One thing lost in all this. The entire Phoenix market is spread out. If the arena was put in downtown, there would be people saying why put it there...the money is in the suburbs. I mean it's not uncommon to have a 100 mile round trip commute each day to work there.
Absolutely true DS --> the market is spread ALL over the map there...PLUS lets face it, build a winner, people will come, look at the playoffs - the "white out" was so cool...a few years ago the Cards had a tough time GIVING seats away to a Falcons playoff game...prices also have a lot to do with it...hockey is too expensive (imo) especially for 40+ home gms - I have 3 kids, no way I could afford season tix...
UPS used to have trouble giving away weeknight games - BOX seats at that...
Lots of guys I worked with had trips of upwards of 100 miles round trip - I lived 32 miles from driveway to driveway and it took me 90 mins each way to get to work :x
I believe we will see a Toronto II, Seattle, and Quebec City. I think there will be 1 more relocation and 2 expansion
Doubt you'll see another team in Toronto...the leafs are territorial...I think they could pretty much demand whatever fee they want from any team wanting to set up shop within their territory.
Yeah, especially after seeing Bettman cock-blocked the Blackberry dude who was willing to pay whatever it took to buy the Yotes and move them to Hamilton. The Maple Leafs had to have been putting heavy pressure on Bettman. Now all the owners have to help pay to run the team that nobody can buy.
One thing lost in all this. The entire Phoenix market is spread out. If the arena was put in downtown, there would be people saying why put it there...the money is in the suburbs. I mean it's not uncommon to have a 100 mile round trip commute each day to work there.
Absolutely true DS --> the market is spread ALL over the map there...PLUS lets face it, build a winner, people will come, look at the playoffs - the "white out" was so cool...a few years ago the Cards had a tough time GIVING seats away to a Falcons playoff game...prices also have a lot to do with it...hockey is too expensive (imo) especially for 40+ home gms - I have 3 kids, no way I could afford season tix...
UPS used to have trouble giving away weeknight games - BOX seats at that... Lots of guys I worked with had trips of upwards of 100 miles round trip - I lived 32 miles from driveway to driveway and it took me 90 mins each way to get to work :x
You really couldn't pay me enough to work a job where I had a 90 minute commute. :shock:
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
One thing lost in all this. The entire Phoenix market is spread out. If the arena was put in downtown, there would be people saying why put it there...the money is in the suburbs. I mean it's not uncommon to have a 100 mile round trip commute each day to work there.
Absolutely true DS --> the market is spread ALL over the map there...PLUS lets face it, build a winner, people will come, look at the playoffs - the "white out" was so cool...a few years ago the Cards had a tough time GIVING seats away to a Falcons playoff game...prices also have a lot to do with it...hockey is too expensive (imo) especially for 40+ home gms - I have 3 kids, no way I could afford season tix...
UPS used to have trouble giving away weeknight games - BOX seats at that... Lots of guys I worked with had trips of upwards of 100 miles round trip - I lived 32 miles from driveway to driveway and it took me 90 mins each way to get to work :x
You really couldn't pay me enough to work a job where I had a 90 minute commute. :shock:
I know a couple out there who had an 80 mile trip one way everyday in Phoenix. :shock: They did this for almost three years. It was one of those "created communities" they stuck out in the middle of nowhere when anyone with a pulse could buy a new house. They short saled the home and now live in CHandler.
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE can we haz hockey this season?
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
From the NY Post's Larry Brooks:
"The NHL's message to Rangers fans/ticket-buyers:We want more of your money in Jim Dolan's pockets and less in Henrik Lundqvist's."
:evil:
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
I just wonder how long before the NHL starts looking at ownership in Quebec or Seattle?
I think Seattle is interesting. I don't know enough about Quebec City, but Seattle has the corporate climate for a team to be successful. It's not just about rabid fans, it's more about corporate money, and a concrete plan.
Look at Winnipeg, it took them a while, but they had a good arena, and spent years cultivating business support, and had good management in place.
