Obviously no candidates fits our wants and needs 100%. Clearly, by focusing on this *one* issue, you are making up your mind without even knowing how the other candidate feels, nor anything about everything else Tester stands for. It's refusing to see the big picture, not making informed choices, and jumping to conclusions. Of all the great things that Tester is about, (and there are, yet you refuse to educate yourself on them), I know that letting go of the idea of a perfect person, let alone politician, is very necessary. And he's already won, so you're wasting precious energy being angry about something you can't control. Take a deep breath and move on.
If your only other option was a Karl Rove backed republican, would you really, Polaris?
well ... you know i would most likely not vote for a republican ... if all the candidates shared his position on this - then i guess i would have to spoil my ballot ... everyone has their key issues ... this would be big enough for me to not support him ...
If your only other option was a Karl Rove backed republican, would you really, Polaris?
well ... you know i would most likely not vote for a republican ... if all the candidates shared his position on this - then i guess i would have to spoil my ballot ... everyone has their key issues ... this would be big enough for me to not support him ...
I don't like it either. But clearly a special interest group bought him out. That's what's disgusting about politicians. This is what they do, so the best way to go is weigh all the issues with all the candidates and decide then what's best. All the issues Tester supports are issues I consider more important than this (women's rights, etc, health care, education, corporations etc.). People and their welfare means more to me.
If your only other option was a Karl Rove backed republican, would you really, Polaris?
well ... you know i would most likely not vote for a republican ... if all the candidates shared his position on this - then i guess i would have to spoil my ballot ... everyone has their key issues ... this would be big enough for me to not support him ...
There likely would have been a green party candidate that would have been opposed to it ... don't they allow write in's ... Polaris for US Congress.
I'm even more shocked that these hunts are allowed in Canada ... shame on us.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
If your only other option was a Karl Rove backed republican, would you really, Polaris?
well ... you know i would most likely not vote for a republican ... if all the candidates shared his position on this - then i guess i would have to spoil my ballot ... everyone has their key issues ... this would be big enough for me to not support him ...
I don't like it either. But clearly a special interest group bought him out. That's what's disgusting about politicians. This is what they do, so the best way to go is weigh all the issues with all the candidates and decide then what's best. All the issues Tester supports are issues I consider more important than this (women's rights, etc, health care, education, corporations etc.). People and their welfare means more to me.
I wouldn't support him ... hunting for food is one thing ... hunting to put polar bear head on wall is gross, disgusting and totally unnecessary...and if this one issue alone would cost him his seat in Montana...then how screwy is that.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't like it either. But clearly a special interest group bought him out. That's what's disgusting about politicians. This is what they do, so the best way to go is weigh all the issues with all the candidates and decide then what's best. All the issues Tester supports are issues I consider more important than this (women's rights, etc, health care, education, corporations etc.). People and their welfare means more to me.
i hear ya ... i have no issue whatsoever with people who voted for him based on their own set of issues ... this is just one of those for me that is unacceptable ... if anything ... if he indeed did get bought out - it would be worse ...
What makes sense in Montana might not make sense in Maryland or Florida. This is why folks advocate for smaller role for the Federal Government, get more power to set agendas down to the states, counties and cities to decide.
What makes sense for folks living five miles away from their nearest neighbor might not make sense to folks who can just knock on a wall.
But, but, but ... they might elect some stupid hick that ruins it for the good folk of their county? Better that's contained at a local level than impact us all at the country-wide level.
But it's not black-n-white, just shades of gray ... some things of course need a baseline.
We get it you are gay, does everything you talk about have to have that common denominator. Oh yeah I am not a homophobic, I have plenty of friends who are gay, they just do not bring it up in every conversation we have.
I don't think anyone has suggested you were homophobic. I sure didn't.
If you don't recognize a Brokeback Mountain joke... well, that's what that was. I was going to make a sheep-screwing shepherd joke and thought it would be in poor taste.
My point was that while I don't support trophy hunting, the people who voted for him in Montana ignored the "R" or "D" next to his name, saw that he was a moderate-to-right leaning Democrat and voted for him based on his positions.
Not sure I would have voted for him myself, but I also wouldn't live in Montana.
WASHINGTON— The U.S. Senate is poised to vote on a controversial bill that would bar the Environmental Protection Agency from stepping in to protect hundreds of wildlife species that are killed or poisoned each year by lead hunting ammunition and lead fishing tackle. The provision is part of a bill, S. 3525, sponsored by Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.).
“It’s a national disgrace that eagles, condors, loons and other wildlife are needlessly killed every year because of toxic lead that’s left in the wild,” said Bill Snape, senior counsel at the Center for Biological Diversity. “Senator Tester’s bill would ensure that these killings continue even though it’s been shown that these wildlife deaths can be prevented with little to no impact on America’s hunters and anglers.”
Up to 20 million birds die each year from lead poisoning after consuming spent lead shot and bullet fragments left in the wild from hunting. In the United States, 3,000 tons of lead are shot into the environment each year, while another 80,000 tons are released at shooting ranges.
Earlier this year, the Center and more than 100 groups from 35 states petitioned the EPA to regulate toxic lead ammunition to protect public health and prevent the widespread poisoning of wildlife. The petition was filed by groups representing conservationists, birders, hunters, zoologists, scientists, American Indians, wildlife rehabilitators and veterinarians. The bill before the Senate would keep the EPA from taking action on lead ammunition and fishing tackle.
“Senator Tester’s bill is meant to appeal to sportsmen, but there’s nothing sporting about using lead ammunition that unintentionally kills so many other animals,” Snape said. “The EPA can finally put an end to this national tragedy, but not if Congress gets in the way.”
Spent lead from hunting and fishing tackle is a widespread killer of bald and golden eagles, trumpeter swans, endangered California condors and more than 75 other species. Nearly 500 scientific papers have documented the dangers to wildlife from lead exposure.
There are many commercially available alternatives to lead rifle bullets, shotgun pellets, fishing weights and lures. More than a dozen manufacturers market hundreds of varieties and calibers of nonlead bullets and shot made of steel, copper and alloys of other metals, with satisfactory to superior ballistics. Nonlead bullets and fishing tackle are readily available in all 50 states. Hunters and anglers in states and areas that have lead restrictions or have already banned lead have made successful transitions to hunting with nontoxic bullets and fishing with nontoxic tackle.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada is asking members to address a new sportsmen's bill put forward by incumbent Jon Tester (D-Mont.). The suggestion to address Tester's bill came on the last day of the Senate session before elections and sparked controversy between the two parties. Some Senate Republicans referred to Tester's "polar bear bill" as an election tactic, dismissing it.
The Associated Press reports that Tester's bill came in reaction to 2008 ban on polar bear trophies. The AP said a group of hunters, including two from Montana, were barred from importing "trophy" kills across the border from Canada after the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service listed the bears as a "threatened species" while the hunters were in the field.
Tester claims his bill would serve only a few hunters, allowing them to bring trophies held in cold storage back to the United States. But Michael Markarian, chief program and policy officer for The Humane Society of the United States, disagreed, saying, "The cumulative impacts of incentivizing this killing over and over again are contrary to American conservation law."
SALT LAKE CITY — She was an alpha female known as 832F to scientists, but lovingly called " '06" by local tourists, after the year of her birth. She was the most famous wolf in all of Yellowstone National Park, and led the Lamar Canyon wolf pack.
832F wandered outside of the boundaries of Yellowstone National Park Thursday, where she was shot and killed — legally — by hunters in Wyoming. That was made possible by recently-passed federal and state regulations that allow the killing of wolves as game.
The changes have made headlines and caused controversy, with hunters and ranchers treating wolves as a threat to be eliminated, while conservationists and scientists are alarmed by the hunts that come so soon after wolvers were re-introduced into the area in 1995.
832F is so named because she was a research wolf. Scientists had fastened a $4,000 collar to her neck with GPS tracking technology that allowed them to track her movements and better understand both her habits and the life of the pack.
832F was also popular with tourists because of her immense size and ability as a hunter. Park wildlife experts said that she could take down animals on her own, according to the New York Times. Wolf advocates said that she was a devoted mother to her cubs as well as being leader of a relatively large pack.
She's the latest in a series of collared research wolves shot by hunters, with four being killed in the last few weeks.
Marc Cooke with the group Wolves of the Rockies alleged hunters were targeting collared animals, either for bragging rights or out of spite for wolf restoration in the Northern Rockies. Shooting a collared wolf is not illegal if it's done within state hunting regulations.
"The proportion of collared wolves is too high to believe this is not being done deliberately," Cooke said. "It's wrong, and the world needs to know this."
anyone who shoots a wolf should be executed themselves. straight up shot dead & their stupid ass remains fed to buzzards & their ignorant ass head strung up a tree someplace.
If you kill an animal you have no plans on eating, you're a piece of shit.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,947
edited December 2012
I really have to find more time to look into this. I just received a card from Richard Manning (an author I've mentioned several times) who thanked me for supporting his work-- he is an avid and well respected conservationist/writer-- as well as thanking me for attending the Missoula show which, he said, helped to get Jon Tester re-elected. Richard Manning has been a long time proponent of re-introducing large predictors- including bears and wolves- to the American grasslands which comprise large portions of Montana. Also, Mannings' wife, Tracy Stone-Manning worked with Tester's election committee.
So all of the complaints about Pearl Jam supporting Jon Tester supporting the killing of wolves just doesn't add up. I'll try to find time to gather more information and report back here but those who are dissing PJ and John Tester might want to restrain that criticism until we have a better picture here. Any info others can provide here would be appreciated- I'm not in great health right now and it's a very busy time of year for my business.
And yes, I'm open to being proven wrong about my beliefs here, but I really do think Jon Tester and Pearl Jam have a great deal of respect and concern for wildlife and conservation.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
And yes, I'm open to being proven wrong about my beliefs here, but I really do think John Tester and Pearl Jam have a great deal of respect and concern for wildlife and conservation.
I think so too - about PJ, anyway - but I don't know much about Tester.
And, I have to agree with keeponrockin's comment up there.
I really have to find more time to look into this.
First I'd start with getting his name right than this is a pretty good place to find info on this issue.
I can hardly believe the numbers. 605 wolves have been slaughtered in the combined hunts since August 30, 2012. In 102 days or a little over three months, hundreds of wolves have been wiped out. Images of their mangled, bloodied bodies litter FB and hunting forums. The smiling, grinning wolf killers are gloating in their blood bath. AND this is only December. Montana opens wolf trapping season on December 15. The Colville Tribes in Washington state are hunting wolves on their reservation.
Seven collared wolves from Yellowstone National Park have been killed.
Killed late October: 824M of the Mollies pack.
Early November: 829F of the Blacktail Plateau pack.
November 10th in WY: 754M of the Lamar Canyon pack.
November 13th in MT: 823F of the Junction Butte pack (sole collar).
Date/location unknown: 762M and 763F of the Madison pack.
Date unknown, killed in WY: 793(?) of the Snake River pack.
December 6th: 832F. Iconic Alpha Female of the Lamar Canyon pack.
Wolves are being gut shot, tortured, trapped, strangled in choking snares, arrowed and god only knows what they’re doing to them in Wyoming’s predator zone, any method of killing is allowed, including poison. Wisconsin wants to hunt wolves with dogs. A temporary injunction stopped it for now BUT the issue is being revisited on December 20, 2012.
This is the state of “wolf management” as of December 9, 2012.
We can thank the Obama administration and its Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid D-N, for allowing the Northern Rockies wolf delisting rider to remain in the budget bill, Senator Jon Tester D-MT, for slipping the wolf rider into the Senate budget bill and the majority of Senate Democrats who voted for it, USFWS for delisting wolves in Wyoming and the Great Lakes and the state game agencies of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Wisconsin and Minnesota for allowing the hunts to take place. Everyone who is responsible for the massacre should hang their heads in shame but it’s fairly obvious they’re not ashamed. This will continue until wolf advocates come together and put pressure on the politicians and feds to stop to this insanity. Wolves must be relisted!!
Comments
would be enough for me to not vote for tester ...
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If your only other option was a Karl Rove backed republican, would you really, Polaris?
This is kinda what I am thinking too. Was there a better alternative even on this issue alone? (Maybe there was, I don't really know.)
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
It's a disgrace and shouldn't be dismissed as a one off issue. :fp:
well ... you know i would most likely not vote for a republican ... if all the candidates shared his position on this - then i guess i would have to spoil my ballot ... everyone has their key issues ... this would be big enough for me to not support him ...
I don't like it either. But clearly a special interest group bought him out. That's what's disgusting about politicians. This is what they do, so the best way to go is weigh all the issues with all the candidates and decide then what's best. All the issues Tester supports are issues I consider more important than this (women's rights, etc, health care, education, corporations etc.). People and their welfare means more to me.
There likely would have been a green party candidate that would have been opposed to it ... don't they allow write in's ... Polaris for US Congress.
I'm even more shocked that these hunts are allowed in Canada ... shame on us.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
see you didn't do your research ... :nono: not good :nono:
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I wouldn't support him ... hunting for food is one thing ... hunting to put polar bear head on wall is gross, disgusting and totally unnecessary...and if this one issue alone would cost him his seat in Montana...then how screwy is that.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
i hear ya ... i have no issue whatsoever with people who voted for him based on their own set of issues ... this is just one of those for me that is unacceptable ... if anything ... if he indeed did get bought out - it would be worse ...
(And he screwed me over!!!)
What makes sense for folks living five miles away from their nearest neighbor might not make sense to folks who can just knock on a wall.
But, but, but ... they might elect some stupid hick that ruins it for the good folk of their county? Better that's contained at a local level than impact us all at the country-wide level.
But it's not black-n-white, just shades of gray ... some things of course need a baseline.
I knew what it was for. Have a few good pictures of Tester leaving early too.
Someone said he went up to the VIP area.
Why do you have pictures of Tester leaving early? Gonna save those to show for the grandkids?
