What Are People's Motivation To Outlaw Guns In The US?

josevolution

Deja vu no this topic has been discussed to no end and with the same conclussions, there are some of us here who would like to see more regulations and ther are others that wan't no regulations at all ...

I'm sure will have the same debate in a month or two yeppie can't wait

riotgrl

I don't own a gun, will never own a gun, do not like guns. But I am ok with other people owning them. However, we have NO common sense gun laws in place and that is what I want. Why can't there be a middle ground? Sensible gun control laws that require you to register your gun and have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and a limit on certain types of weapons and ammo are reasonable expectations, in my mind.

A couple of years ago there was a big to-do in KY about carry concealed weapons (without a license mind you) to CHURCH. To protect yourself?? We have protections in this state only for gun owners and very few for the rest.

These are the gun "restrictions" in KY which are laughable BTW.

Subject/Law Long Guns Handguns Relevant Statutes Notes
State permit to purchase? No No
Firearm registration? No No
"Assault weapon" law? No No
Owner license required? No No
Concealed Carry permits issued? No Yes KRS § 237.110
Open Carry? Yes Yes May carry openly without permit/license.
State preemption of local restrictions? Yes Yes KRS § 65.870 Exception: KRS § 237.115 allows the following entities to restrict concealed carry:

Postsecondary educational institutions
Any unit of government within the state in buildings that it owns, leases, or occupies – however, concealed carry is allowed in highway rest areas, public housing, and private dwellings

NFA weapons restricted? No No
Peaceable journey laws? No No Federal rules observed.

Wilds

fife wrote:

Wilds wrote:

They don't understand the importance guns play in keeping people free, and only see the cost of that freedom on display when people do bad things with guns.

if guns kept people safe wouldn't America be the safest place in the world considering you do have the most guns?

I'm not talking about keeping people safe. I'm talking about freedom from oppression.


That is why the framers of the Constitution put that in. I don't think I'll live to see it, but some day I think Americans will need them.

Cosmo

DS1119 wrote:

You don't have to be of legal driving age to own a car. Hell, you don't even need a license to drive a car...it's illegal but only if you're caught. And yes, being in the auto industry, if an 8 year old walks into my dealership and has the means to purchase a vehicle from me he can purchase it. No different than selling the kid a candy bar.

...
To own the car, you need to be on the title of the car... don't you? To get your name on the title, don't you need a contract?
Which state do you live in where you can sign a legally binding contract with an 8 year old? Being the eternal skeptic, I need to look it up for myself. Unless you can provide that legal information.

vant0037

Cosmo wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

You don't have to be of legal driving age to own a car. Hell, you don't even need a license to drive a car...it's illegal but only if you're caught. And yes, being in the auto industry, if an 8 year old walks into my dealership and has the means to purchase a vehicle from me he can purchase it. No different than selling the kid a candy bar.

...
To own the car, you need to be on the title of the car... don't you? To get your name on the title, don't you need a contract?
Which state do you live in where you can sign a legally binding contract with an 8 year old. Being the eternal skeptic, I need to look it up for myself. Unless you can provide that legal information.

Fairly sure you can't enter into a legally binding contract with a child. I don't do contracts though, so who knows...

PJ_Soul

I don't know if I can think of anyone who I've come across who actually wants to outlaw guns in the US... just quite a few people who want the laws to be quite a bit more strict so that guns aren't legally purchased by the wrong people. I could also see the value in making certain automatic assault rifles and shit like that illegal to manufacture without a government contract or something.

Obviously something has to change about the US and guns... there is certainly a strange culture around them in some parts of the States. And people seem very weirdly interested in the idea that somehow having guns keeps them free. I wholeheartedly disagree.

I don't like guns and do wonder a LOT about people who are "into" them. Those people creep me out. But There are still some good reasons to have one (i.e. anyone living on a farm or in the country should probably own a gun, and I'm not opposed to having one for protection in the home I guess, although that leads to to a LOT of accidents apparently, so the training and ownership requirements have to be much stronger), so outlawing them would be pretty dumb. It would also be a logistical nightmare to pass such a law.

PJ_Soul

josevolution wrote:

Deja vu no this topic has been discussed to no end and with the same conclussions, there are some of us here who would like to see more regulations and ther are others that wan't no regulations at all ...

I'm sure will have the same debate in a month or two yeppie can't wait

Yeah really. As soon as I saw the comparison of gun laws and driving laws (right after posting myself), I think my eyes pretty much rolled to the back of my head. We have so been here and done this.

fear4freedom

PJ_Soul wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Deja vu no this topic has been discussed to no end and with the same conclussions, there are some of us here who would like to see more regulations and ther are others that wan't no regulations at all ...

