man shoots his 15yr old son in 'burglary'

goingtoverona

So as soon as we can figure out how to drive our guns to work, then we can tolerate the violence that comes with them. I guess that's the difference between us. For me, death is death, whether your getting mangled in a car or having your head blown off. Both are equally repugnant to me. It's easy for people who don't like, own or use guns to say get rid of them, which is why I point out the car deaths. It just seems so hypocritical to me. Also, many people shoot guns for fun, in competitions and oh the olympics. Those people aren't killing anyone, so there's one use other than killing. I would say self defense is an obvious use, but that's violence against another human being.

catefrances

goingtoverona wrote:

So as soon as we can figure out how to drive our guns to work, then we can tolerate the violence that comes with them. I guess that's the difference between us. For me, death is death, whether your getting mangled in a car or having your head blown off. Both are equally repugnant to me. It's easy for people who don't like, own or use guns to say get rid of them, which is why I point out the car deaths. It just seems so hypocritical to me. Also, many people shoot guns for fun, in competitions and oh the olympics. Those people aren't killing anyone, so there's one use other than killing. I would say self defense is an obvious use, but that's violence against another human being.

self defence is fine but id prefer the other person not end up dead.

_

goingtoverona wrote:

So as soon as we can figure out how to drive our guns to work, then we can tolerate the violence that comes with them. I guess that's the difference between us. For me, death is death, whether your getting mangled in a car or having your head blown off. Both are equally repugnant to me. It's easy for people who don't like, own or use guns to say get rid of them, which is why I point out the car deaths. It just seems so hypocritical to me. Also, many people shoot guns for fun, in competitions and oh the olympics. Those people aren't killing anyone, so there's one use other than killing. I would say self defense is an obvious use, but that's violence against another human being.

For me, there is a difference between intentially killing someone (e.g. with a gun) and unintentionally killing someone (e.g. with a car). There is a difference in how I view an object based on its purpose. Cars were not created specifically to murder people. Guns were. The fact that an object whose purpose is to murder people - lots of people at once - is also sometimes used for sport doesn't change its purpose. Guns and cars are apples and oranges, so there's no hypocisy there.

catefrances

_ wrote:

goingtoverona wrote:

So as soon as we can figure out how to drive our guns to work, then we can tolerate the violence that comes with them. I guess that's the difference between us. For me, death is death, whether your getting mangled in a car or having your head blown off. Both are equally repugnant to me. It's easy for people who don't like, own or use guns to say get rid of them, which is why I point out the car deaths. It just seems so hypocritical to me. Also, many people shoot guns for fun, in competitions and oh the olympics. Those people aren't killing anyone, so there's one use other than killing. I would say self defense is an obvious use, but that's violence against another human being.

For me, there is a difference between intentially killing someone (e.g. with a gun) and unintentionally killing someone (e.g. with a car). There is a difference in how I view an object based on its purpose. Cars were not created specifically to murder people. Guns were. The fact that an object whose purpose is to murder people - lots of people at once - is also sometimes used for sport doesn't change its purpose. Guns and cars are apples and oranges, so there's no hypocisy there.

cause after alll cars are used for sport too.... if you can call nascar, F1 and V8 supercars a sport.

dunkman

pandora wrote:

1. Nope home invasion is exactly what it should be called,

2. I think you might want to take some time to read what people are experiencing.
You appear clueless on the subject of this type of violence.
And then after perhaps care so much about others as to understand why they
want to protect themselves.

3. But you said it yourself, there in your country the size of our Maine, :fp:
you don't give a rats ass.... so be it.

1. bit extreme but ok.

2. hmmmm.. perhaps you should google "murder capital of Europe" and you'll see what I experience. Especially concerning violence.

3. hahahaha the elitist and arrogant view of the average Joes-Schmoe of America.... bigger is better folks! what the fuck has size to do with it? is this a showing of cock thread? for your information Scotland has 5 times the population of Maine so stick that in your rifle and smoke it.

dunkman

_ wrote:

dunkman wrote:

you dont know anything about me.

plus "home invasion" is a bit alarmist... makes it sound like coke-fuelled amateur SWAT teams are trying to get into my house and steal my awesome collection of 1970's french erotica.... it also makes me think that you are worried that every burglar wants to come in a kill and rape everything in the house.... why be so scared?

if i heard a guy downstairs in my house lifting my stereo i'd go down and probably try and scare them off... what i wouldnt want to do is go down and shoot the first thing i saw moving... all for a stereo? not sure i'd want that on my conscience.

but then where i live, i'm pretty certain that a burglar doesnt have a gun... very simple reasons for this.

1.we banned handguns 2.they cost a holy fucking fortune on the black market 3.if they could afford a gun then they wouldnt be robbing me... a big bank maybe, but not me. 4.we dont give away guns when we open up a bank account or buy a 3 litre bottle of Tropicana.

so yes, i'm bored of the whole "but this guy had a gun so he stopped a robbery" nonsense.... I know of people here in the UK who stopped a robbery by phoning the police and/or confronting the people in the house...

to utilise a fairly common refrain ... . a gun doesnt stop robberies, people do.

but yeah, i'm also bored of the US attitude towards their little guns... keep killing each other.... i simply dont care. seriously... to use the words of Scrooge " If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population."

plus its only the extremely dumb ones who are getting killed.... Darwinism and all that.

