If gun control is a non issue in this country due to numbers, do you feel the same about terrorist attacks (even though guns have killed way more in this country than terrorists)?
Yes or no.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
People who want to ban or over regulate guns are doing it for safety and to save lives correct? Why not concentrate on the biggest problems first? Why pigeon hole guns? You know why people do it? Because they make it their own personal agenda. It has nothing to do with caring about other people. It has everything to do with them trying to push their wills on others. That's the reason.
Car related deaths = 34,485
Firearm related deaths = 31,374
Regulation of firearms is on par with our biggest problems. Do you suggest the mere difference of 3,111 souls out of a total of 65,859 souls does not merit focus?
People who want to ban or over regulate guns are doing it for safety and to save lives correct? Why not concentrate on the biggest problems first? Why pigeon hole guns? You know why people do it? Because they make it their own personal agenda. It has nothing to do with caring about other people. It has everything to do with them trying to push their wills on others. That's the reason.
Car related deaths = 34,485
Firearm related deaths = 31,374
Regulation of firearms is on par with our biggest problems. Do you suggest the mere difference of 3,111 souls out of a total of 65,859 souls does not merit focus?
Where are you getting firearm deaths at 31,375=4? That more than triple the correct number.
If gun control is a non issue in this country due to numbers, do you feel the same about terrorist attacks (even though guns have killed way more in this country than terrorists)?
Yes or no.
Good point, how much did those wars cost again? The cost of fighting terrorists reflects the reason they put commas in numbers. its one of those numbers thats flabbergasting on paper.
If gun control is a non issue in this country due to numbers, do you feel the same about terrorist attacks (even though guns have killed way more in this country than terrorists)?
Yes or no.
Terrorsit acts are a crime and a problem. Illegal gun ownership is a crime and a problem.
Targeting legal weapons in the US as a problem is absolutely ridiculous.
You're not a realist when you tell me that Im not concerned with saving lives and that I simply have some stupid policing agenda (which makes no sense)...You're ignorant because I just told you my agenda and you spun it into something that its not. And you're telling me what I think? That's the dumbest and most ignorant thing I've ever had anyone say to me. Ever. And its obvious you cant conceive of anything outside of what you believe everyone else is thinking.
And to boot, you just spun it into saying we think people cant have gun again. You keep reverting to mysteriously thinking we want to ban guns. Even in your newest two analogies -- Telling everyone they cant smoke? That would be like me saying nobody can have guns. You're obviously being manipulative and cant see the point of an analogy. Again, its like reducing the speed limit from 65 to 50, not completely taking away cars, drinks, cigarettes, or guns. These things I've suggested (less magazine capacity, longer wait periods, better background checks) come at no cost to the gun owner.
Edit: I forgot to add a facepalm :fp: because I've hardly ever been told what I am thinking.
People who want to ban or over regulate guns are doing it for safety and to save lives correct? Why not concentrate on the biggest problems first? Why pigeon hole guns? You know why people do it? Because they make it their own personal agenda. It has nothing to do with caring about other people. It has everything to do with them trying to push their wills on others. That's the reason.
Car related deaths = 34,485
Firearm related deaths = 31,374
Regulation of firearms is on par with our biggest problems. Do you suggest the mere difference of 3,111 souls out of a total of 65,859 souls does not merit focus?
Where are you getting firearm deaths at 31,375=4? That more than triple the correct number.
I'm getting it from reality.
The CDC. From 2009, a year your referenced but did not cite your source. Here is my source ... again:
You're not a realist when you tell me that Im not concerned with saving lives and that I simply have some stupid policing agenda (which makes no sense)...You're ignorant because I just told you my agenda and you spun it into something that its not. And you're telling me what I think? That's the dumbest and most ignorant thing I've ever had anyone say to me. Ever. And its obvious you cant conceive of anything outside of what you believe everyone else is thinking.
And to boot, you just spun it into saying we think people cant have gun again. You keep reverting to mysteriously thinking we want to ban guns. Even in your newest two analogies -- Telling everyone they cant smoke? That would be like me saying nobody can have guns. You're obviously being manipulative and cant see the point of an analogy. Again, its like reducing the speed limit from 65 to 50, not completely taking away cars, drinks, cigarettes, or guns. These things I've suggested (less magazine capacity, longer wait periods, better background checks) come at no cost to the gun owner.
Edit: I forgot to add a facepalm :fp: because I've hardly ever been told what I am thinking.
It appears your number includes suicide. That's a ridiculous number to even consider in a gun issue. If someone wants to kill themselves they will with or without a gun.
It appears your number includes suicide. That's a ridiculous number to even consider in a gun issue. If someone wants to kill themselves they will with or without a gun.
It appears your number includes suicide. That's a ridiculous number to even consider in a gun issue. If someone wants to kill themselves they will with or without a gun.
