Gaddafi 'dead'

FinsburyParkCarrots

Bagsy me first with the breaking news

FinsburyParkCarrots

http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/gaddaf ... -1.1161359

I wonder whether his golden suit with the Roger Daltrey tassles and the fat shoulder pads will turn up on eBay.

dimitrispearljam

and the planet is safe now in Peace..awesome

wolfamongwolves

No confirmation of either his capture or his death yet, though there is a pretty grisly picture on the Guardian blog.

Personally, I hope he hasn't been killed and that he has to answer for his crimes in front of the ICC.

wolfamongwolves

dimitrispearljam wrote:

and the planet is safe now in Peace..awesome

I assume you're being sarcastic, Dimi!

FinsburyParkCarrots

wolfamongwolves wrote:

No confirmation of either his capture or his death yet, though there is a pretty grisly picture on the Guardian blog.

Personally, I hope he hasn't been killed and that he has to answer for his crimes in front of the ICC.

Yeah, it's a bit on the Budd Dwyer side, that picture.

wolfamongwolves

So... there are reports he was killed in an airstrike. There are reports that he was captured alive and was wounded in both legs. There are reports that he was taken to hospital. There are reports that he was shot in both legs and then in the head. There are reports that he was shot in the belly. There are reports that he was slapped with a shoe. I think the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't know anything for certain yet.

Newch91

wolfamongwolves wrote:

No confirmation of either his capture or his death yet, though there is a pretty grisly picture on the Guardian blog.

Personally, I hope he hasn't been killed and that he has to answer for his crimes in front of the ICC.

I had to look away quickly when I first saw the picture.

gimmesometruth27

wolfamongwolves wrote:

So... there are reports he was killed in an airstrike. There are reports that he was captured alive and was wounded in both legs. There are reports that he was taken to hospital. There are reports that he was shot in both legs and then in the head. There are reports that he was shot in the belly. There are reports that he was slapped with a shoe. I think the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't know anything for certain yet.

yes there are a lot of unconfirmed reports and rumors out there. i don't know who to believe. i am pretty sure we will know something in the next few hours.

so does this mean that the revolution in libya is officially over? or are there still gadhafi loyalists fighting?

dimitrispearljam

wolfamongwolves wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

and the planet is safe now in Peace..awesome

I assume you're being sarcastic, Dimi!

ofcourse im buddy..

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

So... there are reports he was killed in an airstrike. There are reports that he was captured alive and was wounded in both legs. There are reports that he was taken to hospital. There are reports that he was shot in both legs and then in the head. There are reports that he was shot in the belly. There are reports that he was slapped with a shoe. I think the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't know anything for certain yet.

"slapped with a shoe"

I would have liked to see him stand trial and live out his life in prison

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

So... there are reports he was killed in an airstrike. There are reports that he was captured alive and was wounded in both legs. There are reports that he was taken to hospital. There are reports that he was shot in both legs and then in the head. There are reports that he was shot in the belly. There are reports that he was slapped with a shoe. I think the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't know anything for certain yet.

"slapped with a shoe"

I would have liked to see him stand trial and live out his life in prison

Me too.

Hitting someone with a shoe is an extreme sign of disrespect in the region. Remember this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7782422.stm

wolfamongwolves

Al-Jazeera, who are unambiguously saying he is dead, are now saying there are reports that he was alive when he was captured. It would be a pretty bad start to the NTC's administration if they are already involved in summary executions.

redrock

Lots of conflicting and unconfirmed reports of what actually has happened. It's almost certain he is dead but how....? Though does anyone really think that if he was captured alive that the 'rebels' would have let him live?

wolfamongwolves

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

so does this mean that the revolution in libya is officially over? or are there still gadhafi loyalists fighting?

The BBC has this: Konstantin Kosachev, who heads the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, tells the Interfax news agency the capture of Col Gaddafi, if proved to be true, "will not mark a turning point in the Libyan conflict". He says there is no reason to think the situation in Libya will "normalise" if the rumours are confirmed.

Reuters are reporting that the NTC Vice-Chairman has confirmed that Gaddafi is dead. The interim president is getting ready to make a statement...

EDIT: Al-Jazeera are showing a close up picture of someone who looks very like Gaddafi, and looks very dead. Apparently, it's from a video of his body being dragged through the streets... grim.

redrock

TV just showed Gaddafi's body being dragged around through the streets.....

shadowcast

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle- ... e#block-38

Pic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g07otrwI4j4

video

wolfamongwolves

Richard Dickler, director of Human Rights Watch's international justice programme, said:

Reports of Muammar Gaddafi's death, if accurate, deprive the Libyan people of the chance to see him held to account in a fair trial at the ICC for the egregious crimes he allegedly committed while suppressing peaceful demonstrations in February 2011.
However, his demise does not extinguish the need to bring to trial those most responsible for serious crimes against humanity and war crimes in Libya to fair trial in The Hague.

wolfamongwolves

The Libyan Prime Minister has announced Gaddafi's death.

Sludge Factory

Pretty costly stuff...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/exclusive/1 ... 11231.html

Cliffy6745

Sludge Factory wrote:

Pretty costly stuff...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/exclusive/1 ... 11231.html

Better than the almost $800 billion we spent on another dictator.

Sludge Factory

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Sludge Factory wrote:

Pretty costly stuff...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/exclusive/1 ... 11231.html

Better than the almost $800 billion we spent on another dictator.

Yes, better than spending more on other dictators from a purely costs standpoint, but I think maybe the amount spent propping Gaddafi up should be factored into this as well. $1 billion to take him but how many billions did we give him throughout his rule?

That's all besides the point, though, whether it is $1 billion or $800 billion it is all wasted money and all falls under the category of egregious.

puremagic

Most the news media have edited Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, full reaction to Gadaff’s murder. We all know once it goes viral, someone has it and good ole YouTube may be the one only left standing, for now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y.

WTF, We came, We saw, He died, as she laughed and clapped. How bloody are the hands of America in this whole so called ‘April Spring’ campaign? Look at Iraq? Look at the future state of countries like Yemen, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan, the list could go on and on. People will get to have elections, people will get recognized as a democracy and yet, as rich as their countries are in resources, the people will still be poor, living off of handouts of the IMF and World Bank while the West privatize and profit off their resources.

Gadaff’s death is a direct result of the so-called April Spring campaign. Watching Hillary Clinton laughing, made me wonder, if the faces of these protesters for democracy are the future faces of terrorists when all the promises are broken or fail. When things don't change, when they realize their leadership is just a puppet of the West and they are still unemployed, still hungry, still on a watch list, still Third World, still Muslim.

Idris

puremagic wrote:

Most the news media have edited Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, full reaction to Gadaff’s murder. We all know once it goes viral, someone has it and good ole YouTube may be the one only left standing, for now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y.

WTF, We came, We saw, He died, as she laughed and clapped. How bloody are the hands of America in this whole so called ‘April Spring’ campaign? Look at Iraq? Look at the future state of countries like Yemen, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan, the list could go on and on. People will get to have elections, people will get recognized as a democracy and yet, as rich as their countries are in resources, the people will still be poor, living off of handouts of the IMF and World Bank while the West privatize and profit off their resources.

Gadaff’s death is a direct result of the so-called April Spring campaign. Watching Hillary Clinton laughing, made me wonder, if the faces of these protesters for democracy are the future faces of terrorists when all the promises are broken or fail. When things don't change, when they realize their leadership is just a puppet of the West and they are still unemployed, still hungry, still on a watch list, still Third World, still Muslim.

That is a really good post,

Idris

redrock wrote:

TV just showed Gaddafi's body being dragged around through the streets.....

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/afric ... 75476.html

tybird

redrock wrote:

TV just showed Gaddafi's body being dragged around through the streets.....

I need to teach a section in Dictatorship 101.....when the shit goes bad.....when there's a slight to good chance that you are about to lose a bloody civil war or simply just a war....Don't be Mussolini......get the fuck out...be Idi Amin...living the good life in exile...in Saudi Arabia.

Thoughts_Arrive

He could've been a hip hop star, he was like another Kool Moe Dee or Afrika Bambataa with his fashion.

redrock

puremagic wrote:

....if the faces of these protesters for democracy are the future faces of terrorists when all the promises are broken or fail. When things don't change, when they realize their leadership is just a puppet of the West and they are still unemployed, still hungry, still on a watch list, still Third World, still Muslim.

What troubled me greatly is the manner of Gaddafi's death - captured then beaten, manhandled, humiliated, dragged through the streets, executed with a bullet in the head - and the response from the NTC. Whilst videos and photos taken by the rebel forces and others clearly show what happened, the NTC still maintain that he got 'caught in crossfire' and, contrary to what they said (ie there will be an autopsy to determine cause of death - at the appeal of human rights groups and a few governments), now the military council is saying no autopsy will take place - now or ever.

So when it comes to Gaddafi, I go by the old adage 'live by the sword, die by the sword' but I am very sad at the way this was handled. A new society supposedly there for democracy, law & order and transparency start off with a flagrant act of breach of human rights (which some may say Gaddafi wasn't entitled to anything(, a flagrant lie from a transitional government (which, I must say the West seem 'happy' to brush over) and a military 'crackdown' with them deciding on whether there will be an autopsy or not (when the government said there would). So basically lies and deceit from the start. Not a good omen.

mickeyrat

redrock wrote:

puremagic wrote:

....if the faces of these protesters for democracy are the future faces of terrorists when all the promises are broken or fail. When things don't change, when they realize their leadership is just a puppet of the West and they are still unemployed, still hungry, still on a watch list, still Third World, still Muslim.

What troubled me greatly is the manner of Gaddafi's death - captured then beaten, manhandled, humiliated, dragged through the streets, executed with a bullet in the head - and the response from the NTC. Whilst videos and photos taken by the rebel forces and others clearly show what happened, the NTC still maintain that he got 'caught in crossfire' and, contrary to what they said (ie there will be an autopsy to determine cause of death - at the appeal of human rights groups and a few governments), now the military council is saying no autopsy will take place - now or ever.

So when it comes to Gaddafi, I go by the old adage 'live by the sword, die by the sword' but I am very sad at the way this was handled. A new society supposedly there for democracy, law & order and transparency start off with a flagrant act of breach of human rights (which some may say Gaddafi wasn't entitled to anything(, a flagrant lie from a transitional government (which, I must say the West seem 'happy' to brush over) and a military 'crackdown' with them deciding on whether there will be an autopsy or not (when the government said there would). So basically lies and deceit from the start. Not a good omen.

I'm sorry, it seems more than a little naive to think that after 40+ yrs of oppression that the common man on the street would treat him with any kind of civility by OUR definition. What we saw was more in line with mob mentality in addition to culturally ingrained insults shown to an enemy.

redrock

mickeyrat wrote:

I'm sorry, it seems more than a little naive to think that after 40+ yrs of oppression that the common man on the street would treat him with any kind of civility by OUR definition. What we saw was more in line with mob mentality in addition to culturally ingrained insults shown to an enemy.

As I said in another post, I really didn't think he would have been treated differently by the rebels if captured alive - so no naivety there. What troubles me is the 'political' side of this and the response/lies/attempt at cover up from the NTC and the military dictating certain things to the NTC. Again - lies and deceit from the start from a transitional government priding themselves on being democratic and transparent.

Just wondering if Libya is just going to be another Egypt where, since the revolution and removing Mubarak from power, the 'temporary' military council is still there, no elections yet as promised and the military saying they now intend to retain full control of the government even after the election of a new parliament. Lies and deceit from the start as well.

mickeyrat

redrock wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

I'm sorry, it seems more than a little naive to think that after 40+ yrs of oppression that the common man on the street would treat him with any kind of civility by OUR definition. What we saw was more in line with mob mentality in addition to culturally ingrained insults shown to an enemy.

As I said in another post, I really didn't think he would have been treated differently by the rebels if captured alive - so no naivety there. What troubles me is the 'political' side of this and the response/lies/attempt at cover up from the NTC and the military dictating certain things to the NTC. Again - lies and deceit from the start from a transitional government priding themselves on being democratic and transparent.

Just wondering if Libya is just going to be another Egypt where, since the revolution and removing Mubarak from power, the 'temporary' military council is still there, no elections yet as promised and the military saying they now intend to retain full control of the government even after the election of a new parliament. Lies and deceit from the start as well.

If they are using the US and British Gov as models, of course there will be lies, etc..... NOTHING should surprise from government unless its fair, evenhanded, and makes total sense. Otherwise its business as we know it.