I'm sure will have the same debate in a month or two yeppie can't wait

Yeah really. As soon as I saw the comparison of gun laws and driving laws (right after posting myself), I think my eyes pretty much rolled to the back of my head. We have so been here and done this.

Guns save lives!

PJ_Soul

fear4freedom wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Deja vu no this topic has been discussed to no end and with the same conclussions, there are some of us here who would like to see more regulations and ther are others that wan't no regulations at all ...

I'm sure will have the same debate in a month or two yeppie can't wait

Yeah really. As soon as I saw the comparison of gun laws and driving laws (right after posting myself), I think my eyes pretty much rolled to the back of my head. We have so been here and done this.

Guns save lives!

They probably save more lives than they kill (there right there is a strange sentence), but that is probably only because cops and soldiers have guns. If you took out the law enforcement factor, I'm not sure if that would be the case, but doubt it (I don't think there any truly informative stats to show that exist).

dancepartner

Gun control controls only us.

PJ_Soul

dancepartner wrote:

Gun control controls only us.

Right... that's the point. Seems a lot of people need some controlling.

fear4freedom

Not many people really want to disarm or want us disarmed! Its the radical wing of the govt. that would love to disarm us! You know....the conspiratorial division! Also, those in govt. who wish to bend to the UN!

Cosmo

fear4freedom wrote:

Not many people really want to disarm or want us disarmed! Its the radical wing of the govt. that would love to disarm us! You know....the conspiratorial division! Also, those in govt. who wish to bend to the UN!

....
Where's my tinfoil hat?

DS1119

Only because I can only find 2009 stats right now.


Death by guns in the US for 2009. 9146 (exact number)

Population in 2009 of the US. Roughly 310 million. (314 million as of 2011 but I can't find the exact number so we will go with an estimate as of 2009)

Now take out of those death by guns in 2009 the people that were lawfully killed by a citizen, police officer, and of course this number includes people who have illegally obtained a firearm . For argument sake lets call it zero. 9146 deaths by gun out of 310 million....sounds like a huge problem to me. :?

JonnyPistachio

DS1119 wrote:

Only because I can only find 2009 stats right now.


Death by guns in the US for 2009. 9146 (exact number)

Population in 2009 of the US. Roughly 310 million. (314 million as of 2011 but I can't find the exact number so we will go with an estimate as of 2009)

Now take out of those death by guns in 2009 the people that were lawfully killed by a citizen, police officer, and of course this number includes people who have illegally obtained a firearm . For argument sake lets call it zero. 9146 deaths by gun out of 310 million....sounds like a huge problem to me. :?

We get it, you don't think the deaths of nine thousand one hundre and fourteen people is a big deal. And it's also not a big deal that the US leads the entire WORLD in gun deaths and accidents. Everything is just fine and dandy. You've done a great job proving your point, now when is free AR-15 day at the ballpark?

DS1119

JonnyPistachio wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Only because I can only find 2009 stats right now.


Death by guns in the US for 2009. 9146 (exact number)

Population in 2009 of the US. Roughly 310 million. (314 million as of 2011 but I can't find the exact number so we will go with an estimate as of 2009)

Now take out of those death by guns in 2009 the people that were lawfully killed by a citizen, police officer, and of course this number includes people who have illegally obtained a firearm . For argument sake lets call it zero. 9146 deaths by gun out of 310 million....sounds like a huge problem to me. :?

We get it, you don't think the deaths of nine thousand one hundre and fourteen people is a big deal. And it's also not a big deal that the US leads the entire WORLD in gun deaths and accidents. Everything is just fine and dandy. You've done a great job proving your point, now when is free AR-15 day at the ballpark?

Its actually 9146 not 9014. My point is it's time for people, and I don't mean you in particular, to stop concentrating on the gun issue if your goal is to save lives. Worrying about the gun issue is absolutely ridiculous. Legally owned guns is such a non issue in the grand scheme of things a person's time is much better spent on bigger issues. Unfortunately this gets all of the press.


I also find it sad but ironic that there are gun deaths in contries that have totally banned firearms. Certainly couldn't be? I mean if there were no guns there should be no deaths by firearms? I'll spend a little more time looking up some numbers of illegal gun deaths in foreign countres vs the US. I'm sure the numbers will come out very close.

vant0037

DS1119 wrote:

Only because I can only find 2009 stats right now.


Death by guns in the US for 2009. 9146 (exact number)

Population in 2009 of the US. Roughly 310 million. (314 million as of 2011 but I can't find the exact number so we will go with an estimate as of 2009)

Now take out of those death by guns in 2009 the people that were lawfully killed by a citizen, police officer, and of course this number includes people who have illegally obtained a firearm . For argument sake lets call it zero. 9146 deaths by gun out of 310 million....sounds like a huge problem to me. :?

You're not using the numbers correctly here. Guns in and of themselves aren't the problem; its guns used to commit violence that are the problem. So saying "well only 9000+ people were killed with guns out of 310,000,000 living in the US" doesn't make sense.

For instance, there were 2,437,163 total deaths in the U.S. in 2009. Now, if we assume your number for gun "deaths" is right (which I don't believe it is - even the homicide numbers with guns are higher), you need to compare that number to the total number of deaths, or homicides, NOT the total number of people living.

So if we look closer and do a bit of fact-checking (FBI, CDC for instance), you can find that the 2009 numbers for firearm homicides (not deaths) are actually 11,493. That's just homicides, not accidents etc. The total number of homicides for 2009 are 16,799 (including gun related). Some 68% of homicides in the US are "firearm" homicides? Wow.

Now add in non-fatal gun violence (i.e. robberies, assaults, non-fatal shootings etc). For instance, robberies are far more likely to be committed with a gun than any other type of weapon (according FBI's UCR, 42% of robberies are committed with a gun). Seeing a pattern? A majority of murders are committed with guns. Violent crime is committed with a gun more often than "strong-arm" violence or other weapons. The numbers are showing that guns make crime easier to accomplish (hence the high proportion of crimes committed with guns).

68% of homicides in 2009 were firearm homicides. I don't understand why people are trying to rationalize this away. No one's saying take all guns. But when crime is bloodier, deadlier and more frequent because of widespread access to guns, something has to be done. Arm everyone? Arm no one? Slingshots for all? Only single-shot pistols? I have no clue, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Note: all my data came from either the FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) or the Centers for Disease Control Mortality Tables.

keeponrockin

ONLY 9000?

That's three 9/11s. Does that mean we should have 'focused our energies elseware to help save lives' because less than 3000 died that day?

fear4freedom

keeponrockin wrote:

ONLY 9000?

That's three 9/11s. Does that mean we should have 'focused our energies elseware to help save lives' because less than 3000 died that day?

Yes but it took 365 days to have that many, whereas 9/11 happened in about 3 hours or so! Big difference if you want to use that analogy!

Vitalogensia

vant0037 wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Only because I can only find 2009 stats right now.


Death by guns in the US for 2009. 9146 (exact number)

Population in 2009 of the US. Roughly 310 million. (314 million as of 2011 but I can't find the exact number so we will go with an estimate as of 2009)

Now take out of those death by guns in 2009 the people that were lawfully killed by a citizen, police officer, and of course this number includes people who have illegally obtained a firearm . For argument sake lets call it zero. 9146 deaths by gun out of 310 million....sounds like a huge problem to me. :?

You're not using the numbers correctly here. Guns in and of themselves aren't the problem; its guns used to commit violence that are the problem. So saying "well only 9000+ people were killed with guns out of 310,000,000 living in the US" doesn't make sense.

For instance, there were 2,437,163 total deaths in the U.S. in 2009. Now, if we assume your number for gun "deaths" is right (which I don't believe it is - even the homicide numbers with guns are higher), you need to compare that number to the total number of deaths, or homicides, NOT the total number of people living.

So if we look closer and do a bit of fact-checking (FBI, CDC for instance), you can find that the 2009 numbers for firearm homicides (not deaths) are actually 11,493. That's just homicides, not accidents etc. The total number of homicides for 2009 are 16,799 (including gun related). Some 68% of homicides in the US are "firearm" homicides? Wow.

Now add in non-fatal gun violence (i.e. robberies, assaults, non-fatal shootings etc). For instance, robberies are far more likely to be committed with a gun than any other type of weapon (according FBI's UCR, 42% of robberies are committed with a gun). Seeing a pattern? A majority of murders are committed with guns. Violent crime is committed with a gun more often than "strong-arm" violence or other weapons. The numbers are showing that guns make crime easier to accomplish (hence the high proportion of crimes committed with guns).

68% of homicides in 2009 were firearm homicides. I don't understand why people are trying to rationalize this away. No one's saying take all guns. But when crime is bloodier, deadlier and more frequent because of widespread access to guns, something has to be done. Arm everyone? Arm no one? Slingshots for all? Only single-shot pistols? I have no clue, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Note: all my data came from either the FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) or the Centers for Disease Control Mortality Tables.

COMMIE!