A couple at least of the most recent mass shootings this happened.
Has been said it could have been far worse if the gunmen had been armed
with something different, something that did not jam.
Could this be that the gunmen don't know the correct way to use them...
no practice to insure effectiveness ? Or is this common with these type of guns?
The motivation should be that they kill people. With the way egos are in this world and the fact that when you get dissed or put in your place that your anger boils over for some stupid reason that your ape like brain can't understand.....and you have a gun.....well let's just say we are asking for trouble.
The joke nowadays is that guys drive a big SUV to compensate for a small penis. That used to be the Cdn joke growing up for Americans and their guns.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Vehicular Deaths caused by alcohol impairment in 2009 = 10,759
DS, you are right, we need to focus on the bigger problem. When you factor in the ratio that the percentage of the population interacts with the aforementioned topics and correlate it with the body count, the bigger problem is crystal clear.
I'm glad you are committed to focusing on the biggest problems.
edit:
I forgot to cite my source on the auto statistics (US DOT)
My numbers are correct just google it. Plenty of sites confirm them. Also, you're assuming crime is done with LEGALLY obtained weapons.
People woill read the paper (especially foreigners) and are lead to believe this is some huge problem in the US. That everyone should be walking around with bullet proff vests on or something. It really is time for the bleeding hearts in this country and concentrate their efforts on something that is actually a problem.
I did google them, and found the FBI's numbers. Maybe they are wrong, but I'd be curious to know where yours are from.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1 2024-08-31 Wrigley 2 2024-09-15 Fenway 1 2024-09-27 Ohana 1 2024-09-29 Ohana 2
A couple at least of the most recent mass shootings this happened.
Has been said it could have been far worse if the gunmen had been armed
with something different, something that did not jam.
Could this be that the gunmen don't know the correct way to use them...
no practice to insure effectiveness ? Or is this common with these type of guns?
I would guess... You often hear that the shooter bought the gun a few weeks or months before the shooting. Likely there wasn't a lot of practice or experience during this time. Just from my experiences, it seems guns work smoother after being "broken in" a bit. All of the mechanical moving parts seem to loosen up a little after some use.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Only because I can only find 2009 stats right now.
Death by guns in the US for 2009. 9146 (exact number)
Population in 2009 of the US. Roughly 310 million. (314 million as of 2011 but I can't find the exact number so we will go with an estimate as of 2009)
Now take out of those death by guns in 2009 the people that were lawfully killed by a citizen, police officer, and of course this number includes people who have illegally obtained a firearm . For argument sake lets call it zero. 9146 deaths by gun out of 310 million....sounds like a huge problem to me. :?
You're not using the numbers correctly here. Guns in and of themselves aren't the problem; its guns used to commit violence that are the problem. So saying "well only 9000+ people were killed with guns out of 310,000,000 living in the US" doesn't make sense.
For instance, there were 2,437,163 total deaths in the U.S. in 2009. Now, if we assume your number for gun "deaths" is right (which I don't believe it is - even the homicide numbers with guns are higher), you need to compare that number to the total number of deaths, or homicides, NOT the total number of people living.
So if we look closer and do a bit of fact-checking (FBI, CDC for instance), you can find that the 2009 numbers for firearm homicides (not deaths) are actually 11,493. That's just homicides, not accidents etc. The total number of homicides for 2009 are 16,799 (including gun related). Some 68% of homicides in the US are "firearm" homicides? Wow.
Now add in non-fatal gun violence (i.e. robberies, assaults, non-fatal shootings etc). For instance, robberies are far more likely to be committed with a gun than any other type of weapon (according FBI's UCR, 42% of robberies are committed with a gun). Seeing a pattern? A majority of murders are committed with guns. Violent crime is committed with a gun more often than "strong-arm" violence or other weapons. The numbers are showing that guns make crime easier to accomplish (hence the high proportion of crimes committed with guns).
68% of homicides in 2009 were firearm homicides. I don't understand why people are trying to rationalize this away. No one's saying take all guns. But when crime is bloodier, deadlier and more frequent because of widespread access to guns, something has to be done. Arm everyone? Arm no one? Slingshots for all? Only single-shot pistols? I have no clue, but the numbers speak for themselves.
Note: all my data came from either the FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) or the Centers for Disease Control Mortality Tables.
My numbers are correct just google it. Plenty of sites confirm them. Also, you're assuming crime is done with LEGALLY obtained weapons.
People woill read the paper (especially foreigners) and are lead to believe this is some huge problem in the US. That everyone should be walking around with bullet proff vests on or something. It really is time for the bleeding hearts in this country and concentrate their efforts on something that is actually a problem.
Most illegal weapons were legal before they weren't.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
My numbers are correct just google it. Plenty of sites confirm them. Also, you're assuming crime is done with LEGALLY obtained weapons.
