VISIT ISRAEL. SHOOT A 'TERRORIST'

peacefrompaul

catefrances wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

catefrances wrote:

when i was in nashville recently i was staying across the road from a school and in the mornings was woken up by this tiny amplified voice pledging allegiance to the flag. its a weird concept to me. but i guess it helps the you hate america dont you? crowd to indoctrinate the unsuspecting and easily manipulated. and who is more unsuspecting and manipulatable than children???

I used to just stare at the flag in middle school

"I pledge allegiance, to the band."

fortunately we here in australia have no need to pledge allegiance to our flag. i can barely even look at the thing.

The flag has always been extremely symbolic for us, but, it has been taken to another level. I assume it got really insane during the Cold War... Someone else here probably knows.

gimmesometruth27

i'm not a big fan of our flag. unless it is in the shape of a t-shirt that i wear...i look pretty damn good in that hideous shirt haha...

gimmesometruth27

peacefrompaul wrote:

catefrances wrote:

when i was in nashville recently i was staying across the road from a school and in the mornings was woken up by this tiny amplified voice pledging allegiance to the flag. its a weird concept to me. but i guess it helps the you hate america dont you? crowd to indoctrinate the unsuspecting and easily manipulated. and who is more unsuspecting and manipulatable than children???

I used to just stare at the flag in middle school

"I pledge allegiance, to the band."

i remember in elementary school kids would get selected for the "honor" of going down to the main school office to recite the pledge of allegience over the loud speaker system that went into each classroom....oddly enough, everyone thought that the kids that got selected were cool. i remember doing it one time and i got nervous thinking i would fuck it up.... i still don't know why we started every day in school by reciting that pledge. it is not like it is something that we do every day at work or at home...unless you are stan smith or something...

peacefrompaul

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not a big fan of our flag. unless it is in the shape of a t-shirt that i wear...i look pretty damn good in that hideous shirt haha...

:thumbup:

peacefrompaul

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

catefrances wrote:

when i was in nashville recently i was staying across the road from a school and in the mornings was woken up by this tiny amplified voice pledging allegiance to the flag. its a weird concept to me. but i guess it helps the you hate america dont you? crowd to indoctrinate the unsuspecting and easily manipulated. and who is more unsuspecting and manipulatable than children???

I used to just stare at the flag in middle school

"I pledge allegiance, to the band."

i remember in elementary school kids would get selected for the "honor" of going down to the main school office to recite the pledge of allegience over the loud speaker system that went into each classroom....oddly enough, everyone thought that the kids that got selected were cool. i remember doing it one time and i got nervous thinking i would fuck it up.... i still don't know why we started every day in school by reciting that pledge. it is not like it is something that we do every day at work or at home...unless you are stan smith or something...

Stan Smith....

It was always a secretary here.... She'd start it off and then everyone else was supposed to finish.

catefrances

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not a big fan of our flag. unless it is in the shape of a t-shirt that i wear...i look pretty damn good in that hideous shirt haha...

... and ive photos to prove it....


.... or disprove it. :P


it is a good looking flag tho... not as cool as the welsh flag but....

gimmesometruth27

i can understand how some people might get upset if people do not put their hands over their hearts and recite the pledge or the national anthem. in my experience, it was always the older men who i am assuming were vets of wwII and vietnam. those guys sacrificed a lot for that piece of cloth, so i would think if i were in their shoes i would be upset about it toooo...but that goes back to the whole aspect of drawing little invisible lines on the ground and separating the land into nations. eventually nations invade one another and go to war. the flag is just a symbol representing whichever side you are on. but all of that is a discussion for another thread. but the nationalism angle actually relates to the common theme of these israel/palestine threads in that nationalism is one of the problems that exacerbates the anger and conflict.

gimmesometruth27

catefrances wrote:

... and ive photos to prove it....


.... or disprove it. :P

shhhhhhh!!! i thought i buried those!!

catefrances

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i can understand how some people might get upset if people do not put their hands over their hearts and recite the pledge or the national anthem. in my experience, it was always the older men who i am assuming were vets of wwII and vietnam. those guys sacrificed a lot for that piece of cloth, so i would think if i were in their shoes i would be upset about it toooo...but that goes back to the whole aspect of drawing little invisible lines on the ground and separating the land into nations. eventually nations invade one another and go to war. the flag is just a symbol representing whichever side you are on. but all of that is a discussion for another thread. but the nationalism angle actually relates to the common theme of these israel/palestine threads in that nationalism is one of the problems that exacerbates the anger and conflict.

absolutely. it seems to be a case of who belongs and who doesnt. arbitrary borders have caused all manner of problems in world history. its not really something we here in australia have had to deal with cause we share no common land borders with anyone else. but sometimes, for example, i look at the evolution of the united states of america and think how one day some peeps were living in one country... the only country theyd ever known and then an invisible border overtook them and they found themselves in another country...and yet they themselves didnt move an inch.

catefrances

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

... and ive photos to prove it....