I don't think anyone has suggested you were homophobic. I sure didn't.
If you don't recognize a Brokeback Mountain joke... well, that's what that was. I was going to make a sheep-screwing shepherd joke and thought it would be in poor taste.
My point was that while I don't support trophy hunting, the people who voted for him in Montana ignored the "R" or "D" next to his name, saw that he was a moderate-to-right leaning Democrat and voted for him based on his positions.
Not sure I would have voted for him myself, but I also wouldn't live in Montana.
where is raplh nader!
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
posting.php?mode=quote&f=13&p=4747665
Possibly.
SALT LAKE CITY — She was an alpha female known as 832F to scientists, but lovingly called " '06" by local tourists, after the year of her birth. She was the most famous wolf in all of Yellowstone National Park, and led the Lamar Canyon wolf pack.
832F wandered outside of the boundaries of Yellowstone National Park Thursday, where she was shot and killed — legally — by hunters in Wyoming. That was made possible by recently-passed federal and state regulations that allow the killing of wolves as game.
The changes have made headlines and caused controversy, with hunters and ranchers treating wolves as a threat to be eliminated, while conservationists and scientists are alarmed by the hunts that come so soon after wolvers were re-introduced into the area in 1995.
832F is so named because she was a research wolf. Scientists had fastened a $4,000 collar to her neck with GPS tracking technology that allowed them to track her movements and better understand both her habits and the life of the pack.
832F was also popular with tourists because of her immense size and ability as a hunter. Park wildlife experts said that she could take down animals on her own, according to the New York Times. Wolf advocates said that she was a devoted mother to her cubs as well as being leader of a relatively large pack.
She's the latest in a series of collared research wolves shot by hunters, with four being killed in the last few weeks.
Marc Cooke with the group Wolves of the Rockies alleged hunters were targeting collared animals, either for bragging rights or out of spite for wolf restoration in the Northern Rockies. Shooting a collared wolf is not illegal if it's done within state hunting regulations.
"The proportion of collared wolves is too high to believe this is not being done deliberately," Cooke said. "It's wrong, and the world needs to know this."
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23326483&nid=1012
Thanks to Tester someone has another trophy to put up on his wall.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
So all of the complaints about Pearl Jam supporting Jon Tester supporting the killing of wolves just doesn't add up. I'll try to find time to gather more information and report back here but those who are dissing PJ and John Tester might want to restrain that criticism until we have a better picture here. Any info others can provide here would be appreciated- I'm not in great health right now and it's a very busy time of year for my business.
And yes, I'm open to being proven wrong about my beliefs here, but I really do think Jon Tester and Pearl Jam have a great deal of respect and concern for wildlife and conservation.
And, I have to agree with keeponrockin's comment up there.
And, I hope your health issues ease up, Brian!
First I'd start with getting his name right
I can hardly believe the numbers. 605 wolves have been slaughtered in the combined hunts since August 30, 2012. In 102 days or a little over three months, hundreds of wolves have been wiped out. Images of their mangled, bloodied bodies litter FB and hunting forums. The smiling, grinning wolf killers are gloating in their blood bath. AND this is only December. Montana opens wolf trapping season on December 15. The Colville Tribes in Washington state are hunting wolves on their reservation.
Seven collared wolves from Yellowstone National Park have been killed.
Killed late October: 824M of the Mollies pack.
Early November: 829F of the Blacktail Plateau pack.
November 10th in WY: 754M of the Lamar Canyon pack.
November 13th in MT: 823F of the Junction Butte pack (sole collar).
Date/location unknown: 762M and 763F of the Madison pack.
Date unknown, killed in WY: 793(?) of the Snake River pack.
December 6th: 832F. Iconic Alpha Female of the Lamar Canyon pack.
Wolves are being gut shot, tortured, trapped, strangled in choking snares, arrowed and god only knows what they’re doing to them in Wyoming’s predator zone, any method of killing is allowed, including poison. Wisconsin wants to hunt wolves with dogs. A temporary injunction stopped it for now BUT the issue is being revisited on December 20, 2012.
This is the state of “wolf management” as of December 9, 2012.
We can thank the Obama administration and its Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid D-N, for allowing the Northern Rockies wolf delisting rider to remain in the budget bill, Senator Jon Tester D-MT, for slipping the wolf rider into the Senate budget bill and the majority of Senate Democrats who voted for it, USFWS for delisting wolves in Wyoming and the Great Lakes and the state game agencies of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Wisconsin and Minnesota for allowing the hunts to take place. Everyone who is responsible for the massacre should hang their heads in shame but it’s fairly obvious they’re not ashamed. This will continue until wolf advocates come together and put pressure on the politicians and feds to stop to this insanity. Wolves must be relisted!!
http://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/