People woill read the paper (especially foreigners) and are lead to believe this is some huge problem in the US. That everyone should be walking around with bullet proff vests on or something. It really is time for the bleeding hearts in this country and concentrate their efforts on something that is actually a problem.
I did google them, and found the FBI's numbers. Maybe they are wrong, but I'd be curious to know where yours are from.
I'm gonna go with the numbers that the FBI posted!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Vehicular Deaths caused by alcohol impairment in 2009 = 10,759
DS, you are right, we need to focus on the bigger problem. When you factor in the ratio that the percentage of the population interacts with the aforementioned topics and correlate it with the body count, the bigger problem is crystal clear.
I'm glad you are committed to focusing on the biggest problems.
edit:
I forgot to cite my source on the auto statistics (US DOT)
Now take out of the gun homicides the number of people killed by illegal firearms vs legal firearms. This is the problem that comes up. People think that regulating legal guns will stop the issue with guns. Couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. It's not a legal gun problem...it's an illegal gun problem.
My numbers are correct just google it. Plenty of sites confirm them. Also, you're assuming crime is done with LEGALLY obtained weapons.
People woill read the paper (especially foreigners) and are lead to believe this is some huge problem in the US. That everyone should be walking around with bullet proff vests on or something. It really is time for the bleeding hearts in this country and concentrate their efforts on something that is actually a problem.
I did google them, and found the FBI's numbers. Maybe they are wrong, but I'd be curious to know where yours are from.
I'm gonna go with the numbers that the FBI posted!
Most illegal weapons were legal before they weren't.
Could not be further from the truth! Holy shit! :fp:
And to elaborate on this further. Even if your statement is true, even though it couldn't be further from it, let's say every illegal weapon in the US was once a legally owned weapon. Shouldn't we be concentrating on the criminals stealing/acquiring these weapons instead of infringing on the law abiding citizen's right to own them?
It appears your number includes suicide. That's a ridiculous number to even consider in a gun issue. If someone wants to kill themselves they will with or without a gun.
Most illegal weapons were legal before they weren't.
Could not be further from the truth! Holy shit! :fp:
And to elaborate on this further. Even if your statement is true, even though it couldn't be further from it, let's say every illegal weapon in the US was once a legally owned weapon. Shouldn't we be concentrating on the criminals stealing/acquiring these weapons instead of infringing on the law abiding citizen's right to own them?
Why do you say it couldn't be farther from the truth?? Where do you think most illegal guns come from? Straight from the manufacturer or retailer to the criminal? Over the Mexican border?
And a lot of the time they hit the illegal market because the legal owners sell them, not only because they are stolen.
Also, there are tons of gun deaths caused by legal weapons. Most of the mass shootings are committed using legally owned weapons, for instance, and almost all accidental gun deaths are from legally owned guns.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
A couple at least of the most recent mass shootings this happened.
Has been said it could have been far worse if the gunmen had been armed
with something different, something that did not jam.
Could this be that the gunmen don't know the correct way to use them...
no practice to insure effectiveness ? Or is this common with these type of guns?
I would guess... You often hear that the shooter bought the gun a few weeks or months before the shooting. Likely there wasn't a lot of practice or experience during this time. Just from my experiences, it seems guns work smoother after being "broken in" a bit. All of the mechanical moving parts seem to loosen up a little after some use.
I try to imagine being in this mindset, planning, purchasing, preparing.
What has brought the person to this point. Disappointment, frustration, anger, hate....
none of the above. Very different then the spur of the moment action reaction or even
crime for profit or out of need.
I guess it's a good thing the guns are likely to jam. The weapon of choice could actually
be much more deadly while looking and seeming more innocent,
if there is such a thing with a gun.
When someone gets to this point, I think, a weapon will be found and used.
Next we will hear about hand grenades and bombs I suppose.
The fact of life is none of us know how we will die or when. Just try to be the one
who never takes another life with you.
I'd be willing to bet most gun accidents concerning children were with legally owned firearms, of which there are more than enough every year.
I will freely admit that illegally owner firearms are a bigger problem (obviously), but I disagree that legally owned firearms are not an issue when I see children accidentally shot on a regular basis and mass shootings every few months with legally owned guns. Now this is not an argument -- this is purely opinion. I know DS, you dont think its a problem unless something like 30,000 kids are killed with legally owned guns, but I think its a problem if its one kid a month, and its ongoing. Thats just how I feel, its not an agenda, and its not meant for anyone to agree with...I just see it as a problem, plain and simple.
There have been many studies that suggest that guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in accidents or crimes than to be used in self-defense.
Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source: Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Now take out of the gun homicides the number of people killed by illegal firearms vs legal firearms. This is the problem that comes up. People think that regulating legal guns will stop the issue with guns. Couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. It's not a legal gun problem...it's an illegal gun problem.