I totally agree with you & value your perspective on this issue. But, in answer to your question, "Why so scared?"... Please keep in mind that women are much more vulnerable than men & much worse things happen to us at the hands of intruders, who are not as easily scared off by us as they are by you. If I heard a strange guy in my house, I'd be so scared that I probably would shoot the first thing I saw moving. Of course, that's why I got rid of my gun.

i dont know about that my friend.... we have some extremely burly gay guys in Scotland and I have one extremely cute set of buns... :thumbup: :thumbup:

pandora

dunkman wrote:

pandora wrote:

1. Nope home invasion is exactly what it should be called,

2. I think you might want to take some time to read what people are experiencing.
You appear clueless on the subject of this type of violence.
And then after perhaps care so much about others as to understand why they
want to protect themselves.

3. But you said it yourself, there in your country the size of our Maine, :fp:
you don't give a rats ass.... so be it.

1. bit extreme but ok.

2. hmmmm.. perhaps you should google "murder capital of Europe" and you'll see what I experience. Especially concerning violence.

3. hahahaha the elitist and arrogant view of the average Joes-Schmoe of America.... bigger is better folks! what the fuck has size to do with it? is this a showing of cock thread? for your information Scotland has 5 times the population of Maine so stick that in your rifle and smoke it.

Home invasion is the act of illegally entering a private and occupied dwelling with violent intent for the purpose of committing a crime against the occupants such as robbery, assault, rape, murder, or kidnapping. Home invasion is generally an unauthorized and forceful entry into a dwelling.
Home invasion differs from burglary in having a violent intent, specific or general, much the same way as aggravated robbery—personally taking from someone by force—is differentiated from mere larceny (theft alone). As the term becomes more frequently used, particularly by the media, "home invasion" is evolving to identify a particular class of crime that involves multiple perpetrators (two or more); forced entry into a home; occupants who are home at the time of the invasion; use of weapons and physical intimidation; property theft; and victims who are unknown to the perpetrators.


5 times the population? the US has 300 times ... If our country was the size of Maine
we'd have few problems, it's about sheer numbers.
Nope not a bigger better thing, more like more people more violence more likelihood.

Sorry to hear you live in violence too, bummer.
Home invasions are rising here in Atlanta, including upscale neighborhoods.
They are brutal, sadistic and often end in a fatality.
The brutality can be personal as though revenge for what the homeowner has or is
though the perpetrators do not personally know their victims. This why many
homeowners are exercising their right to protect themselves and own a gun.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

5 times the population? the US has 300 times ... If our country was the size of Maine
we'd have few problems, it's about sheer numbers.
Nope not a bigger better thing, more like more people more violence more likelihood.

Sorry to hear you live in violence too, bummer.
Home invasions are rising here in Atlanta, including upscale neighborhoods.
They are brutal, sadistic and often end in a fatality.
The brutality can be personal as though revenge for what the homeowner has or is
though the perpetrators do not personally know their victims. This why many
homeowners are exercising their right to protect themselves and own a gun.

so how many gun deaths and violent murders does china have? if it's all about sheer numbers, then it should be 4 times the amount the US has, since the current population of China is 1.3 BILLION people to the US's 300 million.

UNODC murder rates most recent year
Region Rate Count
Africa 17.0 169105
Americas 15.4 144648
Asia 3.1 127120
Europe 3.5 24025
Oceania 2.9 1180
World 6.9 466078

and check this out, from http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/gun-crime-is-china-safer-than-the-west.html

The Stats

According to Gunpolicy.org, which references Karp's Small Arms Survey 2007, Cambridge University Press, there are over 40,000,000 privately held guns in China (numbers are only estimates due to the difficulty in sourcing information in this field in China). That might sound like a lot but when you compare that figure to the total population of China and contrast it to the 270,000,000 guns which are privately held in the US it suddenly doesn't seem too bad! In fact in an estimated ranking of the rate of private gun ownership, China ranks 102 out of 179 countries while America is, you've guessed it, number 1.

While there are no figures for China for the amount of gun homicides the overall homicide rate is 1.22/100,000 (2007), which when contrasted to the US rate of 5.61/100,000 (2007) (in light of the contrasting levels of gun ownership), suggests that guns have a large part to play in a country's murder rate. So, first and foremost you are statistically safer in China because there are fewer guns as a proportion of population.

The Law

China has some of the most stringent guns laws in the world. It is illegal for civilians to possess firearms and there is a two year prison penalty if caught doing so. Firearms are issued for certain uses such as hunting or professional shooting but are strictly licensed. In all cases fully automatic and semi automatic assault weapons are prohibited and the penalty for homicide committed with a firearm is usually death.

However, China offers a stick and carrot approach to enforcing gun law. Frequent collection and seizure programmes are run throughout the country, sometimes with financial incentives to turn in illegal firearms. Between 2005 and 2008 around 291,000 firearms were collected and destroyed in conjunction with a UN programme to eradicate illicit trade in small firearms. You are safer in China because the law comes down firmly against private gun ownership and the penalties for breaking the law are severe.

_

Facts?! We don't need no stinkin' facts! :roll:

goingtoverona

whether you love guns or hate them, i think you'll like this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8