Don't Frack Ohio

Stardog3..

DS1119 wrote:

Stardog3.. wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Sure there are downsides of doing it but those upsides are certainly more beneficial.

Temporary economic boom and only about 100 years of natural gas? Then a huge bust and you end up with people in the same position they were before- with high poverty rates and high percentages of drug and alcohol abuse among the workers, etc. etc. And then what happens to these rural communities that developed infrastructure and whatnot to accommodate the people that moved there for the industry after there is no more? Plus you have it causing illnesses in people, like us and our families, environmental degradation/pollution AND manmade earthquakes. Why not put a stop to it now before we get too invested? Why not invest in other things that can create jobs and work for us in the long term that are DEFINITELY more beneficial?

I really don't want to argue here but using this logic what happens when the earth's natural oil supply runs out. Should we also sit there shaking our fingers and kicking the dirt that we shouldn't have done that either?

It's in the past. We can't reverse it. We can focus on the present and future. It's called clean renewable energy. Investing in a number of areas that are clean/renewable and creating the jobs in those areas are what we need to be doing.

And the toxic chemicals that are being injected into the ground that are not naturally found in the ground ARE polluting the water. Plus we are wasting massive amounts of water needed to frack in the first place. So you're saying why not just pollute the water as much as we can? Would you drink it? If they were fracking in your neighborhood, would let you and your kids live there?

DS1119

Stardog3.. wrote:

It's in the past. We can't reverse it. We can focus on the present and future. It's called clean renewable energy. Investing in a number of areas that are clean/renewable and creating the jobs in those areas are what we need to be doing.

And the toxic chemicals that are being injected into the ground that are not naturally found in the ground ARE polluting the water. Plus we are wasting massive amounts of water needed to frack in the first place. So you're saying why not just pollute the water as much as we can? Would you drink it? If they were fracking in your neighborhood, would let you and your kids live there?

As soon as the majority is willing to shoulder the burden of developing the technolgy to develop and create renewable and sustainable energy thats cost effective I wouldn't hold my breath. Gas went from 1 dollar a gallon to 4 dollars a gallon in a decade here in the US so I don't think the lines are too long to donate or contribute to those causes any time soon. It's all about cheap energy now.

As your water point. Water can be filtered of toxic chemicals if need be and technically water can not be wasted. It just evaporates and comes right back down as rain. These water shortages you read about is just too many people in one given area that the infrastructure can not support. There's plenty of water on the planet. It may just not be in the places we need it to be at any given moment.

mickeyrat

too late, wells are already growing in numbers. Hell, even th eGov is seeking to up the fees and tax to make it more in line with Texas and N Dakota. OF COURSE the drilling companies dont want that, it wol dtake away jobs. BS!!!! Too much to be made in this. The state should get theirs and use th extra as a rainy day clean up fund when those fuckers bail on their duty to clean up after themselves.

SatansFuton

Stardog3.. wrote:

Temporary economic boom and only about 100 years of natural gas? Then a huge bust and you end up with people in the same position they were before- with high poverty rates and high percentages of drug and alcohol abuse among the workers, etc. etc.

:fp:

Look, if you're against Fracking, OK. But that's a fucking Stretch Armstrong stretch. What the hell does drug/alcohol abuse have to do with Fracking?

Stardog3..

SatansFuton wrote:

Stardog3.. wrote:

Temporary economic boom and only about 100 years of natural gas? Then a huge bust and you end up with people in the same position they were before- with high poverty rates and high percentages of drug and alcohol abuse among the workers, etc. etc.

:fp:

Look, if you're against Fracking, OK. But that's a fucking Stretch Armstrong stretch. What the hell does drug/alcohol abuse have to do with Fracking?

After the industry booms and the resources run out of the area, there's no more to frack etc. There will be high poverty rates. It is just like what happened in a lot of coal mining communities. There was also huge jumps in drug/alcohol abuse. It happened in the Pacific NW as well when they started restricting the cutting of old growth forests. If you would like detailed charts displaying those rates and explaining the social effects of these decisions, I am more than happy to post them or send them to you.

Look, I didn't want to argue here because I understand that people have different values/behaviors. We all interpret the information we read differently, depending on those values and behaviors. And a lot of us are only informed because we read selective articles and get our information from selective news sources. I don't come from any point of view. I'm not an environmentalist, activist, republican, democrat, in the clean energy or the oil business. I am in research and study economics, social science,etc. I understand that all groups in different conflicts have valid points- that's why you don't see me around here preaching about anything. I think I've posted in AMT twice. However, in the case of hydraulic fracturing, the data and evidence is too strong to ignore and I do not want that going on where I live. I posted this here for people to explore it if they want or come if they're against it. If you are for it, move on.

