Human Nature: AMT's lack of consistency
Blockhead
Posts: 1,538
I don't post here much anymore but do browse/read alot of the Threads posted here.
One question I have for people that post here reguarly is why is there so much Hypocricy and blatant lack of consistency in terms of Human nature.
1.AMT seems to praise animals/nature, talk about how smart they are, ect... (never hear anything negative)
2.AMT talks about ending war/warfare as if its a simple task.
3. I see threads daily on shootings/murders/social injustices and there are always multiple comments about how fucked up society is/How humans are the lowest of the low, etc...
The general theam in this section seems to be Animal/nature praising and human/society degrading/ending the world type shit.
1 & 2 I'll combine, since people like to compare our complex actions to those of animals/natures actions.
- People here never talk about animal warfare/ or act like it does not exist in nature. In nature Humans are not the only species to wage warfare, Ants, Termites, and Chimpanzees all engage in warfare
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/scien ... .html?_r=1
Now to point 3. I read a recent article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 08180.html
about how violence has declined tracing back through history
When combine these three topics - Human nature/Nature/Warfare - It got me thinking about how AMT
has no consistancy when it comes to human nature, Most here recommend people read ishmeal (cause Eddie said so) and talk about living the hunter gather lifestyle and how much better previous generations of humanity were all while ignoring whats going on in nature right now and ignoring what going on with society/humanity now (most civil time in history) Do people here really want the life in Ishmeal the Tribe, hunter gather lifestyle. If you do, you need to realize that living that simple lifestyle will lead us back to a time when humans/aminamls will be fighting over the same resources that caused the most bloodshed
I think this place needs a dose of realiy and understand of what human nature is all about.
One question I have for people that post here reguarly is why is there so much Hypocricy and blatant lack of consistency in terms of Human nature.
1.AMT seems to praise animals/nature, talk about how smart they are, ect... (never hear anything negative)
2.AMT talks about ending war/warfare as if its a simple task.
3. I see threads daily on shootings/murders/social injustices and there are always multiple comments about how fucked up society is/How humans are the lowest of the low, etc...
The general theam in this section seems to be Animal/nature praising and human/society degrading/ending the world type shit.
1 & 2 I'll combine, since people like to compare our complex actions to those of animals/natures actions.
- People here never talk about animal warfare/ or act like it does not exist in nature. In nature Humans are not the only species to wage warfare, Ants, Termites, and Chimpanzees all engage in warfare
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/scien ... .html?_r=1
Now to point 3. I read a recent article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 08180.html
about how violence has declined tracing back through history
When combine these three topics - Human nature/Nature/Warfare - It got me thinking about how AMT
has no consistancy when it comes to human nature, Most here recommend people read ishmeal (cause Eddie said so) and talk about living the hunter gather lifestyle and how much better previous generations of humanity were all while ignoring whats going on in nature right now and ignoring what going on with society/humanity now (most civil time in history) Do people here really want the life in Ishmeal the Tribe, hunter gather lifestyle. If you do, you need to realize that living that simple lifestyle will lead us back to a time when humans/aminamls will be fighting over the same resources that caused the most bloodshed
I think this place needs a dose of realiy and understand of what human nature is all about.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
And you want us to be consistent….by accepting war because ants do it too?
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. That humans are violent by nature?
Even attempting to judge the entire forum is ridiculous.
I don't just criticize what humans do, I very frequently make suggestions about how we can make the world a better place. That, to me, is the whole point of being environmentally and socially conscious. Yes, I put "environmentally" first because if we don't have an environment that is healthy and in balance, eventually we will have a world that is inhospitable to our species and there will be no more people or social issues to worry about. At this point along our journey I'd call that triage.
I'm not sure anyone here thinks ending war is a simple task. The fact is, there are very few periods in history that have been free from war. I did read somewhere that Japan once had a 700 year period in there society that was free from war. Also, many American Indian tribes engaged in "war" in ways that were mostly symbolic in which "kills" were scored by counting coup- making contact with an opponent with a coup stick thus avoiding bloodshed. So yes, I do think ending war is possible though difficult.
As for praising animals/nature, to me that's more about seeing that nature has it's own ways based on cycles and balance to keep itself going and that we can learn much from this. But nature doesn't make decisions, it just does what it does to perpetuate itself and maintain that balance.
If we continue to eat up our resources, we may very well end up being hunter gatherers again- or maybe just scavengers for a while. I don't recall many people here suggesting that although Derrick Jensen makes a good case for it in his two volume End Game. There are alternatives between the realms of hunter gatherer and industrialization. Most of human history exists between those two worlds. But maybe we can find a new alternative that utilizes technology in a way that is sustainable. Without sustainability we will, be definition, run out of the resources necessary for our existence.
Blockhead, if you're suggesting we should spend more time talking about solutions, I'm all for that. Maybe we should all listen up and share more ideas that way.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Unfortunately, you make many assumptions in your post.