Quebec City is in the early stages of arena development. Back in the 80's Montreal and Quebec was the best rivalry in all of hockey and right up there in all of sports.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I believe we will see a Toronto II, Seattle, and Quebec City. I think there will be 1 more relocation and 2 expansion
Doubt you'll see another team in Toronto...the leafs are territorial...I think they could pretty much demand whatever fee they want from any team wanting to set up shop within their territory.
Yeah, especially after seeing Bettman cock-blocked the Blackberry dude who was willing to pay whatever it took to buy the Yotes and move them to Hamilton. The Maple Leafs had to have been putting heavy pressure on Bettman. Now all the owners have to help pay to run the team that nobody can buy.
Not just Toronto...Buffalo didn't want a team in Hamilton either. Don Cherry did a good coach's corner on It and he said "Mr. Blacberry dude would never get a team because of his approach". Cherry said to get a team you need to work behind the scenes...kinda like the new owners of Winnepeg did.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
The lock out will be over by Christmas. I can't see the NHL scraping the winter classic...at the big house and all that money.
It's still bullshit. Four work stoppages since '92 bullshit just bullshit.
What choice did the NHL have other than lock them out. They couldn't let them play and then risk them going on strike right before the playoffs. Didn't baseball players do this when Donald Fehr was the head of baseball union. Do the players not realize Bettman knows this?
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
i think so far, the players are "winning" the public perception value ... heard on the cbc today about a rumour that their are owners who aren't interested in negotiating anything and that this is simply an exercise in busting the union ... it has nothing to do with what is fair ...
i think so far, the players are "winning" the public perception value ... heard on the cbc today about a rumour that their are owners who aren't interested in negotiating anything and that this is simply an exercise in busting the union ... it has nothing to do with what is fair ...
I'm not going to fall for the PR bullshit. Both sides are greedy. We're not talking about CAW negotiating with the Detroit 3. It's millionaires bickering with billionaires...ridiculous.
The one thing I would like to know is the players want to share the revenue? Correct? Now is that gross? or net?
I never hear the players say we want to share the revenue but if our teams loses 15 million we'll share in the loss's.
Thats the problem with these athletes...they want none of the risk...nothing hardly ever happens to these teams when they lose money...players aren't laid off! the owner just keeps accumulating loss after loss.
Then when I hear some of these players talk about HAVING to take jobs in Europe! really what'd you do with the millions from previous seasons...just a bunch of babies.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Thats the problem with these athletes...they want none of the risk...nothing hardly ever happens to these teams when they lose money...players aren't laid off! the owner just keeps accumulating loss after loss.
Why should the players have to take the risk? They aren't the ones that own the team. Owning a team comes with risk, obviously. It seems that owners want a system where they are all guaranteed to make money and it shouldn't be that way.
I never hear the players say we want to share the revenue but if our teams loses 15 million we'll share in the loss's.
Thats the problem with these athletes...they want none of the risk...nothing hardly ever happens to these teams when they lose money...players aren't laid off! the owner just keeps accumulating loss after loss.
Then when I hear some of these players talk about HAVING to take jobs in Europe! really what'd you do with the millions from previous seasons...just a bunch of babies.
uhhhh ... your argument is based strictly on issues that have no relevance ... it doesn't matter that they make $500,000 or $5 million a year ...
what the nhl is asking for is an economic situation where EVERY team makes money but some teams will make A LOT more ... it's the owners that aren't interested in helping the struggling teams/markets ... why don't they revenue share?
how would you feel if i paid you $100,000 a year to play hockey but then use your image and celebrity and your skill to make $5 billion? ... yeah, these guys make a lot of money but does it void their right to an equitable share of the revenue!? ... people don't pay to watch cheerleaders or jumbotron trivia ... they pay to watch the players ...
Thats the problem with these athletes...they want none of the risk...nothing hardly ever happens to these teams when they lose money...players aren't laid off! the owner just keeps accumulating loss after loss.
Why should the players have to take the risk? They aren't the ones that own the team. Owning a team comes with risk, obviously. It seems that owners want a system where they are all guaranteed to make money and it shouldn't be that way.
