America's Gun Violence

riley540

Guns aren’t for me. I don’t own one and probably never will. But I 100% support the legal ownership of guns. Weather it be to kill your food or to protect yourself and family. Millions and millions of good, educated gun owners in the USA. Many of them are friends of mine. 
Of course the US has more gun violence than any other country.. we have more guns. Very dumb statistic. It’s important to look at violent crime, where the US is not a top ranker. 
May this point in time, if we outlaw guns, outlaws will have guns and the good people will be left defenseless. I think more people need to get educated on fire arm safety. Guns are not going anywhere. 
There are many valid reasons to own guns. Calling all gun owners dumb, and stupid, and Republicans is insane. The polarization has become next level. Reading this thread sucks. I will always advocate for people right to protect themselves. 

PJPOWER

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

ledvedderman said:

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 

I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.

yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not. 

I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership. 

The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc.  In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well.  Same with pythons in Florida.  If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them.  Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas.  There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here.  Myself, I am a hunter.  I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long.  I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed.  If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting.  Different calibers are used for different animals.  Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family?  Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc.  I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts.  Get off your high horse...

Wrong.  Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge. 

Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct.  They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”.  I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.

Forest service.   Ahhh, right...

You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums.  Much more credible sources here...

We could get into a pissing contest by me putting up my close relations in high places in the USFS against your "acquaintances"  but this is much more fun:

"...some eccentric on the AMT forums". 

Yeah, you just seem like a troll actually...I think the best course of action is probably going to be to just ignore you and move on.  Thank you for your well thought out and literate responses, though, I’m sure someone else will give them the time of day...

wow. never thought I'd see Brian be called a troll. that's about as odd as it gets. 

I really don’t give a shit who he is, he was trolling.

PJ_Soul

He wasn't trolling. Are you sure you know what that term means?

dignin

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

ledvedderman said:

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 

I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.

yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not. 

I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership. 

The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc.  In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well.  Same with pythons in Florida.  If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them.  Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas.  There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here.  Myself, I am a hunter.  I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long.  I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed.  If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting.  Different calibers are used for different animals.  Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family?  Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc.  I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts.  Get off your high horse...

Wrong.  Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge. 

Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct.  They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”.  I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.

Forest service.   Ahhh, right...

You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums.  Much more credible sources here...

We could get into a pissing contest by me putting up my close relations in high places in the USFS against your "acquaintances"  but this is much more fun:

"...some eccentric on the AMT forums". 

Yeah, you just seem like a troll actually...I think the best course of action is probably going to be to just ignore you and move on.  Thank you for your well thought out and literate responses, though, I’m sure someone else will give them the time of day...

Code for "I'm losing this argument so I better lay down an insult and tuck tail and run".

chadwick

hey i'd be there next to you having no desire to kill a moose (unless starving). however, moose is food on the table for many families. that makes sense to me.

PJ_Soul

chadwick said:

hey i'd be there next to you having no desire to kill a moose (unless starving). however, moose is food on the table for many families. that makes sense to me.

Throughout this thread I have qualified all of my opinions (which I know some view as extreme, which I feel pretty good about), and yes, actual necessity is one of the good reasons to hunt/have a gun. I have named some other good reasons to carry guns too. However, I don't think there are very many families at all who have to go moose hunting in order to put food on the table (and btw, things get murky once Aboriginal rights and customs come into play). I think 98% of hunters do it for fun and to feel like they're awesome bad asses, and then they eat the meat so that they can claim that it doesn't go to waste, and I'm sure they enjoy eating it (which is obviously better than leaving it to rot, but that isn't the point). They are all douches too.

riley540

I grew up in Alaska fishing and eating fish all year. My uncle would give us a ton of moose as well. It was fantastic. I could never hunt because I love animals, but I love eating animals too.. it’s a tough life 

chadwick

it is healthier meat than what is at the grocery store. ted nugent = idiotic dramatic asshole who kills everything he can & more. ted's a freakshow who likes murdering animals. there are a lot of folks who hunt that are not anything at all like ted.

anyhow, yeah i don't like killing animals (i don't swat flies) therefore i don't. i'll get my meat from the butcher shop down the road.   

PJPOWER

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

ledvedderman said:

I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 

I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.

yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not. 

I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership. 

The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc.  In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well.  Same with pythons in Florida.  If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them.  Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas.  There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here.  Myself, I am a hunter.  I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long.  I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed.  If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting.  Different calibers are used for different animals.  Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family?  Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc.  I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts.  Get off your high horse...

Wrong.  Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge. 

Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct.  They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”.  I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.

Forest service.   Ahhh, right...

You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums.  Much more credible sources here...

