I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
Non smoker. Work out every day but one. Eat oatmeal every morning except on weekends.
Do drink. No drugs. Never drive when drinking. Never drink to 'great' excess.
Crave Big Macs, but never give in to the cravings knowing how brutal they are (from the plant processing phase to the digestion phase).
I'd be one of the 'anti gunners', but I'm not really. I just wish your country could implement some common sense legislation that, in 20 years, might reflect a profound change in the amount of gun violence your country features per annum.
Thirty bills I d call you by your first name but you never shared it with me so I ll call you joe. Joe, wjere are you from?!?! Mike
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
i agree with you thirty bills! in the event that a home invasion does occur i do have the means to protect my family as highly unlikely as it is. I don't understand how people with kids could leave loaded weapons accessible. I think I told you, all my ammo is locked away and every one of my rifles has a trigger lock on it. Those keys are then in a secure locker. Hell my bolt action rifles don't even have the bolts in them; they are stored separate too in a locked cabinet. The only weapon that has ammo and gun next to each other is my handgun which is in a locked cabinet. I'm the only one who has the key.
More folks should be like you it sounds to me like you are super responsible with your weapons ...
Yep, I live in western PA where guns are huge. Almost every family I know, including my own, has guns and not a single one of them is this careful with them. My stepdad leaves his handgun on the kitchen table loaded many times, with my 11 and 12 year old sisters running around, and he's been doing it since they were much younger.
Thanks for being open with this. Good for you for recognizing the problem versus accepting and defending it.
Thanks, this is one of the reasons that I want much stricter gun control. For every mcgruff there is a Riotzact's stepdad. My stepdad has no criminal record, isn't particularly crazy or anything like that. He's all I could ask for in a stepdad and is a great father to my sisters, he just shows very little responsibility when it comes to guns. I have no worry about his hunting rifles upstairs, they are unloaded and in the closet, but his semi automatic handgun that he needs for "protection" is always loaded and in a place it shouldn't be.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
i agree with you thirty bills! in the event that a home invasion does occur i do have the means to protect my family as highly unlikely as it is. I don't understand how people with kids could leave loaded weapons accessible. I think I told you, all my ammo is locked away and every one of my rifles has a trigger lock on it. Those keys are then in a secure locker. Hell my bolt action rifles don't even have the bolts in them; they are stored separate too in a locked cabinet. The only weapon that has ammo and gun next to each other is my handgun which is in a locked cabinet. I'm the only one who has the key.
More folks should be like you it sounds to me like you are super responsible with your weapons ...
Yep, I live in western PA where guns are huge. Almost every family I know, including my own, has guns and not a single one of them is this careful with them. My stepdad leaves his handgun on the kitchen table loaded many times, with my 11 and 12 year old sisters running around, and he's been doing it since they were much younger.
Thanks for being open with this. Good for you for recognizing the problem versus accepting and defending it.
Thanks, this is one of the reasons that I want much stricter gun control. For every mcgruff there is a Riotzact's stepdad. My stepdad has no criminal record, isn't particularly crazy or anything like that. He's all I could ask for in a stepdad and is a great father to my sisters, he just shows very little responsibility when it comes to guns. I have no worry about his hunting rifles upstairs, they are unloaded and in the closet, but his semi automatic handgun that he needs for "protection" is always loaded and in a place it shouldn't be.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
Has he educated your sisters/the household on proper gun safety? When parents show and share with the children how to respect the weapon.What not to do with the weapon it takes the mystery and/or sexiness away from the item. Much like teaching children about lawn mower safety,or how to handle pool chemical or exposed wires/electrical stuff.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
i agree with you thirty bills! in the event that a home invasion does occur i do have the means to protect my family as highly unlikely as it is. I don't understand how people with kids could leave loaded weapons accessible. I think I told you, all my ammo is locked away and every one of my rifles has a trigger lock on it. Those keys are then in a secure locker. Hell my bolt action rifles don't even have the bolts in them; they are stored separate too in a locked cabinet. The only weapon that has ammo and gun next to each other is my handgun which is in a locked cabinet. I'm the only one who has the key.
More folks should be like you it sounds to me like you are super responsible with your weapons ...
Yep, I live in western PA where guns are huge. Almost every family I know, including my own, has guns and not a single one of them is this careful with them. My stepdad leaves his handgun on the kitchen table loaded many times, with my 11 and 12 year old sisters running around, and he's been doing it since they were much younger.
Thanks for being open with this. Good for you for recognizing the problem versus accepting and defending it.
Thanks, this is one of the reasons that I want much stricter gun control. For every mcgruff there is a Riotzact's stepdad. My stepdad has no criminal record, isn't particularly crazy or anything like that. He's all I could ask for in a stepdad and is a great father to my sisters, he just shows very little responsibility when it comes to guns. I have no worry about his hunting rifles upstairs, they are unloaded and in the closet, but his semi automatic handgun that he needs for "protection" is always loaded and in a place it shouldn't be.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
Has he educated your sisters/the household on proper gun safety? When parents show and share with the children how to respect the weapon.What not to do with the weapon it takes the mystery and/or sexiness away from the item. Much like teaching children about lawn mower safety,or how to handle pool chemical or exposed wires/electrical stuff.
Yeah he has, anytime I question him about it he says "they know better, hey girls, what happens if you touch my gun?" and they say "we die". But that's still not nearly good enough for me.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Did you really say whats the difference between smoking and over eating to leaving a hand gun laying around the house with children in it?
So let me ask you gun proponents a question. Hypothetically speaking would you rather have status quo, easy access to guns or if you could wave a magical wand, and all guns gone from private parties?
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Because I'm in control of what I digest. Proliferation of guns by others affects my safety.
But we'll go round and round.
So what do we do now?
Keep the status quo. Anyone with a pulse easily getting a gun?
Register all guns and holding owners responsible in event they are stolen and used in a crime?
Banning certain guns?
Or do as Australia and get rid of them?
I don't know. Just sucks that humans that say they are civilized just give it all up when it comes to killin.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Did you really say whats the difference between smoking and over eating to leaving a hand gun laying around the house with children in it?
Dude where do you get that from? Did you not read how I secure my firearms? My point was, how does having a gun in my house directly effect you and why do you care? If you don't want one fine.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Did you really say whats the difference between smoking and over eating to leaving a hand gun laying around the house with children in it?
Dude where do you get that from? Did you not read how I secure my firearms? My point was, how does having a gun in my house directly effect you and why do you care? If you don't want one fine.
Unfortunately we have to put rules in place for the average Joe. And they don't secure their guns. How the criminals get their guns. Stolen.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Did you really say whats the difference between smoking and over eating to leaving a hand gun laying around the house with children in it?
Dude where do you get that from? Did you not read how I secure my firearms? My point was, how does having a gun in my house directly effect you and why do you care? If you don't want one fine.
Unfortunately we have to put rules in place for the average Joe. And they don't secure their guns. How the criminals get their guns. Stolen.
Very very true callen. I m still thinking about your other post.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
They called me the gruel king in university. I ate oatmeal everyday. At the end of every term, I was always out of cash and resorted to gruel 3X a day.
I hear your argument, however with harmful individual choices such as smoking or overeating, nobody else is directly affected. A gun carries the potential to infringe on someone else's right to personal safety.
In all areas of life, we see things modified, adjusted, or eliminated because idiots have forced us to adapt given the abuse of privilege. For example, I am a very good driver capable of driving at a much higher speed than the posted limit; however, too many idiots with little to no awareness or minimal skill have driven too fast in the past and hurt people as a result. Therefore, speed limits have been established in the interest of public safety.
It's an understatement to say too many idiots have abused the lenient gun laws in the US. It seems to me that 'speed limits' need to be set with regards to gun ownership. I've said it before, but citizens do not need handguns (the main problem), nor do they need assault rifles (we've already discussed the differences from long barreled rifles that distinguish them as 'assault'), and nor do they need large capacity magazines (6 is adequate for any level of hunting).
Among many things, I'd think that a massive registration process, a buy back program, and fair grandfather clauses would be reasonable. There is no quick fix or band aid solution to what ails your country, but steps taken to make a difference 10-20 years from now need to be taken at some point.
Then there's the entire issue of social programs which carry the potential to connect the impoverished with mainstream society and keep many from a life of crime given few to no options otherwise.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Did you really say whats the difference between smoking and over eating to leaving a hand gun laying around the house with children in it?
Dude where do you get that from? Did you not read how I secure my firearms? My point was, how does having a gun in my house directly effect you and why do you care? If you don't want one fine.
That's where I got that from. I congratulate you on the way you keep your guns. Unfortunately, I think you are in the minority.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Did you really say whats the difference between smoking and over eating to leaving a hand gun laying around the house with children in it?
Dude where do you get that from? Did you not read how I secure my firearms? My point was, how does having a gun in my house directly effect you and why do you care? If you don't want one fine.
Unfortunately we have to put rules in place for the average Joe. And they don't secure their guns. How the criminals get their guns. Stolen.
Very very true callen. I m still thinking about your other post.
For the record love the engineering and history of guns and can very much appreciate collecting old examples. We had a few growing up.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
i agree with you thirty bills! in the event that a home invasion does occur i do have the means to protect my family as highly unlikely as it is. I don't understand how people with kids could leave loaded weapons accessible. I think I told you, all my ammo is locked away and every one of my rifles has a trigger lock on it. Those keys are then in a secure locker. Hell my bolt action rifles don't even have the bolts in them; they are stored separate too in a locked cabinet. The only weapon that has ammo and gun next to each other is my handgun which is in a locked cabinet. I'm the only one who has the key.
More folks should be like you it sounds to me like you are super responsible with your weapons ...
Yep, I live in western PA where guns are huge. Almost every family I know, including my own, has guns and not a single one of them is this careful with them. My stepdad leaves his handgun on the kitchen table loaded many times, with my 11 and 12 year old sisters running around, and he's been doing it since they were much younger.
Thanks for being open with this. Good for you for recognizing the problem versus accepting and defending it.
Thanks, this is one of the reasons that I want much stricter gun control. For every mcgruff there is a Riotzact's stepdad. My stepdad has no criminal record, isn't particularly crazy or anything like that. He's all I could ask for in a stepdad and is a great father to my sisters, he just shows very little responsibility when it comes to guns. I have no worry about his hunting rifles upstairs, they are unloaded and in the closet, but his semi automatic handgun that he needs for "protection" is always loaded and in a place it shouldn't be.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
Has he educated your sisters/the household on proper gun safety? When parents show and share with the children how to respect the weapon.What not to do with the weapon it takes the mystery and/or sexiness away from the item. Much like teaching children about lawn mower safety,or how to handle pool chemical or exposed wires/electrical stuff.
Yeah he has, anytime I question him about it he says "they know better, hey girls, what happens if you touch my gun?" and they say "we die". But that's still not nearly good enough for me.
There is good evidence that even kids who have been told repeatedly not to touch guns will do so when they think they can get away with it. Of course, it depends on factors like personality, the age of the child, and how impulsive they are. There is the fascination with the forbidden and the glamour of firearms as they see them on tv and movies.
Parents on the board, did/do your children obey your direction each and every time you gave it during the many long years they were growing up? Did all of their little friends obey you when they were over to your house? Yeah, I thought not.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
So let me ask you gun proponents a question. Hypothetically speaking would you rather have status quo, easy access to guns or if you could wave a magical wand, and all guns gone from private parties?
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
Not to mention the fact that it has been proven to INCREASE the chance of gun death for the owner of the gun.
I hope all anti gunners are non smokers and hit the gym three to four times a week!
That's totally a deflection and irrelevant. People don't smoke, eat bad, and laze out of a misguided attempt to protect themselves.
Yeah but smoking, eating bad and not exercising increases your chances of dying. So what s the difference? Why do you care if I or any citizen has a gun in their home? It s my home. Just like I could give a rats ass if you smoke. Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
Because I'm in control of what I digest. Proliferation of guns by others affects my safety.
But we'll go round and round.
So what do we do now?
Keep the status quo. Anyone with a pulse easily getting a gun?
Register all guns and holding owners responsible in event they are stolen and used in a crime?
Banning certain guns?
Or do as Australia and get rid of them?
I don't know. Just sucks that humans that say they are civilized just give it all up when it comes to killin.
Callen here s my suggestions: every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly. There you go my friend! Mike
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
i agree with you thirty bills! in the event that a home invasion does occur i do have the means to protect my family as highly unlikely as it is. I don't understand how people with kids could leave loaded weapons accessible. I think I told you, all my ammo is locked away and every one of my rifles has a trigger lock on it. Those keys are then in a secure locker. Hell my bolt action rifles don't even have the bolts in them; they are stored separate too in a locked cabinet. The only weapon that has ammo and gun next to each other is my handgun which is in a locked cabinet. I'm the only one who has the key.
More folks should be like you it sounds to me like you are super responsible with your weapons ...
Yep, I live in western PA where guns are huge. Almost every family I know, including my own, has guns and not a single one of them is this careful with them. My stepdad leaves his handgun on the kitchen table loaded many times, with my 11 and 12 year old sisters running around, and he's been doing it since they were much younger.
Thanks for being open with this. Good for you for recognizing the problem versus accepting and defending it.
Thanks, this is one of the reasons that I want much stricter gun control. For every mcgruff there is a Riotzact's stepdad. My stepdad has no criminal record, isn't particularly crazy or anything like that. He's all I could ask for in a stepdad and is a great father to my sisters, he just shows very little responsibility when it comes to guns. I have no worry about his hunting rifles upstairs, they are unloaded and in the closet, but his semi automatic handgun that he needs for "protection" is always loaded and in a place it shouldn't be.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
Has he educated your sisters/the household on proper gun safety? When parents show and share with the children how to respect the weapon.What not to do with the weapon it takes the mystery and/or sexiness away from the item. Much like teaching children about lawn mower safety,or how to handle pool chemical or exposed wires/electrical stuff.
Yeah he has, anytime I question him about it he says "they know better, hey girls, what happens if you touch my gun?" and they say "we die". But that's still not nearly good enough for me.
There is good evidence that even kids who have been told repeatedly not to touch guns will do so when they think they can get away with it. Of course, it depends on factors like personality, the age of the child, and how impulsive they are. There is the fascination with the forbidden and the glamour of firearms as they see them on tv and movies.
Parents on the board, did/do your children obey your direction each and every time you gave it during the many long years they were growing up? Did all of their little friends obey you when they were over to your house? Yeah, I thought not.
I would not define a responsible gun owner as someone who hasn't committed a crime. Someone can easily be an irresponsible gun owner and not commit a crime. ANY gun owner who leaves his gun in his house unlocked with children in the house is an irresponsible gun owner.
Exactly. Everyone's responsible... until something happens.
Guns are supposed to be locked in a locker and separate from your ammunition. We've had people on here say they have their guns loaded and around the house- citing a locked up gun wouldn't be any use to them if the bad guys were getting them.
People are tossing statistics around... the likelihood of a home invasion is miniscule at best. To assume the risks attached to leaving a loaded gun lying around the house for the highly unlikely event of a home invasion is not only irresponsible... it's foolish.
i agree with you thirty bills! in the event that a home invasion does occur i do have the means to protect my family as highly unlikely as it is. I don't understand how people with kids could leave loaded weapons accessible. I think I told you, all my ammo is locked away and every one of my rifles has a trigger lock on it. Those keys are then in a secure locker. Hell my bolt action rifles don't even have the bolts in them; they are stored separate too in a locked cabinet. The only weapon that has ammo and gun next to each other is my handgun which is in a locked cabinet. I'm the only one who has the key.
More folks should be like you it sounds to me like you are super responsible with your weapons ...
Yep, I live in western PA where guns are huge. Almost every family I know, including my own, has guns and not a single one of them is this careful with them. My stepdad leaves his handgun on the kitchen table loaded many times, with my 11 and 12 year old sisters running around, and he's been doing it since they were much younger.
Thanks for being open with this. Good for you for recognizing the problem versus accepting and defending it.
Thanks, this is one of the reasons that I want much stricter gun control. For every mcgruff there is a Riotzact's stepdad. My stepdad has no criminal record, isn't particularly crazy or anything like that. He's all I could ask for in a stepdad and is a great father to my sisters, he just shows very little responsibility when it comes to guns. I have no worry about his hunting rifles upstairs, they are unloaded and in the closet, but his semi automatic handgun that he needs for "protection" is always loaded and in a place it shouldn't be.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
Has he educated your sisters/the household on proper gun safety? When parents show and share with the children how to respect the weapon.What not to do with the weapon it takes the mystery and/or sexiness away from the item. Much like teaching children about lawn mower safety,or how to handle pool chemical or exposed wires/electrical stuff.
Yeah he has, anytime I question him about it he says "they know better, hey girls, what happens if you touch my gun?" and they say "we die". But that's still not nearly good enough for me.
There is good evidence that even kids who have been told repeatedly not to touch guns will do so when they think they can get away with it. Of course, it depends on factors like personality, the age of the child, and how impulsive they are. There is the fascination with the forbidden and the glamour of firearms as they see them on tv and movies.
Parents on the board, did/do your children obey your direction each and every time you gave it during the many long years they were growing up? Did all of their little friends obey you when they were over to your house? Yeah, I thought not.
Now I might be different but I m going to use what my dad with me. Mind you I have five kids....so I started walking the fields with my dad at age 7. I saw what a gun can do and learned to respect firearms very very quickly. Started going to the range around 9....my dad always going over every safety rule out there. My dad would help show me how to clean each gun after we used them in order to get a better understanding on how everything worked. Got my liscense at age ten and have been around firearms since then. My dad always safely locked away each firearm in a safe and hid the key very very well. Ammo was always stored separately in a different safe with a different key. Mind you both of my grandfathers both hunted and always would question me about proper hunting etiquette, safety, only shoot what you eat, waste nothing....etc
Mcgruff,your right on the money with your proposed changes to handgun ownership.Id get behind every one of them.Common sense stuff.
Riotz,the reason I asked what age your sibs were was basically the same reason as Mcgruff stated above.By teaching the child to not just fear a gun or stay away from a gun,but teach them how it works,it's safety issues,how to clean and most important how to use it safely.My youngest daughter is the only kid of mine who wanted anything to do with firearms.As a junior High kid she wanted to be an FBI agent when she grew up(that has so changed now).In HS she was a police explorer.I would take her to the range and teach her stuff and she would learn from the instructing officers when at explorer meetings.She hung a body target with a nice tight grouping of shots on her wall right next to a Jonny depp and blink 182 poster.She was proud of it. Although she chooses not to have a weapon while away at school I'm sure when she's done she will want it for protecting and it's no big deal because she knows how to use and handle it.Just saying if your educated it takes the mystery away.I know it's not for everyone,which is cool.
Mcgruff,your right on the money with your proposed changes to handgun ownership.Id get behind every one of them.Common sense stuff.
Riotz,the reason I asked what age your sibs were was basically the same reason as Mcgruff stated above.By teaching the child to not just fear a gun or stay away from a gun,but teach them how it works,it's safety issues,how to clean and most important how to use it safely.My youngest daughter is the only kid of mine who wanted anything to do with firearms.As a junior High kid she wanted to be an FBI agent when she grew up(that has so changed now).In HS she was a police explorer.I would take her to the range and teach her stuff and she would learn from the instructing officers when at explorer meetings.She hung a body target with a nice tight grouping of shots on her wall right next to a Jonny depp and blink 182 poster.She was proud of it. Although she chooses not to have a weapon while away at school I'm sure when she's done she will want it for protecting and it's no big deal because she knows how to use and handle it.Just saying if your educated it takes the mystery away.I know it's not for everyone,which is cool.
Mcgruff,your right on the money with your proposed changes to handgun ownership.Id get behind every one of them.Common sense stuff.
Riotz,the reason I asked what age your sibs were was basically the same reason as Mcgruff stated above.By teaching the child to not just fear a gun or stay away from a gun,but teach them how it works,it's safety issues,how to clean and most important how to use it safely.My youngest daughter is the only kid of mine who wanted anything to do with firearms.As a junior High kid she wanted to be an FBI agent when she grew up(that has so changed now).In HS she was a police explorer.I would take her to the range and teach her stuff and she would learn from the instructing officers when at explorer meetings.She hung a body target with a nice tight grouping of shots on her wall right next to a Jonny depp and blink 182 poster.She was proud of it. Although she chooses not to have a weapon while away at school I'm sure when she's done she will want it for protecting and it's no big deal because she knows how to use and handle it.Just saying if your educated it takes the mystery away.I know it's not for everyone,which is cool.
Education is key!!!!!
Education is only part of it. Parents also have to bear in mind the normal developmental stage of the child and NOT believe that they can forgo safe gun storage just because their child "knows better".
I read a study a year or two ago that I can't put my hands on this minute but I can try to look for it. Basically the researchers brought in a group of American parents who had guns in the house and asked them about how they had educated their children about guns and what to do with them. Each parents insisted that their child knew not to touch a gun if they found one (for instance, at a friend's house) and would never disobey this. Then the kids were allowed into a room that included a real (unloaded) gun as well as a number of other things. A majority of the kids not only touched but handled the gun despite their parents' insistence that they would not. If I remember correctly, the parents were allowed to watch through a one way mirror and were aghast at what their kids did when they thought they weren't watched.
My bottom line - an unsecured gun in a house where there are minors is never safe.
Edit: I can't find the study but I found this description of a similar study in an article:
Most parents believe their child is smart enough not to touch a gun, surveys show. Studies prove them wrong, Kellermann said.
In an experiment in which researchers observed how 8- to 12-year-old boys behaved when left alone in a room with a hidden gun, 75% of boys found the gun within 15 minutes. Only one of 64 kids in the experiment left the room to notify an adult. The gun was modified so it couldn't fire.
Of the boys who found the gun, 63% handled it and 33% pulled the trigger.
More than 90% of boys who handled the gun or pulled the trigger said they had received some sort of gun safety instruction, says Kellermann, co-author of the study, published in Pediatrics in 2001.
Post edited by oftenreading on
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Mcgruff,your right on the money with your proposed changes to handgun ownership.Id get behind every one of them.Common sense stuff.
Riotz,the reason I asked what age your sibs were was basically the same reason as Mcgruff stated above.By teaching the child to not just fear a gun or stay away from a gun,but teach them how it works,it's safety issues,how to clean and most important how to use it safely.My youngest daughter is the only kid of mine who wanted anything to do with firearms.As a junior High kid she wanted to be an FBI agent when she grew up(that has so changed now).In HS she was a police explorer.I would take her to the range and teach her stuff and she would learn from the instructing officers when at explorer meetings.She hung a body target with a nice tight grouping of shots on her wall right next to a Jonny depp and blink 182 poster.She was proud of it. Although she chooses not to have a weapon while away at school I'm sure when she's done she will want it for protecting and it's no big deal because she knows how to use and handle it.Just saying if your educated it takes the mystery away.I know it's not for everyone,which is cool.
Education is key!!!!!
Education is only part of it. Parents also have to bear in mind the normal developmental stage of the child and NOT believe that they can forgo safe gun storage just because their child "knows better".
I read a study a year or two ago that I can't put my hands on this minute but I can try to look for it. Basically the researchers brought in a group of American parents who had guns in the house and asked them about how they had educated their children about guns and what to do with them. Each parents insisted that their child knew not to touch a gun if they found one (for instance, at a friend's house) and would never disobey this. Then the kids were allowed into a room that included a real (unloaded) gun as well as a number of other things. A majority of the kids not only touched but handled the gun despite their parents' insistence that they would not. If I remember correctly, the parents were allowed to watch through a one way mirror and were aghast at what their kids did when they thought they weren't watched.
My bottom line - an unsecured gun in a house where there are minors is never safe.
100% agree with you. No weapon just be unsecured when kids are around!!!
Mcgruff,your right on the money with your proposed changes to handgun ownership.Id get behind every one of them.Common sense stuff.
Riotz,the reason I asked what age your sibs were was basically the same reason as Mcgruff stated above.By teaching the child to not just fear a gun or stay away from a gun,but teach them how it works,it's safety issues,how to clean and most important how to use it safely.My youngest daughter is the only kid of mine who wanted anything to do with firearms.As a junior High kid she wanted to be an FBI agent when she grew up(that has so changed now).In HS she was a police explorer.I would take her to the range and teach her stuff and she would learn from the instructing officers when at explorer meetings.She hung a body target with a nice tight grouping of shots on her wall right next to a Jonny depp and blink 182 poster.She was proud of it. Although she chooses not to have a weapon while away at school I'm sure when she's done she will want it for protecting and it's no big deal because she knows how to use and handle it.Just saying if your educated it takes the mystery away.I know it's not for everyone,which is cool.
Education is key!!!!!
Education is only part of it. Parents also have to bear in mind the normal developmental stage of the child and NOT believe that they can forgo safe gun storage just because their child "knows better".
I read a study a year or two ago that I can't put my hands on this minute but I can try to look for it. Basically the researchers brought in a group of American parents who had guns in the house and asked them about how they had educated their children about guns and what to do with them. Each parents insisted that their child knew not to touch a gun if they found one (for instance, at a friend's house) and would never disobey this. Then the kids were allowed into a room that included a real (unloaded) gun as well as a number of other things. A majority of the kids not only touched but handled the gun despite their parents' insistence that they would not. If I remember correctly, the parents were allowed to watch through a one way mirror and were aghast at what their kids did when they thought they weren't watched.
My bottom line - an unsecured gun in a house where there are minors is never safe.
I agree with your ways to keep guns out of the wrong people's hands McGruff. Except I do think some guns should be banned from civilian use. As I've said before, any weapon designed for military use should not be used by civilians.
I agree with your ways to keep guns out of the wrong people's hands McGruff. Except I do think some guns should be banned from civilian use. As I've said before, any weapon designed for military use should not be used by civilians.
Let's get the federal government to pass everything I mentioned. Wait three to five years and if my suggestions don't work we ll start banning some guns.
I agree with your ways to keep guns out of the wrong people's hands McGruff. Except I do think some guns should be banned from civilian use. As I've said before, any weapon designed for military use should not be used by civilians.
Let's get the federal government to pass everything I mentioned. Wait three to five years and if my suggestions don't work we ll start banning some guns.
I'm impressed with the open-minded perspective here, McScruffy.
Your willingness to concede a problem exists, thoughtfulness towards proactive solutions, and thorough gun ownership behaviours lend support to the pro-gun side. When I read your posts, I don't roll my eyes... I think how heavy handed legislation would affect your life.
Comments
I'm from British Columbia, Canada.
But how are we supposed to differentiate people like mcgruff from my stepdad? I hate to let a few assholes ruin something for responsible people but sometimes it's the only way.
Much like teaching children about lawn mower safety,or how to handle pool chemical or exposed wires/electrical stuff.
Thirty bills we could be brothers! I go to the gym five times a week, Don t smoke, drink but no drugs and eat oatmeal everyday too!!!
But we'll go round and round.
So what do we do now?
Keep the status quo. Anyone with a pulse easily getting a gun?
Register all guns and holding owners responsible in event they are stolen and used in a crime?
Banning certain guns?
Or do as Australia and get rid of them?
I don't know. Just sucks that humans that say they are civilized just give it all up when it comes to killin.
My point was, how does having a gun in my house directly effect you and why do you care? If you don't want one fine.
I hear your argument, however with harmful individual choices such as smoking or overeating, nobody else is directly affected. A gun carries the potential to infringe on someone else's right to personal safety.