Where do the illegal guns come from? Are they crossing the border in the night and being picked up at comfort stations?
Or are they filtering through a local industry that lacks regulation?
Comments
Yes or no.
Firearm related deaths = 31,374
Regulation of firearms is on par with our biggest problems. Do you suggest the mere difference of 3,111 souls out of a total of 65,859 souls does not merit focus?
Where are you getting firearm deaths at 31,375=4? That more than triple the correct number.
Good point, how much did those wars cost again? The cost of fighting terrorists reflects the reason they put commas in numbers. its one of those numbers thats flabbergasting on paper.
Terrorsit acts are a crime and a problem. Illegal gun ownership is a crime and a problem.
Targeting legal weapons in the US as a problem is absolutely ridiculous.
It's an agenda.
The CDC. From 2009, a year your referenced but did not cite your source. Here is my source ... again:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm
It appears your number includes suicide. That's a ridiculous number to even consider in a gun issue. If someone wants to kill themselves they will with or without a gun.
Here's the real numbers.
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
If you want to get technical on the cause of death, let me know how many of the auto deaths were intentional or caused by impaired driving.
Then we can see which is the bigger problem and focus on it, just like you have preached.
:geek:
People determined to take their own lives is not a gun issue. They will do it with or without a gun.
A couple at least of the most recent mass shootings this happened.
Has been said it could have been far worse if the gunmen had been armed
with something different, something that did not jam.
Could this be that the gunmen don't know the correct way to use them...
no practice to insure effectiveness ? Or is this common with these type of guns?
The joke nowadays is that guys drive a big SUV to compensate for a small penis. That used to be the Cdn joke growing up for Americans and their guns.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Gun Homicides in 2009 = 9,146
Vehicular Deaths caused by alcohol impairment in 2009 = 10,759
DS, you are right, we need to focus on the bigger problem. When you factor in the ratio that the percentage of the population interacts with the aforementioned topics and correlate it with the body count, the bigger problem is crystal clear.
I'm glad you are committed to focusing on the biggest problems.
edit:
I forgot to cite my source on the auto statistics (US DOT)
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811554.pdf
I did google them, and found the FBI's numbers. Maybe they are wrong, but I'd be curious to know where yours are from.
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2024-08-31 Wrigley 2
2024-09-15 Fenway 1
2024-09-27 Ohana 1
2024-09-29 Ohana 2
I would guess... You often hear that the shooter bought the gun a few weeks or months before the shooting. Likely there wasn't a lot of practice or experience during this time. Just from my experiences, it seems guns work smoother after being "broken in" a bit. All of the mechanical moving parts seem to loosen up a little after some use.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Now take out of the gun homicides the number of people killed by illegal firearms vs legal firearms. This is the problem that comes up. People think that regulating legal guns will stop the issue with guns. Couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. It's not a legal gun problem...it's an illegal gun problem.
Suicides are not a gun issue.
Could not be further from the truth! Holy shit! :fp:
And to elaborate on this further. Even if your statement is true, even though it couldn't be further from it, let's say every illegal weapon in the US was once a legally owned weapon. Shouldn't we be concentrating on the criminals stealing/acquiring these weapons instead of infringing on the law abiding citizen's right to own them?
And a lot of the time they hit the illegal market because the legal owners sell them, not only because they are stolen.
Also, there are tons of gun deaths caused by legal weapons. Most of the mass shootings are committed using legally owned weapons, for instance, and almost all accidental gun deaths are from legally owned guns.
What has brought the person to this point. Disappointment, frustration, anger, hate....
none of the above. Very different then the spur of the moment action reaction or even
crime for profit or out of need.
I guess it's a good thing the guns are likely to jam. The weapon of choice could actually
be much more deadly while looking and seeming more innocent,
if there is such a thing with a gun.
When someone gets to this point, I think, a weapon will be found and used.
Next we will hear about hand grenades and bombs I suppose.
The fact of life is none of us know how we will die or when. Just try to be the one
who never takes another life with you.
I will freely admit that illegally owner firearms are a bigger problem (obviously), but I disagree that legally owned firearms are not an issue when I see children accidentally shot on a regular basis and mass shootings every few months with legally owned guns. Now this is not an argument -- this is purely opinion. I know DS, you dont think its a problem unless something like 30,000 kids are killed with legally owned guns, but I think its a problem if its one kid a month, and its ongoing. Thats just how I feel, its not an agenda, and its not meant for anyone to agree with...I just see it as a problem, plain and simple.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182
Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Source: Center for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Or are they filtering through a local industry that lacks regulation?
:think:
Why don't the re-sellers save gas money and buy the guns in Illinois instead of traveling across state borders?
:think: