that cops/officers need to demonstrate non-violent tactical responses. I though this 'patience' would have been supported by you.

That is stretching my position a bit.  I do lament escalation of violence by police vehemently, but I don't expect patience in a hailstorm of bullets.  I don't feel that strongly about this cops behavior, but I do think it's quite sad that it happened.  
I'd rather focus on our society, not the individual.  He may have done what he did for any number of reasons, from pure cowardice up to a tactical decision to protect the kids nearest him in the lack of intel on what the fuck was actually happening.

Our society has created and allowed policing to hold a unique position.  Soldiers, cops, and firemen are the big 3 careers (should all be callings, but that's a different discussion) that require a person to deliberately enter into deadly situations, and the expectations are all fucked up.
Firemen are expected to die trying to save lives and they get the least respect and no support.
Soldiers are expected to die trying to accomplish their mission and protect their brothers and they get respect but not much support.
Cops are expected to protect themselves at all costs to the citizenry they "work for" and receive respect and support that absolutely dwarfs the others.  

So do we build upon the other two professions to support them... or do we take away from the police profession to drag it down to their levels?

We build up the support and respect (I'm including pay as support) of all three and we build up the expectations on police gradually as we elevate the profession.

cincybearcat

Halifax2TheMax said:

stuckinline said:

• Georgia Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle said he will not support a bill that would give Delta a massive tax break, unless the airline reverses its decision to sever a partnership with the National Rifle Association.
• Delta ended the NRA partnership on Saturday due to pressure from gun control advocates following the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida.
• The proposed bill would exempt jet fuel purchases from Georgia sales tax and could save Delta around $40 million.

http://www.businessinsider.com/delta-nra-georgia-casey-cagle-threatens-retaliation-2018-2

Delta should refuse to fly to and from Georgia, pull their jobs, move their headquarters.

This is unbelievable.  Hypocrites.  They want a damn cake baker to be able to not serve a gay couple but they want the government to step in and threaten a company with their votes for not supporting another organization????