In all areas of life, we see things modified, adjusted, or eliminated because idiots have forced us to adapt given the abuse of privilege. For example, I am a very good driver capable of driving at a much higher speed than the posted limit; however, too many idiots with little to no awareness or minimal skill have driven too fast in the past and hurt people as a result. Therefore, speed limits have been established in the interest of public safety.
It's an understatement to say too many idiots have abused the lenient gun laws in the US. It seems to me that 'speed limits' need to be set with regards to gun ownership. I've said it before, but citizens do not need handguns (the main problem), nor do they need assault rifles (we've already discussed the differences from long barreled rifles that distinguish them as 'assault'), and nor do they need large capacity magazines (6 is adequate for any level of hunting).
Among many things, I'd think that a massive registration process, a buy back program, and fair grandfather clauses would be reasonable. There is no quick fix or band aid solution to what ails your country, but steps taken to make a difference 10-20 years from now need to be taken at some point.
Then there's the entire issue of social programs which carry the potential to connect the impoverished with mainstream society and keep many from a life of crime given few to no options otherwise.
Parents on the board, did/do your children obey your direction each and every time you gave it during the many long years they were growing up? Did all of their little friends obey you when they were over to your house? Yeah, I thought not.
There you go my friend!
Mike
Mind you both of my grandfathers both hunted and always would question me about proper hunting etiquette, safety, only shoot what you eat, waste nothing....etc
Riotz,the reason I asked what age your sibs were was basically the same reason as Mcgruff stated above.By teaching the child to not just fear a gun or stay away from a gun,but teach them how it works,it's safety issues,how to clean and most important how to use it safely.My youngest daughter is the only kid of mine who wanted anything to do with firearms.As a junior High kid she wanted to be an FBI agent when she grew up(that has so changed now).In HS she was a police explorer.I would take her to the range and teach her stuff and she would learn from the instructing officers when at explorer meetings.She hung a body target with a nice tight grouping of shots on her wall right next to a Jonny depp and blink 182 poster.She was proud of it.
Although she chooses not to have a weapon while away at school I'm sure when she's done she will want it for protecting and it's no big deal because she knows how to use and handle it.Just saying if your educated it takes the mystery away.I know it's not for everyone,which is cool.
I read a study a year or two ago that I can't put my hands on this minute but I can try to look for it. Basically the researchers brought in a group of American parents who had guns in the house and asked them about how they had educated their children about guns and what to do with them. Each parents insisted that their child knew not to touch a gun if they found one (for instance, at a friend's house) and would never disobey this. Then the kids were allowed into a room that included a real (unloaded) gun as well as a number of other things. A majority of the kids not only touched but handled the gun despite their parents' insistence that they would not. If I remember correctly, the parents were allowed to watch through a one way mirror and were aghast at what their kids did when they thought they weren't watched.
My bottom line - an unsecured gun in a house where there are minors is never safe.
Edit: I can't find the study but I found this description of a similar study in an article:
Most parents believe their child is smart enough not to touch a gun, surveys show. Studies prove them wrong, Kellermann said.
In an experiment in which researchers observed how 8- to 12-year-old boys behaved when left alone in a room with a hidden gun, 75% of boys found the gun within 15 minutes. Only one of 64 kids in the experiment left the room to notify an adult. The gun was modified so it couldn't fire.
Of the boys who found the gun, 63% handled it and 33% pulled the trigger.
More than 90% of boys who handled the gun or pulled the trigger said they had received some sort of gun safety instruction, says Kellermann, co-author of the study, published in Pediatrics in 2001.
Your willingness to concede a problem exists, thoughtfulness towards proactive solutions, and thorough gun ownership behaviours lend support to the pro-gun side. When I read your posts, I don't roll my eyes... I think how heavy handed legislation would affect your life.
100% agree with you. No weapon just be unsecured when kids are around!!!<</i>/blockquote>
Your bottom line is indisputable.
Wow - my conclusions are indisputable today.
Now about that DP thread....
Your bottom line is indisputable
Wow - my conclusions are indisputable today.
Now about that DP thread....
Said Winston Churchill.