.... or disprove it. :P

shhhhhhh!!! i thought i buried those!!

bwahaahahaaha no chance. theyre in my secret secret files.. for later use.

Cosmo

Smellyman wrote:

VivaPalestina wrote:

The pic of the blonde little girl reminds of the black and white newsreels of little blonde nazi kids saluting hitler. I always thought how can a little kid do that and that would never happen in our time.

I don't know. It creeps me out that in the US young kids have to stand and "pledge allegiance" to a flag.

...
You mean, like this:

...
You know, this was the norm for school kids to recite the 'Pledge Of Alliegence' prior ot December of 1942.

peacefrompaul

Cosmo wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

VivaPalestina wrote:

The pic of the blonde little girl reminds of the black and white newsreels of little blonde nazi kids saluting hitler. I always thought how can a little kid do that and that would never happen in our time.

I don't know. It creeps me out that in the US young kids have to stand and "pledge allegiance" to a flag.

...
You mean, like this:

...
You know, this was the norm for school kids to recite the 'Pledge Of Alliegence' prior ot December of 1942.

Okay, it did start that early. I wasn't sure...

peacefrompaul

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i can understand how some people might get upset if people do not put their hands over their hearts and recite the pledge or the national anthem. in my experience, it was always the older men who i am assuming were vets of wwII and vietnam. those guys sacrificed a lot for that piece of cloth, so i would think if i were in their shoes i would be upset about it toooo...but that goes back to the whole aspect of drawing little invisible lines on the ground and separating the land into nations. eventually nations invade one another and go to war. the flag is just a symbol representing whichever side you are on. but all of that is a discussion for another thread. but the nationalism angle actually relates to the common theme of these israel/palestine threads in that nationalism is one of the problems that exacerbates the anger and conflict.

Nationalism is a huge problem... People really need to sit back and see exactly what the hell it is doing...

If I was to go into your land and strip it from you, would you be pissed? Hell yeah

Hell, I certainly feel bad for the Native Americans, too.

Fuck war.... makes me sick. It's basically never fought for a good reason.

Cosmo

peacefrompaul wrote:

Okay, it did start that early. I wasn't sure...

...
Don't get me wrong... I love my country and I love my flag. I just don't like that creepy as fuck shit about institutionalized indoctrination pledges.
Too often, patriotism is confused with militarism and the belief that your country is better than others and others would be better off if you were running their show.
Wear your country's flag on your heart and you don't have to prove to anyone about your patriotism.

peacefrompaul

Cosmo wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

Okay, it did start that early. I wasn't sure...

...
Don't get me wrong... I love my country and I love my flag. I just don't like that creepy as fuck shit about institutionalized indoctrination pledges.
Too often, patriotism is confused with militarism and the belief that your country is better than others and others would be better off if you were running their show.
Wear your country's flag on your heart and you don't have to prove to anyone about your patriotism.

Agreed

MotoDC

Cosmo wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

Okay, it did start that early. I wasn't sure...

...
Don't get me wrong... I love my country and I love my flag. I just don't like that creepy as fuck shit about institutionalized indoctrination pledges.
Too often, patriotism is confused with militarism and the belief that your country is better than others and others would be better off if you were running their show.
Wear your country's flag on your heart and you don't have to prove to anyone about your patriotism.

Well put, but what you're describing is more like xenophobia than patriotism. But I get what you're saying about "patriotism is confused with..."

gimmesometruth27

MotoDC wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

Okay, it did start that early. I wasn't sure...

...
Don't get me wrong... I love my country and I love my flag. I just don't like that creepy as fuck shit about institutionalized indoctrination pledges.
Too often, patriotism is confused with militarism and the belief that your country is better than others and others would be better off if you were running their show.
Wear your country's flag on your heart and you don't have to prove to anyone about your patriotism.

Well put, but what you're describing is more like xenophobia than patriotism. But I get what you're saying about "patriotism is confused with..."

xenophobia. that was the word i was looking for when reading this thread the other day. i just remembered it and saw that you beat me to it.

i think that patriotism gets confused with a lot of things and a lot of times the term gets twisted to meet a certain agenda.