SatansFuton

Stardog3.. wrote:

SatansFuton wrote:

Stardog3.. wrote:

Temporary economic boom and only about 100 years of natural gas? Then a huge bust and you end up with people in the same position they were before- with high poverty rates and high percentages of drug and alcohol abuse among the workers, etc. etc.

:fp:

Look, if you're against Fracking, OK. But that's a fucking Stretch Armstrong stretch. What the hell does drug/alcohol abuse have to do with Fracking?

After the industry booms and the resources run out of the area, there's no more to frack etc. There will be high poverty rates. It is just like what happened in a lot of coal mining communities. There was also huge jumps in drug/alcohol abuse. It happened in the Pacific NW as well when they started restricting the cutting of old growth forests. If you would like detailed charts displaying those rates and explaining the social effects of these decisions, I am more than happy to post them or send them to you.

If somebody begins abusing alcohol/drugs, that's on them, not whatever is happening in the local economy. And it's a terrible excuse anyway. If you don't have a job you shouldn't have the disposable income to spend on drugs/alcohol and have your ass busy looking for a new job.

Heisenberg

I'm in. Go Frack yourselves you fracking frackers

Jason P

What's all the fracus about?

Stardog3..

SatansFuton wrote:

If somebody begins abusing alcohol/drugs, that's on them, not whatever is happening in the local economy. And it's a terrible excuse anyway. If you don't have a job you shouldn't have the disposable income to spend on drugs/alcohol and have your ass busy looking for a new job.

It's just one aspect of the many reasons why fracking is not a good choice. Where are they going to get the money to relocate? Who are they going to sell their homes to? Where are they going to find jobs in these rural communities that were solely dependent on this natural resource?? And it's not anyone's place to judge how people use their money. There are many different issues people experience that contribute to addiction as many of us know. It truly is just a trend in these areas that is worthy of noting. There are so many bigger issues with hydraulic fracturing...this is just one aspect of the social effects and not being used as an excuse for anything. However, we often do not take into account the quality of life for people and how decisions being made in our communities effect that- a lot of times we just focus on two sides, business and environment. I value people as well.

Stardog3..

Heisenberg wrote:

I'm in. Go Frack yourselves you fracking frackers

I really want to make a shirt with something of that nature printed on it. Hope to see you there!

SatansFuton

Stardog3.. wrote:

SatansFuton wrote:

If somebody begins abusing alcohol/drugs, that's on them, not whatever is happening in the local economy. And it's a terrible excuse anyway. If you don't have a job you shouldn't have the disposable income to spend on drugs/alcohol and have your ass busy looking for a new job.

It's just one aspect of the many reasons why fracking is not a good choice. Where are they going to get the money to relocate? Who are they going to sell their homes to? Where are they going to find jobs in these rural communities that were solely dependent on this natural resource?? And it's not anyone's place to judge how people use their money. There are many different issues people experience that contribute to addiction as many of us know. It truly is just a trend in these areas that is worthy of noting. There are so many bigger issues with hydraulic fracturing...this is just one aspect of the social effects and not being used as an excuse for anything. However, we often do not take into account the quality of life for people and how decisions being made in our communities effect that- a lot of times we just focus on two sides, business and environment. I value people as well.

I realize many things contribute to addiction, which is why I find it silly you're throwing that into the Fracking issue.

I don't know how Fracking is going to be in Ohio, but here in Texas there aren't communities built around or dependent on it. At least not that I know of. It's just another thing that goes on around here. It's not like old coal mining or steel mill towns where the entire town was built around the mine/mill and if it shut down the entire community was dead. Any business shutting down can have an adverse affect on the local economy, that doesn't mean nobody should ever try to start one up because one day it might close down and cause economic ripples.

I'm not necessarily for or against Fracking. I've heard the good/bad stories, and heard the other side supposedly debunk the other side. Heard stories of exploding water, etc. I don't really know. I just think you're adding some unnecessary arguments to your side.

As for it's not anybody's place to judge how people spend their money. If we're talking about these people who have hypothetically lost their livelihood, have fallen into poverty, and are now abusing drugs and alcohol, I feel pretty comfortable saying they shouldn't be spending money they supposedly don't have on getting fucked up. It's just common sense. On one hand you're saying "where will these people get money to relocate and get new jobs?" and on the other hand saying they'll be spending money on drugs and alcohol and we shouldn't judge them for that.

I think there are some good arguments against Fracking, all I'm saying is I don't think this is one of them.

DS1119

I need a fracking beer.

SatansFuton

DS1119 wrote:

I need a fracking beer.

You better have a fracking job.

DS1119

SatansFuton wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I need a fracking beer.

You better have a fracking job.

I don't. The one business in my town closed its doors so I'm now unemployed, an alcoholic, and a drug addict. I blame them not the fact that I'm too lazy to find another job or possibly even move. :fp:

Stardog3..

SatansFuton wrote:

I think there are some good arguments against Fracking, all I'm saying is I don't think this is one of them.

