If you're muslim you can leave, dead if not

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  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    JimmyV wrote:
    Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

    I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

    doubtful ... more like the other way around. Canada goes above and beyond to protect the human rights of all people's coming to this country ... unfortunately we do a terrible job at figuring how to better our first nations people's.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko Posts: 2,430
    It "seems like" there are more Muslim extremists than peaceful ones? Yes i guess if your whole worldview is informed by Fox News and the conservative blogosphere you probably would think that. Anyone with a modicum of world experience or critical thinking ability should be able to work out immediately such a scenario is mathematically absurd.[/quote]


    ...and this reasoning must be used, when talking about how guns are bad.[/quote]

    They can't answer that one....[/quote]



    Sure we can. The reasoning holds even if the comparison is weak.

    Are the majority of muslims fundamentalist extremists? No. Are all muslim fundamentalist extremists dangerous? Yes.

    Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all guns dangerous? Yes.[/quote]


    Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all gun owners dangerous? No.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    ajedigecko wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Sure we can. The reasoning holds even if the comparison is weak.

    Are the majority of muslims fundamentalist extremists? No. Are all muslim fundamentalist extremists dangerous? Yes.

    Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all guns dangerous? Yes.


    Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all gun owners dangerous? No.

    Your question was not about gun owners. Your question was about guns.
    ajedigecko wrote:
    ...and this reasoning must be used, when talking about how guns are bad.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    badbrains wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    not what I was refering to, his jabs and fox new comments must be all he has to back up his statement.
    and "oh my God WHITE PEOPLE" come on man really...do youthink other religions here in America or Canada are are as extreame with their violence ? and take pride in choping off heads and airing via you tube ? you need to see it for what it really is just like you do when you talk about other topics.

    Godfather.

    No, we, us Americans, just drop bombs from 2 miles up, watch it from the comfort of our home tv. and say those Muslims are evil savages! Please, you have ZERO clue about what's going on in the world and yet you called a lot of us sheep. Now that's funny.....

    As for question about infidels and Islam, dude, my favorite band has a lead singer who's an atheist. How the fuck would I go see them play over 77 times if your theory about Islam is right? Wake up GF, the world is all around you, not just on your tv screen.

    even with your sharp tone....I like your comment, but my question was about the koran not you personally.


    Godfather.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    JimmyV wrote:
    Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

    I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

    Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • lukin2006 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

    I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

    doubtful ... more like the other way around. Canada goes above and beyond to protect the human rights of all people's coming to this country ... unfortunately we do a terrible job at figuring how to better our first nations people's.

    Canada didn't go to Iraq. The US did.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • JimmyV wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

    I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

    Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

    maybe holy war has put people's ears up a bit. I just meant spreading western philosophy as the US government sees it. Democracy, Christianity, etc.

    if you don't think anyone has been spreading christian culture disguised as help look no further than Sally Struthers.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
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    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    JimmyV wrote:

    Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

    maybe holy war has put people's ears up a bit. I just meant spreading western philosophy as the US government sees it. Democracy, Christianity, etc.

    if you don't think anyone has been spreading christian culture disguised as help look no further than Sally Struthers.

    I hear you but I don't think Christianity is something the US government is trying to spread. Are there groups and individuals ala Sally Struthers who are? Absolutely. As far as the government and military go though we seem to be pretty hands off when it comes to local religions. I don't see a Federal push to spread Christianity across the globe.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I think food drives work a little better in spreading one's message versus, you know ... blowing up a mall and killing a bunch of men, women, children, and unborn children. Maybe that's just me.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Jason P wrote:
    I think food drives work a little better in spreading one's message versus, you know ... blowing up a mall and killing a bunch of men, women, children, and unborn children. Maybe that's just me.

    And 1000% positive that Muslims in the Middle East agree with you. They to don't want there mosques, schools and factories blown up. Both sides are guilty no doubt, but to sit here and pretend that ONLY MUSLIMS are terrorist is straight up BULLSHIT. I mean, we threaten countries by telling them to change leaders or else we'll bomb them. Just last week we did it with syria only we didn't attack them.(yet) that's terrorism wether you choose to believe it or NOT! Ya all Muslims are terrorists, I wonder what they would do to me if they knew I was a huge follower of atheist me vedder. Maybe I better hide my faith...... :roll:

    As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in. The funny thing is is that the diff in these 2 religions aren't that many. The 1 main diff is that Christians believe that Jesus is gods son whereas Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, a great prophet at that may I add. We share so much in common in the religion aside from the violence we also share. But what's sad is that a very few have fucked it up for all of us, Christians and Muslims. What's really sad is that some can't see it.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,958
    aerial wrote:

    Coming to a town near you if nothing is done about the Brotherhood that has infiltrated Washington...

    “When someone says that there is penetration of jihadi Islamists within society, do not dismiss it as some right-wing, xenophobic, racist rant,” warned Fatah, a Canadian journalist.
    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/337321/#3R0xjFscKTuV6mel.99
    I actually agree. No, all Muslims should not be lumped in with this kind of thing, OF COURSE. However, 20 - 30% of Muslims from the Middle East region, plus small groups scattered around the world can be considered to have extremist Islamic views, and that is nothing to sneeze at to say the least. That is a huge, massive threat that shouldn't be be underestimated in the world today. That said, apparently 90% of terrorism in the US (which includes mass shootings) is committed by non-Muslims. 10% is still nothing to sneeze at of course, but still.... perspective. Anyway, this incident in Nairobi is absolutely horrible, and yes, I think more fucking Islamic nutjobs doing the same in other places in the world is a real concern. I'm sure this incident has bolstered their confidence and captures the attention of fresh recruits, as these kinds of incidents always do. With each attack, the threat gets larger.

    And yeah, I'm just spewing out numbers without links. Sorry. I'm just repeating what I've read here and there.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,958
    badbrains wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    I think food drives work a little better in spreading one's message versus, you know ... blowing up a mall and killing a bunch of men, women, children, and unborn children. Maybe that's just me.

    And 1000% positive that Muslims in the Middle East agree with you. They to don't want there mosques, schools and factories blown up. Both sides are guilty no doubt, but to sit here and pretend that ONLY MUSLIMS are terrorist is straight up BULLSHIT. I mean, we threaten countries by telling them to change leaders or else we'll bomb them. Just last week we did it with syria only we didn't attack them.(yet) that's terrorism wether you choose to believe it or NOT! Ya all Muslims are terrorists, I wonder what they would do to me if they knew I was a huge follower of atheist me vedder. Maybe I better hide my faith...... :roll:

    As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in. The funny thing is is that the diff in these 2 religions aren't that many. The 1 main diff is that Christians believe that Jesus is gods son whereas Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, a great prophet at that may I add. We share so much in common in the religion aside from the violence we also share. But what's sad is that a very few have fucked it up for all of us, Christians and Muslims. What's really sad is that some can't see it.
    So as an Atheist, I should feel the most threatened I guess, being the infidel. Sucks to be me.
    (extremists, of which there are many, do not view it that way, obviously - not much point in talking about normal, moderate Muslims while having this conversation, really)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • badbrains wrote:
    As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in.

    This is still troubling.

    So... anyone that doesn't believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere should perish at the hands of those that do believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,958
    JimmyV wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:

    Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

    maybe holy war has put people's ears up a bit. I just meant spreading western philosophy as the US government sees it. Democracy, Christianity, etc.

    if you don't think anyone has been spreading christian culture disguised as help look no further than Sally Struthers.

    I hear you but I don't think Christianity is something the US government is trying to spread. Are there groups and individuals ala Sally Struthers who are? Absolutely. As far as the government and military go though we seem to be pretty hands off when it comes to local religions. I don't see a Federal push to spread Christianity across the globe.
    Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul wrote:
    Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.

    Christianity is not a religion. Catholicism is. Look at how often the US President mentions God in his speeches, etc, and you'll understand that the western way of life that the US is trying to manipulate others into emulating isn't just about the clothes we wear.

    and yes, forcing democracy, or any other way of life contrary to the one in place, onto another group of people, is unbelievably stupid. it's just not possible.
    Gimli 1993
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.

    Christianity is not a religion. Catholicism is. Look at how often the US President mentions God in his speeches, etc, and you'll understand that the western way of life that the US is trying to manipulate others into emulating isn't just about the clothes we wear.

    and yes, forcing democracy, or any other way of life contrary to the one in place, onto another group of people, is unbelievably stupid. it's just not possible.

    When an American president mentions god he is guilty of pandering to certain domestic constituencies, not of trying to manipulate anyone into anything. Also, of the 44 Presidents of the United States, only one has been Catholic.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I think we have to ask ourselves...
    What is more chickenshit?
    A. Taking up small arms and going into a mall and shooting up unarmed people... or...
    B. Dropping a bomb on the roof of an apartment building from a remote controlled airplane on the other side of the world?
    ...
    Give yourself a Gold Star if you said they are both chickenshit... different means... same results.
    You can't call side A. chickenshit if you are commiting the actions of side B. (and vice-versa).
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • Cosmo wrote:
    I think we have to ask ourselves...
    What is more chickenshit?
    A. Taking up small arms and going into a mall and shooting up unarmed people... or...
    B. Dropping a bomb on the roof of an apartment building from a remote controlled airplane on the other side of the world?
    ...
    Give yourself a Gold Star if you said they are both chickenshit... different means... same results.
    You can't call side A. chickenshit if you are commiting the actions of side B. (and vice-versa).

    Both are deplorable and ultimately... the same.

    I think the discussion has moved to what motivates the people in the two scenarios you have presented. It is suggested that option 'A' chickenshit is motivated by fanatical religious beliefs, while option 'B' chickenshit is motivated by obtaining resources and furthering one's prosperity.

    I think the fair question to ask is: does it really matter what the motivating factors are for human beings to kill other human beings? The deaths pile up the same regardless of what might be driving a group to kill; therefore, motivation is truly irrelevant.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • JimmyV wrote:

    When an American president mentions god he is guilty of pandering to certain domestic constituencies, not of trying to manipulate anyone into anything. Also, of the 44 Presidents of the United States, only one has been Catholic.

    I know that, I just mean that it's a larger part of the american culture than I think a lot of people are ready to admit.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
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    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    badbrains wrote:
    As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in.

    This is still troubling.

    So... anyone that doesn't believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere should perish at the hands of those that do believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere?

    Wow, I didn't say it says go and kill all infidels. Look I've stated in the past that I'm not a big follower of my religion but I do know 1 thing that stuck out to me about Islam. It says that anyone Muslim who kills another human being will be punished by god as if he has killed all of humanity. If you're really interested, go to a mosque and talk to an imam. Believe me when I say they'll welcome you in with open arms.
  • badbrains wrote:
    badbrains wrote:
    As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in.

    This is still troubling.

    So... anyone that doesn't believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere should perish at the hands of those that do believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere?

    Wow, I didn't say it says go and kill all infidels. Look I've stated in the past that I'm not a big follower of my religion but I do know 1 thing that stuck out to me about Islam. It says that anyone Muslim who kills another human being will be punished by god as if he has killed all of humanity. If you're really interested, go to a mosque and talk to an imam. Believe me when I say they'll welcome you in with open arms.

    From what I have been led to believe, the Quran does encourage violence towards 'infidels' (several times and in extreme fashion). Do I have this wrong? I hope I do. If I don't... please tell me that this isn't 'the good book' that guides Muslim people spiritually.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,958
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.

    Christianity is not a religion. Catholicism is. Look at how often the US President mentions God in his speeches, etc, and you'll understand that the western way of life that the US is trying to manipulate others into emulating isn't just about the clothes we wear.

    and yes, forcing democracy, or any other way of life contrary to the one in place, onto another group of people, is unbelievably stupid. it's just not possible.
    I didn't say one Christian church. I said Christian organizations, meaning many different christian organizations, including the Catholic Church.
    Sure the President mentions God sometimes, but he doesn't specify a Christian god (on the contrary, he often qualifies it to encompass various faiths). It simply is not true that the US government pushes Christianity in the world.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PingfahPingfah Posts: 350
    Godfather. wrote:
    not what I was refering to, his jabs and fox new comments must be all he has to back up his statement.