But, it's ok...your opinion of this place, of me, of humans, etc... - is as irrelevant and unimportant as mine is of you.
Somewhat along these animal lines is something that is on my mind at the moment so I'll put it here. Want a fine example of 'human nature'? How about a loser chick and her husband 'finding' a free pitbull puppy 3 weeks ago who was scared shitless (they got him from an ad in the paper) and they so graciously gave him a home, and now have an advertisement up on facebook to sell said pitbull for $75 OBO because they can't afford to feed it. I suppose a lion pride killing a gazelle for a meal in the wild should take precedence over such trivial issues. :roll:
great post Blockhead, I think some instincts are stronger or weaker from person to person such as the need to hunt and even trophy hunt for that matter,some will find it disgusting and imoral and some see it as need they have to survive.
Blockheads evaluation and opinion of the posts made by the folks here on the Train seem to have struck a nerve for some that have replyed and that may be the point to the thread...maybe I don't know.
Godfather.
Godfather, while I do agree with part of your second paragraph (how shit varies among people), I'm not sure I get where trophy hunting is instinctive or necessary for survival.
Trophy hunting...really I don't get it either but there are some that do,some of the stuff I have read says that some people need the rush or just in their mind feel they're right in what they do.
and I think survivle instincts are storred deep in the brain going back hundreds or thousands of years...and we are all wired differently maybe the chase and kill of the hunt awakens those storred survival memories in some people ?
Godfather.
I'm being honest, I read your post three(3) times and still can't figure out what the hell your point is...
this lack of consistency, can you give examples...?
I doubt it, but I would suggest that those folks who have instincts dating back thousands of years should get with the times...maybe eveolve (if they believe in evolution)...its 2012 for godsake.
and as far as people defending animals, its necessary. If we didnt have conservation and awareness regarding our environment and its inhabitants, many many species could/would die off because of us. Personally, I think that deep seated instinct that is most important is who respects the planet and their surroundings and who does not.
Blockhead, Ok, I liked your post initially....it did get me thinking, although I dont see where you got some of your generalizations from, but I do kinda understand what you bring up. Its a decent observation, but you end your post with garbage like this last line, basically suggesting that you know more than all the 'regulars' in here.
Anyways, I am always taken aback by humans that are sensitive to wild animals. For instance -- sharks. Many, many people are scared to death of them and would like to see them killed. But there are people who are scared of them that also recognize that they are en essential part of the ecosystem and the likelihood of being attacked is less than being struck by lightning. People need to be on the side of animals, and help protect them, even the mean sons-of-bitches that are out to rip our throats out.
People are very aware that animals fight and kill each other for no good reason sometimes, but instinct is a much different motive for an animal than a George Bush.. (or maybe not, who knows?
War, there will always be war ...
I don't even dream of a warless world.
I never read ishmeal but no I don't want to go back only forward ... it's a path
human nature should be our bond but it is not, we are alike in it but then think
we are so different ... and who likes different any way ?
read up on the human brain and the "inner brain" I think you'll find it amazing, a lot of theory and a lot of fact but both are a xlnt read.
Godfather.
I agree, I've read some stuff on the topic, very cool indeed. But to use it as an excuse for big game hunting for sport? I don't buy it.
Well said, Brian.
Maybe Blockhead could clarify what he's trying to say. I don't think I've seen much promotion of a hunter/gatherer lifestyle in here, unless Blockhead is taking that from anti-consumerism threads. I see a promotion of a respect toward the Earth and all it's beings. For me, the planet and animals give lessons on how to live in the moment, and that there is always a natural push towards living in balance, both internally and outwardly.
I would say it's human nature to 'lack consistency', because humans are able to reflect on the past and look ahead, and in general we always have an internal push to make things better. We're inconsistent because we live in a society that makes a negative impact, but at the same time we want less harm and negativity.
I agree..yessir, and I wonder if greed can then be considered an instinct?...it can certainly be argued to be a part of human nature.
Greed an instinct? Yes, But natures (animals) greed is differenty than ours.
We know greed as a manifestation of our society, and that so far and away from surviving in nature.
Do we really know what greed looks like in terms of survival?
you don't think it's possible ? if you know just a little you know that the brain is un-charted in many ways and the things we do know leave open doors for questions and theorys......but I guess theory is up to each person to come up with their own answers.
Godfather.
Well, anything is possible, but I cant fathom it in this particular case...aka, someone like Ted Nugent shooting a Rhino for fun. If this is the only way to satisfy a 1000 year old urge, we are a pathetic race.
I think you may have missed this part of my post, Godfather:
"Blockhead, if you're suggesting we should spend more time talking about solutions, I'm all for that. Maybe we should all listen up and share more ideas that way."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
sorry man,you're right I did, I'm a skimmer
Godfather.
I think people like to have grand ideas, but it's not easy to put them into practice.