We could get into a pissing contest by me putting up my close relations in high places in the USFS against your "acquaintances"  but this is much more fun:

"...some eccentric on the AMT forums". 

Yeah, you just seem like a troll actually...I think the best course of action is probably going to be to just ignore you and move on.  Thank you for your well thought out and literate responses, though, I’m sure someone else will give them the time of day...

Code for "I'm losing this argument so I better lay down an insult and tuck tail and run".

Ya think?  I’ll have to let pjfan know that he is winning a lot more arguments than thought, lol.  Didn’t know we were having a competition?

PJPOWER

chadwick said:

hey i'd be there next to you having no desire to kill a moose (unless starving). however, moose is food on the table for many families. that makes sense to me.

I, for one, would rather harvest my meat from the open range than a wall mart shelf.  To each their own though.

mace1229

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what does registry do? I know in Canada it was scrapped after millions and millions of dollars were spent on it. I mean, isn't it kind of moot now with how many billions of unregistered guns already in the country?

gun buy back programs have worked

Gun buy back programs are a waste of money and do not work.
It gets more guns off the street yes, but who is turning them in? Mostly people who inherited a gun and dont want to deal with it or have no desire to keep one. 
Also, with these buy back programs many people go buy cheap, nonworking guns for $35 and sell it back for $100.
Its just a way for the sheriff and mayor or whoever is involved to brag they got X number of guns off the street with their program.
I doubt a single criminal has ever given up his gun, or stolen/unregistered guns have been returned by someone who intended to use it.

Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted.

I assumed you were referring to the buyback programs that are common here. Australia does not have the same buy back programs we have here. Two completely different programs.
Here its optional, a no-questions-asked deal if you bring in a gun you get $100. That's where you get the scenarios I described before (buy cheap non-working guns to trade in, or its the old lady who husband just died and she doesn't know what do do with him collection of 2 old guns). Neither have been very effective of getting guns out of the hands of those who would use them.

The link and example you provided the decline in murders is not due just to thus buy back programmed. They banned many guns, made it harder to buy guns, and lots more. Their buy back program wasn't optional either, it was designed for the guns that were now illegal. But to keep from pissing people off and making them throw away their $1,000 rifle, they gave them market value when they forfeit their gun.

The buyback programs we offer are useless and a waste of money.

mcgruff10

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

hey i'd be there next to you having no desire to kill a moose (unless starving). however, moose is food on the table for many families. that makes sense to me.

I, for one, would rather harvest my meat from the open range than a wall mart shelf.  To each their own though.

When are you inviting me for a Texas hog hunt? How does wild boar taste?

bri, one thing that I can agree with you in is a type of hunting that I loathe: trapping. 

PJ_Soul

riley540 said:

I grew up in Alaska fishing and eating fish all year. My uncle would give us a ton of moose as well. It was fantastic. I could never hunt because I love animals, but I love eating animals too.. it’s a tough life 

Yeah, I won't eat anything that was hunted in the wild, excluding fish - I dunno, for some reason I don't consider that hunting, which perhaps makes me a jerk ... I actually refuse to eat farmed fished because of the environmental damage coastal fish farms cause. I am not against meat-eating in general - livestock is different to me than wild animals (the environmental damage that mass meat production does is also another topic - complicated, complicated - I eat responsibly raised meat whenever possible), which may or may not be hypocritical (it is), but everyone's a hypocrite, so I'm not too twisted up about it. But since I literally think of the human race as parasites that only damage nature, a scourge upon the Earth, I can't bring myself to give a shit about people who want to kill wild animals unless they are going to go hungry if they don't. If it's not 100% out of need, I think wild animals have the right to be left the fuck alone, to live and fight and die without being unfairly gunned down by parasites. I am aware that hunters hate such an attitude and most would probably hate me too, and I'll take that as a compliment, lol.

chadwick

yes trapping is something to loathe

PJPOWER

mcgruff10 said:

PJPOWER said:

chadwick said:

hey i'd be there next to you having no desire to kill a moose (unless starving). however, moose is food on the table for many families. that makes sense to me.

I, for one, would rather harvest my meat from the open range than a wall mart shelf.  To each their own though.

When are you inviting me for a Texas hog hunt? How does wild boar taste?

bri, one thing that I can agree with you in is a type of hunting that I loathe: trapping. 

