America's Gun Violence

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    PJPOWER said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJPOWER said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    my2hands said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    rssesq said:


    :confused: Next to no one thinks gun control should keep people in the protection industry from carrying guns.
    It's an interesting point actually. What's the difference if Bloomberg carries the gun or he pays someone to carry it for him? And why should one person be allowed the right to carry a firearm for self defense (or have someone carry for him in this case) and another person is not?

    Tricky stuff
    Not really. Carrying privately vs carrying professionally. It's not a very complicated distinction. One is specifically trained to deal with dangerous situations and to use their firearms in a way that doesn't, say, endanger by-standers too much, and they are less likely use the gun unnecessarily or misread a situation, etc. The other is most likely completely clueless about how to deal with dangerous situations like that, and may endanger innocent people while trying to protect themselves, or may not even be able to read the situation well enough to determine if they are even in danger or not, which could lead to unjustified shootings.
    So what about private citizens carrying that have been trained...aka concealed carry permits? In my state, Texas, you must have a FBI background check, training course that teaches you situational awareness/how to avoid shooting bystanders/how to deal with dangerous people/laws regarding justification, and be fingerprinted to legally carry a pistol...
    As I said, I think the problem is not gun laws, but gun culture. Ideally, American will evolve to a point where everyone isn't fucking scared of everything and have absolutely no desire to carry guns at all or to even really think about them, like the rest of the western world. People walking around the US with concealed guns just constantly perpetuates that gun culture IMO, and that is why I don't particularly support concealed, or, even more, open carry unless the profession necessitates it, i.e. cops, secret service, military, some security guards, etc).
    So your context of a person's safety is directly related to a person's profession? I can think of plenty of situations where private citizens working normal jobs may be at risk of being attacked...messy divorces, child custody issues, etc
    Again, no. It's about a person's ability to properly handle firearms during dangerous situations. It's about putting public safety first.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I have probably shot more rounds through more different guns than most police officers.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    I have probably shot more rounds through more different guns than most police officers.

    Having people like you who make up our well regulated militia is why I sleep well.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited March 2017
    unsung said:

    I have probably shot more rounds through more different guns than most police officers.

    Oh yeah? And have you gone through extensive training for handling dangerous public shooter situations? On how to deescalate, protect the public, how to properly assess violent situations, and had a thorough psychological evaluation as well as a full test of all of those skills put together? If not, I'm really not comfortable with you walking around with a weapon (that is also why I'm extremely concerned about the quality of training for the police, both in the US and Canada). Just knowing how to shoot a firearm means next to nothing.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,182
    I have done those things. There are training programs available to those who are interested and capable.

    Currently, there is no requirement to get that level of training in order to carry a gun in the US. I would not oppose such requirements but realistically, I don't think that legislation would have a chance. Also, it would be nearly impossible to enforce due to the volume of privately owned guns in this country.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    I have probably shot more rounds through more different guns than most police officers.

    Oh yeah? And have you gone through extensive training for handling dangerous public shooter situations? On how to deescalate, protect the public, how to properly assess violent situations, and had a thorough psychological evaluation as well as a full test of all of those skills put together? If not, I'm really not comfortable with you walking around with a weapon (that is also why I'm extremely concerned about the quality of training for the police, both in the US and Canada). Just knowing how to shoot a firearm means next to nothing.
    LOL, actually yes most of it. I have over 100 hours of paid training.

    Plus the bonus, I am not a chickenshit that hides behind a "thin blue line", a badge, or say how I was in fear of my life, nor have I appealed to the public that I was "just doing my job". Plus I have never shot a family dog because I was scared of it barking at me.
  • ponytd
    ponytd Nashville Posts: 671
    dudeman said:

    I have done those things. There are training programs available to those who are interested and capable.

    Currently, there is no requirement to get that level of training in order to carry a gun in the US. I would not oppose such requirements but realistically, I don't think that legislation would have a chance. Also, it would be nearly impossible to enforce due to the volume of privately owned guns in this country.

    I wouldn't oppose such requirements either. But I don't think you'd have to make everyone take it. Just those with licensed carry permits. I plan on taking several of these types of courses this year, but only because I have my carry permit. I wouldn't take them if I didn't have it and just owned a gun to keep in my home. However, if you just own guns, you should be required to take basic safety and handling classes. that would probably be hard to enact also, but it would cut down on the needless and tragic deaths that occur just about every day from stupid people
  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,182
    ponytd said:

    dudeman said:

    I have done those things. There are training programs available to those who are interested and capable.

    Currently, there is no requirement to get that level of training in order to carry a gun in the US. I would not oppose such requirements but realistically, I don't think that legislation would have a chance. Also, it would be nearly impossible to enforce due to the volume of privately owned guns in this country.