    I don't need anything to back up my statement. You said that out of the 25% of the entire population of the world that are Muslim, you think more than half of them are extremists. You don't even need to be half smart to work out what a ridiculous statement that is. So what's your excuse?
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Pingfah wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    not what I was refering to, his jabs and fox new comments must be all he has to back up his statement.

    I don't need anything to back up my statement. You said that out of the 25% of the entire population of the world that are Muslim, you think more than half of them are extremists. You don't even need to be half smart to work out what a ridiculous statement that is. So what's your excuse?

    re-read my post smart guy, if you need to add words to my statement you're digging for anything to make a meaningless jab but coming from you....well you know... ;)
    ummmmm my excuse ? read the paper or watch the news,any sourse you see fit will do.

    Godfather.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    The number of U.S. drone strikes appears to have dropped significantly over the past several months while terrorists have staged dozens of attacks, a trend raising concerns for the top House Republican on national intelligence.

    New statistics from the West Point Counterterroism Center show more than 60 terror attacks across the world since July 1 -- most recently, the attack at a Kenya mall last weekend in which more than 60 people were killed.

    Meanwhile, the number of U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen – the hotbed for Al Qaeda and other terror groups -- appears to have decreased significantly over roughly the same period.

    The publication The Long War Journal reports a total of 22 strikes since May in those countries.

    The apparent trend of fewer strikes amid perceptions of a weakened Al Qaeda and diminished terror threats is drawing concern from Rep. Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

    “It's not diminishing,” the Michigan Republican told Fox News on Tuesday. “There have been counterterrorism changes made by the administration that have concerned us all, things that we've been working on for a period of months that we're trying to work through that are very, very concerning. This is no time to retreat.”

    The White House has not commented on the apparent decrease in drone strikes but has referred reporters to President Obama’s May 23 speech at the National Defense University in which he discussed the county’s evolving efforts to combat the war on terror.

    The president said the United States will continue to “dismantle [terror] networks that pose a direct danger to us” but can no longer define its efforts as a “boundless global war on terror.”


    Godfather.
  • lukin2006 wrote:
    [
    Canada didn't go to Iraq. The US did.

    I am sure I seen Canadians in Iraq as well as Afghanistan. Am I missing something :?:
    96 Randall's Island II
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  • "Hugh wrote:
    would you do that if you knew that by doing so you are painting a bullseye on your family and friends? most people in the west don't even stand up for what they believe in face to face when it would result in nothing more than a shouting match or a minor scuffle, never mind if it means their heads will be cut off or their neighbours blown to bits.

    So you are advocating living in fear rather than standing up for what you believe in?
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
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    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • PingfahPingfah Posts: 350
    Godfather. wrote:
    Pingfah wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    not what I was refering to, his jabs and fox new comments must be all he has to back up his statement.

    I don't need anything to back up my statement. You said that out of the 25% of the entire population of the world that are Muslim, you think more than half of them are extremists. You don't even need to be half smart to work out what a ridiculous statement that is. So what's your excuse?

    re-read my post smart guy, if you need to add words to my statement you're digging for anything to make a meaningless jab but coming from you....well you know... ;)
    ummmmm my excuse ? read the paper or watch the news,any sourse you see fit will do.

    Godfather.


    I'm quite familiar with the contents of your post, you said "it sure seems that there are more extremists than peacefull ones."

    Pretty straightforward.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    (CNN) -- A federal judge on Wednesday sentenced an American citizen to 25 years in prison for conspiring to sell missiles, rifles and other weapons to the Taliban, the U.S. attorney's office for Manhattan announced.

    The sentence for Alwar Pouryan -- which includes 10 years of supervised release after he leaves prison -- comes the month after he and a co-defendant were found guilty following a two-week bench trial by U.S. District Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald.

    "Alwar Pouryan was an American who was all too willing to do business with the Taliban -- agreeing to provide that narco-terrorist organization with lethal, military-grade weapons that would have put countless innocent lives at risk," Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement.

    "The sentence handed down today is a just and appropriate penalty for an individual who so callously sold out his country."

    According to the Bahara's office, the 38-year-old Pouryan and his co-conspirator Oded Orbach began communicating in fall 2010 with a person they believed represented the Taliban -- but who actually worked for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

    In conversations by phone, e-mail, Skype and in person in Ghana, Ukraine and Romania, Pouryan and Orbach offered specifics about what types of arms they'd sell and for how much.

    The weapons discussed included anti-tank missiles, grenade launchers and M-16 assault rifles, not to mention ammunition. Pouryan and Orbach were told surface-to-air missiles were especially needed to protect Taliban-run heroin facilities in Afghanistan from U.S. helicopter attacks, according to the federal prosecutor's office.

    Evidence presented during the trial included e-mails from Orbach to third-party weapons suppliers, asking about obtaining some of the items.

    Feds: 7 men charged with conspiring to supply Taliban

    After hashing out price lists and other details, the two sides reached a deal: more than $25 million worth in weapons, ammunition and training, of which Pouryan and Orbach would pocket $800,000 in commission.

    Until, of course, the plot unraveled with the two American men's February 2011 arrest in Bucharest, Romania. Pouryan and Orbach were extradited more than three months later to the United States, where they stood trial.

    Five other men tied to the plot -- all of whom coordinated with the same undercover agent, some of whom worked directly with Pouryan and Orbach -- were arrested in Liberia and likewise brought to the United States.

    Four of them allegedly agreed to oversee a shipment to Benin of Taliban-owned heroin, which the Taliban could profit from after it was eventually flown to the United States, the U.S. Justice Department stated in 2011. All five consented to sell the Taliban cocaine that the Afghanistan-based Islamist group could then sell for a profit, according to the agency.

    The 55-year-old Orbach, who is currently being held in New York according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is set to be sentenced on November 1 by Judge Buchwald.




    Godfather.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    Godfather. wrote:
    (CNN) -- A federal judge on Wednesday sentenced an American citizen to 25 years in prison for conspiring to sell missiles, rifles and other weapons to the Taliban, the U.S. attorney's office for Manhattan announced.

    The sentence for Alwar Pouryan -- which includes 10 years of supervised release after he leaves prison -- comes the month after he and a co-defendant were found guilty following a two-week bench trial by U.S. District Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald.

    "Alwar Pouryan was an American who was all too willing to do business with the Taliban -- agreeing to provide that narco-terrorist organization with lethal, military-grade weapons that would have put countless innocent lives at risk," Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement.

    "The sentence handed down today is a just and appropriate penalty for an individual who so callously sold out his country."

    According to the Bahara's office, the 38-year-old Pouryan and his co-conspirator Oded Orbach began communicating in fall 2010 with a person they believed represented the Taliban -- but who actually worked for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

    In conversations by phone, e-mail, Skype and in person in Ghana, Ukraine and Romania, Pouryan and Orbach offered specifics about what types of arms they'd sell and for how much.

    The weapons discussed included anti-tank missiles, grenade launchers and M-16 assault rifles, not to mention ammunition. Pouryan and Orbach were told surface-to-air missiles were especially needed to protect Taliban-run heroin facilities in Afghanistan from U.S. helicopter attacks, according to the federal prosecutor's office.

    Evidence presented during the trial included e-mails from Orbach to third-party weapons suppliers, asking about obtaining some of the items.

    Feds: 7 men charged with conspiring to supply Taliban

    After hashing out price lists and other details, the two sides reached a deal: more than $25 million worth in weapons, ammunition and training, of which Pouryan and Orbach would pocket $800,000 in commission.

    Until, of course, the plot unraveled with the two American men's February 2011 arrest in Bucharest, Romania. Pouryan and Orbach were extradited more than three months later to the United States, where they stood trial.

    Five other men tied to the plot -- all of whom coordinated with the same undercover agent, some of whom worked directly with Pouryan and Orbach -- were arrested in Liberia and likewise brought to the United States.

    Four of them allegedly agreed to oversee a shipment to Benin of Taliban-owned heroin, which the Taliban could profit from after it was eventually flown to the United States, the U.S. Justice Department stated in 2011. All five consented to sell the Taliban cocaine that the Afghanistan-based Islamist group could then sell for a profit, according to the agency.

    The 55-year-old Orbach, who is currently being held in New York according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is set to be sentenced on November 1 by Judge Buchwald.




    Godfather.

    I'm sure somewhere someone is arguing this is just another poor innocent soul entrapped by the US government. :roll:
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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