migrants don't know how to wear deodorant or queue

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

I give every ethnic group a chance

your first step shoud be treating people as individuals, and not as a group.

electronblue

I think differences are good, including hygiene and courtesy. It's an opportunity being offered up to step out of our "my culture is the right way" mentality that we can get into sometimes.

Thoughts_Arrive

Byrnzie wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

I meant all people born here when I said 'native'.
Not aborigines....

Does it irk you that many aborigines have chosen not to adopt your culture?

They were here first so no.
What you getting at with the constant references to the Aborigines?

Byrnzie

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

I meant all people born here when I said 'native'.
Not aborigines....

Does it irk you that many aborigines have chosen not to adopt your culture?

They were here first so no.
What you getting at with the constant references to the Aborigines?

Constant references? I count one made by me in this thread.

Anyway...this thread is weird.

Thoughts_Arrive

You have mentioned aborigines to me numerous times on AMT....

Byrnzie

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

You have mentioned aborigines to me numerous times on AMT....

Shame on me.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Go Beavers wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

rolerick wrote:

We have all been migrants at one point or another.

True.

And the real problem is that by generalizing an entire population in this case, now it becomes taboo to talk about the real issue...which is still it is probably true that there is a population of people that have a different set or norms then the society that they are living in. Differences are good, except when it comes to hygiene and courtesy.

I can't tell you how many stinky elevators I road on in engineering school.

I think differences are good, including hygiene and courtesy. It's an opportunity being offered up to step out of our "my culture is the right way" mentality that we can get into sometimes.

If I have read this correctly, I disagree with it entirely. I don't care what culture exists, courtesy is a baseline and staple human behaviour that reflects compassion and understanding for fellow man. In Canada, with exceptions of course, we teach and extend courtesy to people as a fundamental behaviour. Disrespectful attitudes are frowned upon. Any culture that accepts selfish behaviour as normal is flat out weak and hardly one to accept or celebrate for being merely different.

With the aforementioned said, I'm not sure which cultures are universally poor at being courteous?

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

With the aforementioned said, I'm not sure which cultures are universally poor at being courteous?

China would make it onto that list. There really is a problem here with people having no regard for others. Like when a lift door opens, the people on the outside don't wait for those inside to walk out before entering, but just push straight in. Same on buses.

It's weird, because in many other ways the Chinese are the friendliest people you could meet. I've had strangers walk up to me in restaurants here and just pay for my meal. And on many occasions in a bar or club people will just invite you to their table and buy you beer and food all night.

But in other ways they can be really rude, like people will always try and push in front in a queue, and they have no qualms about smoking in lifts ('elevators' for the Americans reading this). On the other hand, they're not really an aggressive people, and are often quick to apologize if you call them out on their lack of courtesy. The lack of manners & courtesy is something they inherit from their parents, as you often see the children copying their parents - just this morning the lift door opened and a young kid was standing dead-centre in front of the doors and tried to barge straight in, with her Dad standing behind her.

The bottom line is, when it comes to common courtesy and manners, the Chinese definitely scrape the bottom of the barrel.
But this place is full of contradictions.


On the flip side, I worked in London for six years and commuted on the Trains and the Tube every day, and that was pretty much a daily bout of uptight antagonism. People pushing and shoving. People taking hot, smelly food onto the Tube, people walking onto the train and then stopping still so that those behind them can't get on...
So basically, I think a lot of people are just pretty rude everywhere. Not everyone, but a fair percentage. And I'm pretty sure I must have contributed my fair share of animosity and impatience over those years. :oops:
I can't say I miss it. I never want to have to commute to work again.

Smellyman

people are too easily offended.

People growing up elsewhere may have different manners.....shocking

just because they don't share your "manners" doesn't mean you don't offend them in other ways becuase you don't share their "manners". There is huge cultural differences in common courtesy.

Go Beavers

Byrnzie wrote:

China would make it onto that list. There really is a problem here with people having no regard for others. Like when a lift door opens, the people on the outside don't wait for those inside to walk out before entering, but just push straight in. Same on buses.

It's weird, because in many other ways the Chinese are the friendliest people you could meet. I've had strangers walk up to me in restaurants here and just pay for my meal. And on many occasions in a bar or club people will just invite you to their table and buy you beer and food all night.

But in other ways they can be really rude, like people will always try and push in front in a queue, and they have no qualms about smoking in lifts ('elevators' for the Americans reading this). On the other hand, they're not really an aggressive people, and are often quick to apologize if you call them out on their lack of courtesy. The lack of manners & courtesy is something they inherit from their parents, as you often see the children copying their parents - just this morning the lift door opened and a young kid was standing dead-centre in front of the doors and tried to barge straight in, with her Dad standing behind her.

The bottom line is, when it comes to common courtesy and manners, the Chinese definitely scrape the bottom of the barrel.
But this place is full of contradictions.


On the flip side, I worked in London for six years and commuted on the Trains and the Tube every day, and that was pretty much a daily bout of uptight antagonism. People pushing and shoving. People taking hot, smelly food onto the Tube, people walking onto the train and then stopping still so that those behind them can't get on...
So basically, I think a lot of people are just pretty rude everywhere. Not everyone, but a fair percentage. And I'm pretty sure I must have contributed my fair share of animosity and impatience over those years. :oops:
I can't say I miss it. I never want to have to commute to work again.

The question you raise for me is how much of this is courtesy that is lost in large urban areas. You make the point yourself when referencing London being similar to China regarding trains. I don't have experience in China, but in London I found people to be courteous in more isolated situations, say one-on-one, but in the tube I saw several old ladies getting shouldered in the mash on and off the train, especially during rush hour.

Within each culture, you'll find certain contradictions or exceptions. The term 'critical mass' in relation the cycling, comes from China, where auto traffic will stop for cyclists if a large enough group has amassed at the intersection in order to let them pass. In the U.S., I don't see this happening as the only way cars would stop at an intersection (in a large city) would be if it's legally required.

A good research question would be what culture is able to retain it's courteous behaviors and norms across the population density spectrum (from small town to large city).

Go Beavers

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I think differences are good, including hygiene and courtesy. It's an opportunity being offered up to step out of our "my culture is the right way" mentality that we can get into sometimes.

If I have read this correctly, I disagree with it entirely. I don't care what culture exists, courtesy is a baseline and staple human behaviour that reflects compassion and understanding for fellow man. In Canada, with exceptions of course, we teach and extend courtesy to people as a fundamental behaviour. Disrespectful attitudes are frowned upon. Any culture that accepts selfish behaviour as normal is flat out weak and hardly one to accept or celebrate for being merely different.

With the aforementioned said, I'm not sure which cultures are universally poor at being courteous?

But each culture has their own definition of what courtesy is. There is no baseline definition across the globe. While Canadian culture of courtesy is appealing to me, that doesn't mean it's more or less 'normal' or is the standard for which other cultures should be measured against.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Go Beavers wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I think differences are good, including hygiene and courtesy. It's an opportunity being offered up to step out of our "my culture is the right way" mentality that we can get into sometimes.

If I have read this correctly, I disagree with it entirely. I don't care what culture exists, courtesy is a baseline and staple human behaviour that reflects compassion and understanding for fellow man. In Canada, with exceptions of course, we teach and extend courtesy to people as a fundamental behaviour. Disrespectful attitudes are frowned upon. Any culture that accepts selfish behaviour as normal is flat out weak and hardly one to accept or celebrate for being merely different.

With the aforementioned said, I'm not sure which cultures are universally poor at being courteous?

But each culture has their own definition of what courtesy is. There is no baseline definition across the globe. While Canadian culture of courtesy is appealing to me, that doesn't mean it's more or less 'normal' or is the standard for which other cultures should be measured against.

I get what you're saying, but I still disagree. Referencing some extremes, cannabalism is prevalent in some cultures as is polygamy. While these may be novel and unique characteristics of a distinct culture, they are distasteful and can rightfully be scorned... just as poor manners.

your move now

while I'm not endorsing cannibalism, don't you think your understanding of right and wrong (and mine) are simply a result of our socialisation?

catefrances

But she admitted they were inappropriate and did not reflect Coalition policy, and apologised for any offence caused.


the coalition has a policy of smelly armpits???


you know ive found an overabundance use of perfume to be just as, if not more offensive than any natural human smell.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

your move now wrote:

while I'm not endorsing cannibalism, don't you think your understanding of right and wrong (and mine) are simply a result of our socialisation?

To some degree, yes; but I'm not talking about slurping your soup to show respect to the cook or breaking plates. I'm talking about a baseline level of respect that any human being with any level of compassion or empathy should acquire (ie. displaying a level of patience for a disabled person). If the training for acquiring appropriate social awareness has not occurred due to cultural neglect, then I say that culture is weak- poorly adapted, not fully evolved, and quite simply- prehistoric in its capacity.

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

cannabalism is prevalent in some cultures...

Such as?

I was under the impression that cannibalism was largely a myth.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

cannabalism is prevalent in some cultures...

Such as?

I was under the impression that cannibalism was largely a myth.

Come on. Are you serious? Byrnzie... you are well-spoken on this forum, so I cannot help but wonder what this question is really intending. For the Hell of it, cannabalism has been well documented throughout history. Some South American Amazon based societies practiced cannabalism. Africa has periods of history marked with cannabalistic behaviours as well (some not so long ago).

My point wasn't about cannabalism however, it was about addressing whether or not baseline behaviours for common courtesy should be expected from all people. And, repeating myself, yes there should. It is not okay to be a rude SOB just because your culture condones poor behaviours.

Prince Of Dorkness

I bet the movie version was in "Smell-O-Vision."

Byrnzie

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

cannabalism is prevalent in some cultures...

Such as?

I was under the impression that cannibalism was largely a myth.

Come on. Are you serious? Byrnzie... you are well-spoken on this forum, so I cannot help but wonder what this question is really intending. For the Hell of it, cannabalism has been well documented throughout history. Some South American Amazon based societies practiced cannabalism. Africa has periods of history marked with cannabalistic behaviours as well (some not so long ago).

My point wasn't about cannabalism however, it was about addressing whether or not baseline behaviours for common courtesy should be expected from all people. And, repeating myself, yes there should. It is not okay to be a rude SOB just because your culture condones poor behaviours.

I really don't know much about it, but apart from instances of cannibalism during times of famine, including the famine in China cause by Mao during 'The Great Leap Forward' between 1958-1961, I thought that most instances of cannibalism had been attributed to the fertile imaginations of Western explorers. Though I could be wrong.
Of course I could Google it but on this occasion I'll leave it up to somebody else.

chadwick

Smellyman wrote:

people are too easily offended.

People growing up elsewhere may have different manners.....shocking

just because they don't share your "manners" doesn't mean you don't offend them in other ways becuase you don't share their "manners". There is huge cultural differences in common courtesy.

thank you. many forget this as soon as they leave their yard and cross the seas. americans are terrible w/ this.
we go to mexico and other countries and get into trouble we think we are the utter top elitist whom can dodge laws even. why? because americans can take their country's laws across borders. this the arrogance of the white man. i say white man as it is facts. we americans do push others around and believe we are above others.

does a black american man go to tijuana and piss in the streets whilst drunk with his college friends? answer, probably not. will we see a white american male do this act? answer, yes...and often.

people are arrested...americans are arrested often for pissing in the alleys and other shadowy places whilst drunk as shit in mexico. this is a fact. it is largely talked about.