Then why should they even be entitled to a 50-50 spit of the revenue or guaranteed any percentage of the revenue. I'm pretty sure the average joe working at ford or chrysler isn't guaranteed a percentage of the revenue...but they share in the risk...its called being laid off if your product doesn't sell and make money.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I never hear the players say we want to share the revenue but if our teams loses 15 million we'll share in the loss's.
Thats the problem with these athletes...they want none of the risk...nothing hardly ever happens to these teams when they lose money...players aren't laid off! the owner just keeps accumulating loss after loss.
Then when I hear some of these players talk about HAVING to take jobs in Europe! really what'd you do with the millions from previous seasons...just a bunch of babies.
uhhhh ... your argument is based strictly on issues that have no relevance ... it doesn't matter that they make $500,000 or $5 million a year ...
what the nhl is asking for is an economic situation where EVERY team makes money but some teams will make A LOT more ... it's the owners that aren't interested in helping the struggling teams/markets ... why don't they revenue share?
how would you feel if i paid you $100,000 a year to play hockey but then use your image and celebrity and your skill to make $5 billion? ... yeah, these guys make a lot of money but does it void their right to an equitable share of the revenue!? ... people don't pay to watch cheerleaders or jumbotron trivia ... they pay to watch the players ...
then why not some of the risk? seriously! do the owners make money off the players endorsements? Or just having the player suit up and play off ticket sales and all that jazz?
Also when are people going to realize that hockey will not make money for the majority of teams. Hockey has no big TV contract like the other big sports. I thought they had revenue sharing in place?
And business makes billions off people everyday and most of them don't share in revenue or hardly even acknowledged. Look at the autoworkers who sacrificed and gave concessions to help their companies.
Sorry they are millionaires bickering with billionaires. Until I see the players wanting to take some risk...neither side gets my sympathy. It doesn't have to be sharing the loss's maybe...it could be as simple as getting rid of guaranteed contracts...the players need to show me something as well.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
then why not some of the risk? seriously! do the owners make money off the players endorsements? Or just having the player suit up and play off ticket sales and all that jazz?
Also when are people going to realize that hockey will not make money for the majority of teams. Hockey has no big TV contract like the other big sports. I thought they had revenue sharing in place?
And business makes billions off people everyday and most of them don't share in revenue or hardly even acknowledged. Look at the autoworkers who sacrificed and gave concessions to help their companies.
Sorry they are millionaires bickering with billionaires. Until I see the players wanting to take some risk...neither side gets my sympathy. It doesn't have to be sharing the loss's maybe...it could be as simple as getting rid of guaranteed contracts...the players need to show me something as well.
uhhh ... they do take the risk - hence the revenue splits ... that means that if revenue is low, the players get less ... how is that not taking any risk?
at issue here at the end of the day is how do we keep nhl hockey going? ... for the fans and for the people who depend on it for their livelihood ...
option 1: players concede everything and owners get their way
option 2: nhl and nhlpa negotiate in good faith and settle on a fair deal
then why not some of the risk? seriously! do the owners make money off the players endorsements? Or just having the player suit up and play off ticket sales and all that jazz?
Also when are people going to realize that hockey will not make money for the majority of teams. Hockey has no big TV contract like the other big sports. I thought they had revenue sharing in place?
And business makes billions off people everyday and most of them don't share in revenue or hardly even acknowledged. Look at the autoworkers who sacrificed and gave concessions to help their companies.
Sorry they are millionaires bickering with billionaires. Until I see the players wanting to take some risk...neither side gets my sympathy. It doesn't have to be sharing the loss's maybe...it could be as simple as getting rid of guaranteed contracts...the players need to show me something as well.
uhhh ... they do take the risk - hence the revenue splits ... that means that if revenue is low, the players get less ... how is that not taking any risk?
at issue here at the end of the day is how do we keep nhl hockey going? ... for the fans and for the people who depend on it for their livelihood ...
option 1: players concede everything and owners get their way
option 2: nhl and nhlpa negotiate in good faith and settle on a fair deal
I don't care if hockey started until the playoffs myself. But since your a leafs fan I can see why that could be a problem . Is that gross revenue? or net revenue?