I understand what you are saying and see where you are coming from.

I think socially there are more important issues as well, like the infrastructure issue and the inflation in those areas which can make things difficult for long time residents. I think if you do some extensive research you will recognize that these things are very present and some of the rural communities are already seeing the effects of these things. I can send you some information if you would like.

However, I think including EVERYTHING is important as I do not enjoy just picking and choosing things. To some of these people, addiction is a serious psychological effect for workers in these communities and that is why I included it in a list of social effects.

I would not mind posting the benefits here as well just for people to draw their own conclusion- some of which have been touched on: http://www.heatingoil.com/articles/hydraulic-fracturing-hydrofracking-the-risks-and-rewards-of-the-controversial-drilling-technique1130/

Stardog3..

Show some respect for other people. Just because this doesn't involve you and your view on the subject doesn't mean you can be assholes. I've been respectful of everything you guys have said and engaged in respectable debate.

SatansFuton

Stardog3.. wrote:

SatansFuton wrote:

I think there are some good arguments against Fracking, all I'm saying is I don't think this is one of them.

I understand what you are saying and see where you are coming from.

I think socially there are more important issues as well, like the infrastructure issue and the inflation in those areas which can make things difficult for long time residents. I think if you do some extensive research you will recognize that these things are very present and some of the rural communities are already seeing the effects of these things. I can send you some information if you would like.

However, I think including EVERYTHING is important as I do not enjoy just picking and choosing things. To some of these people, addiction is a serious psychological effect for workers in these communities and that is why I included it in a list of social effects.

I would not mind posting the benefits here as well just for people to draw their own conclusion- some of which have been touched on: http://www.heatingoil.com/articles/hydraulic-fracturing-hydrofracking-the-risks-and-rewards-of-the-controversial-drilling-technique1130/

I just think you should stick to the Fracking Specific issues, otherwise you just sound like you're against any kind of commerce what-so-ever. Addiction isn't specific to fracking. People abusing drugs/alcohol because they're depressed about losing their job or whatever can happen to anybody with any job. And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea of protecting people from getting fired (and all that comes with being unemployed) by just not letting them have the job in the first place.

DS1119

Stardog3.. wrote:

Show some respect for other people. Just because this doesn't involve you and your view on the subject doesn't mean you can be assholes. I've been respectful of everything you guys have said and engaged in respectable debate.

Who's this targeted at? :?

Stardog3..

SatansFuton wrote:

Stardog3.. wrote:

SatansFuton wrote:

I think there are some good arguments against Fracking, all I'm saying is I don't think this is one of them.

I understand what you are saying and see where you are coming from.

I think socially there are more important issues as well, like the infrastructure issue and the inflation in those areas which can make things difficult for long time residents. I think if you do some extensive research you will recognize that these things are very present and some of the rural communities are already seeing the effects of these things. I can send you some information if you would like.

However, I think including EVERYTHING is important as I do not enjoy just picking and choosing things. To some of these people, addiction is a serious psychological effect for workers in these communities and that is why I included it in a list of social effects.

I would not mind posting the benefits here as well just for people to draw their own conclusion- some of which have been touched on: http://www.heatingoil.com/articles/hydraulic-fracturing-hydrofracking-the-risks-and-rewards-of-the-controversial-drilling-technique1130/

I just think you should stick to the Fracking Specific issues, otherwise you just sound like you're against any kind of commerce what-so-ever. Addiction isn't specific to fracking. People abusing drugs/alcohol because they're depressed about losing their job or whatever can happen to anybody with any job. And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea of protecting people from getting fired (and all that comes with being unemployed) by just not letting them have the job in the first place.

I'm for sustainable economic growth. I'm not trying to protect anybody from getting fired. I'm talking about communities who are dependent on these natural resources and the social effects when you have these boom and bust type industries. Not to mention, all the environmental issues and the fact that this is not going to be something we can depend on forever -- which are my biggest concerns. However, as I noted, we often do not include effects on society and quality of life. This is just one example of the larger issue we have created and that is an economy where we solely focus on GDP and nothing else. Don't tell me what to do...worry about yourself. To some people, I'm not "coming off" the way you interpret. Like I said we all interpret and dissect things differently, which is why I did not want to argue about this in the first place and was using it as a way to just let people know about the groups of people joining in Columbus, OH June 14-17 to show that they are against fracking in their neighborhoods. But I do appreciate you keeping this on top of the AET forum and I appreciate you voicing your concerns until you start becoming intentionally disrespectful and start saying bullshit based on your shallow thoughts.

Stardog3..

DS1119 wrote:

SatansFuton wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I need a fracking beer.

You better have a fracking job.

I don't. The one business in my town closed its doors so I'm now unemployed, an alcoholic, and a drug addict. I blame them not the fact that I'm too lazy to find another job or possibly even move. :fp:

This wasn't really called for.