Wild boar tastes a lot like any other sausage, just not as fatty as the stuff from the grocery store that came from the pig farms.

mcgruff10

chadwick said:

yes trapping is something to loathe

Yeah definitely not a supporter of trapping, Way too much suffering for the animal. 
Tempo, why aren't you a fan of registerstion when buying a firearm from a person and not a store?

mickeyrat

nice little interactive article.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/

PJPOWER

PJ_Soul said:

riley540 said:

I grew up in Alaska fishing and eating fish all year. My uncle would give us a ton of moose as well. It was fantastic. I could never hunt because I love animals, but I love eating animals too.. it’s a tough life 

Yeah, I won't eat anything that was hunted in the wild, excluding fish - I dunno, for some reason I don't consider that hunting, which perhaps makes me a jerk ... I actually refuse to eat farmed fished because of the environmental damage coastal fish farms cause. I am not against meat-eating in general - livestock is different to me than wild animals (the environmental damage that mass meat production does is also another topic - complicated, complicated - I eat responsibly raised meat whenever possible), which may or may not be hypocritical (it is), but everyone's a hypocrite, so I'm not too twisted up about it. But since I literally think of the human race as parasites that only damage nature, a scourge upon the Earth, I can't bring myself to give a shit about people who want to kill wild animals unless they are going to go hungry if they don't. If it's not 100% out of need, I think wild animals have the right to be left the fuck alone, to live and fight and die without being unfairly gunned down by parasites. I am aware that hunters hate such an attitude and most would probably hate me too, and I'll take that as a compliment, lol.

I wouldn’t say hate...pity maybe.  Nothing better than a nice elk burger or some quail wrapped in bacon.  Also, venison is almost as healthy as fish .  Whitetail season is right around the corner and my freezer is I need of a fresh supply as well is this parasite’s belly! 

PJ_Soul

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

riley540 said:

I grew up in Alaska fishing and eating fish all year. My uncle would give us a ton of moose as well. It was fantastic. I could never hunt because I love animals, but I love eating animals too.. it’s a tough life 

Yeah, I won't eat anything that was hunted in the wild, excluding fish - I dunno, for some reason I don't consider that hunting, which perhaps makes me a jerk ... I actually refuse to eat farmed fished because of the environmental damage coastal fish farms cause. I am not against meat-eating in general - livestock is different to me than wild animals (the environmental damage that mass meat production does is also another topic - complicated, complicated - I eat responsibly raised meat whenever possible), which may or may not be hypocritical (it is), but everyone's a hypocrite, so I'm not too twisted up about it. But since I literally think of the human race as parasites that only damage nature, a scourge upon the Earth, I can't bring myself to give a shit about people who want to kill wild animals unless they are going to go hungry if they don't. If it's not 100% out of need, I think wild animals have the right to be left the fuck alone, to live and fight and die without being unfairly gunned down by parasites. I am aware that hunters hate such an attitude and most would probably hate me too, and I'll take that as a compliment, lol.

I wouldn’t say hate...pity maybe.  Nothing better than a nice elk burger or some quail wrapped in bacon.  Also, venison is almost as healthy as fish .  Whitetail season is right around the corner and my freezer is I need of a fresh supply as well is this parasite’s belly! 

Save your pity for the all the hundred of people who were hit by bullets in Vegas the other night and for the families of the dead.
Yeah, I'm pleased to sacrifice deliciousness to spare those poor animals that horror in their own territory.

PJPOWER

PJ_Soul said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

riley540 said:

I grew up in Alaska fishing and eating fish all year. My uncle would give us a ton of moose as well. It was fantastic. I could never hunt because I love animals, but I love eating animals too.. it’s a tough life 

Yeah, I won't eat anything that was hunted in the wild, excluding fish - I dunno, for some reason I don't consider that hunting, which perhaps makes me a jerk ... I actually refuse to eat farmed fished because of the environmental damage coastal fish farms cause. I am not against meat-eating in general - livestock is different to me than wild animals (the environmental damage that mass meat production does is also another topic - complicated, complicated - I eat responsibly raised meat whenever possible), which may or may not be hypocritical (it is), but everyone's a hypocrite, so I'm not too twisted up about it. But since I literally think of the human race as parasites that only damage nature, a scourge upon the Earth, I can't bring myself to give a shit about people who want to kill wild animals unless they are going to go hungry if they don't. If it's not 100% out of need, I think wild animals have the right to be left the fuck alone, to live and fight and die without being unfairly gunned down by parasites. I am aware that hunters hate such an attitude and most would probably hate me too, and I'll take that as a compliment, lol.

I wouldn’t say hate...pity maybe.  Nothing better than a nice elk burger or some quail wrapped in bacon.  Also, venison is almost as healthy as fish .  Whitetail season is right around the corner and my freezer is I need of a fresh supply as well is this parasite’s belly! 

Save your pity for the all the hundred of people who were hit by bullets in Vegas the other night and for the families of the dead.
Yeah, I'm pleased to sacrifice deliciousness to spare those poor animals that horror in their own territory.

Were those people some of the parasites that you mentioned?
Hunters are the least of the horrors in “their own territory”.  Truly a life lesson watching a doe getting its backside eaten by a coyote while giving birth.