    I wouldn't oppose such requirements either. But I don't think you'd have to make everyone take it. Just those with licensed carry permits. I plan on taking several of these types of courses this year, but only because I have my carry permit. I wouldn't take them if I didn't have it and just owned a gun to keep in my home. However, if you just own guns, you should be required to take basic safety and handling classes. that would probably be hard to enact also, but it would cut down on the needless and tragic deaths that occur just about every day from stupid people
    Too true.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,651
    I wonder where all the guns in Chicago are coming from? My guess? Something similar is going on in Indiana. But God forbid we try to reduce illegal gun trafficking.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/03/08/nypd-undercover-operation-links-to-22-virginia-residents-to-gun-trafficking-ring/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-local:homepage/card&utm_term=.f888fdb34ddb
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited March 2017
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    I wonder where all the guns in Chicago are coming from? My guess? Something similar is going on in Indiana. But God forbid we try to reduce illegal gun trafficking.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/03/08/nypd-undercover-operation-links-to-22-virginia-residents-to-gun-trafficking-ring/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-local:homepage/card&utm_term=.f888fdb34ddb

    And this...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/railroad-thefts-and-guns-a-deadly-mix-in-chicago/2017/03/03/0846c65e-ffdb-11e6-9b78-824ccab94435_story.html
    Chicago has a crazy out of control gang banger problem.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    If you live here the politicians call it a gun problem. Gangs are not the problem to them. Fantasy world.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    If you live here the politicians call it a gun problem. Gangs are not the problem to them. Fantasy world.

    Nearly ever thing I see about Chicago gun violence references gang activity. I guess we see what we want to see.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited March 2017
    Go Beavers said:

    unsung said:

    If you live here the politicians call it a gun problem. Gangs are not the problem to them. Fantasy world.

    Nearly ever thing I see about Chicago gun violence references gang activity. I guess we see what we want to see.
    I read the headlines. Just a few quick ones.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicago-gun-violence-murder-victims-march-michigan-avenue/

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57ee90bce4b0c2407cdd92c9


    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/undeclared-war-chicago-grapples-with-historic-gun-violence/


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/06/gun-violence-is-surging-in-chicago-where-residents-look-to-escape-fear-and-show-that-everything-is-not-all-bad/?utm_term=.788db81b1216


  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,182
    edited March 2017
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    I wonder where all the guns in Chicago are coming from? My guess? Something similar is going on in Indiana. But God forbid we try to reduce illegal gun trafficking.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/03/08/nypd-undercover-operation-links-to-22-virginia-residents-to-gun-trafficking-ring/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-local:homepage/card&utm_term=.f888fdb34ddb

    Have any suggestions? Illegal gun trafficking is already illegal. Will more legislation help?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    If we make murder illegal that would help.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,651
    dudeman said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    I wonder where all the guns in Chicago are coming from? My guess? Something similar is going on in Indiana. But God forbid we try to reduce illegal gun trafficking.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/03/08/nypd-undercover-operation-links-to-22-virginia-residents-to-gun-trafficking-ring/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-local:homepage/card&utm_term=.f888fdb34ddb

    Have any suggestions? Illegal gun trafficking is already illegal. Will more legislation help?
    More ATF agents to focus on the straw purchasing. Federal legislation limiting number of guns sold in a specified time period? Better record keeping and auditing of guns from production, through distribution and sale and harsh penalties for violators. Harsher federal penalties for buying an illegal gun. Gun registry.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,651
    Cradle to grave documentation from production to destruction, cradle to grave, title and registration, much like with cars.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    We wont comply.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,651
    unsung said:

    We wont comply.

    Are you going to march with the flag or beat the drum slowly? But okay, don't comply seeing that you claim to be a responsible gun owner. But let's say there was that requirement in a law passed by duly elected representatives of the people and you decided to sell your gun to someone without legally transferring the title and sometime down the line, whether it was once removed or twenty transfers removed, a kid shoots another kid dead. You being the last gun owner of record should face a fine. And if you do it multiple times, I'd argue jail time. True Freemen don't bow or comply. I know.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    unsung said:

    We wont comply.

    Are you going to march with the flag or beat the drum slowly? But okay, don't comply seeing that you claim to be a responsible gun owner. But let's say there was that requirement in a law passed by duly elected representatives of the people and you decided to sell your gun to someone without legally transferring the title and sometime down the line, whether it was once removed or twenty transfers removed, a kid shoots another kid dead. You being the last gun owner of record should face a fine. And if you do it multiple times, I'd argue jail time. True Freemen don't bow or comply. I know.
    Donald Trump is duly elected. How are you all handling that?
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