Well I haven't seen any owners proposal that asking the players to work for minimum wage.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't care if hockey started until the playoffs myself. But since your a leafs fan I can see why that could be a problem . Is that gross revenue? or net revenue?
Well I haven't seen any owners proposal that asking the players to work for minimum wage.
hey ... no need to go there ... ... leaf fans should be treated like the animals you see on humane society infomercials! ... we should be pitied!
either way - there is a reason why the majority are favouring the players now ...
I don't care if hockey started until the playoffs myself. But since your a leafs fan I can see why that could be a problem . Is that gross revenue? or net revenue?
Well I haven't seen any owners proposal that asking the players to work for minimum wage.
hey ... no need to go there ... ... leaf fans should be treated like the animals you see on humane society infomercials! ... we should be pitied!
either way - there is a reason why the majority are favouring the players now ...
I have no sympathy for either...like I said millionaires bickering with billionaires...both sides are pathetic...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
UPS used to have trouble giving away weeknight games - BOX seats at that...
Lots of guys I worked with had trips of upwards of 100 miles round trip - I lived 32 miles from driveway to driveway and it took me 90 mins each way to get to work :x
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
You really couldn't pay me enough to work a job where I had a 90 minute commute. :shock:
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I know a couple out there who had an 80 mile trip one way everyday in Phoenix.
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE can we haz hockey this season?
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
early 90's. MEMORIES.
bet those players would play for free. SIGN THEM UP!
Ft Worth 9-15-23
Hartford 5-13-06, 6-27-08, 10-25-13
Mansfield, MA 6-30-08, 6-28-08, 7-2-03, 7-3-03, 7-11-03, 8-29-00, 8-30-00, 9-15-98, 9-16-98
Worcester 10-15-13, 10-16-13
yep posted it a few pages ago
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=172195&start=180#p4629654
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8386847/evgeni-malkin-pittsburgh-penguins-sergei-gonchar-ottawa-senators-join-khl-mettalurg-russia
"The NHL's message to Rangers fans/ticket-buyers:We want more of your money in Jim Dolan's pockets and less in Henrik Lundqvist's."
:evil:
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
green di$ea$e fuckers
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=641584&navid=DL|NHL|home
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
Quebec City is in the early stages of arena development. Back in the 80's Montreal and Quebec was the best rivalry in all of hockey and right up there in all of sports.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Not just Toronto...Buffalo didn't want a team in Hamilton either. Don Cherry did a good coach's corner on It and he said "Mr. Blacberry dude would never get a team because of his approach". Cherry said to get a team you need to work behind the scenes...kinda like the new owners of Winnepeg did.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It's still bullshit. Four work stoppages since '92 bullshit just bullshit.
What choice did the NHL have other than lock them out. They couldn't let them play and then risk them going on strike right before the playoffs. Didn't baseball players do this when Donald Fehr was the head of baseball union. Do the players not realize Bettman knows this?
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCW0VsfR9FM
Owners
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6415 ... L|NHL|home
i think so far, the players are "winning" the public perception value ... heard on the cbc today about a rumour that their are owners who aren't interested in negotiating anything and that this is simply an exercise in busting the union ... it has nothing to do with what is fair ...
I'm not going to fall for the PR bullshit. Both sides are greedy. We're not talking about CAW negotiating with the Detroit 3. It's millionaires bickering with billionaires...ridiculous.
The one thing I would like to know is the players want to share the revenue? Correct? Now is that gross? or net?
I never hear the players say we want to share the revenue but if our teams loses 15 million we'll share in the loss's.
Thats the problem with these athletes...they want none of the risk...nothing hardly ever happens to these teams when they lose money...players aren't laid off! the owner just keeps accumulating loss after loss.
Then when I hear some of these players talk about HAVING to take jobs in Europe! really what'd you do with the millions from previous seasons...just a bunch of babies.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Why should the players have to take the risk? They aren't the ones that own the team. Owning a team comes with risk, obviously. It seems that owners want a system where they are all guaranteed to make money and it shouldn't be that way.
uhhhh ... your argument is based strictly on issues that have no relevance ... it doesn't matter that they make $500,000 or $5 million a year ...
what the nhl is asking for is an economic situation where EVERY team makes money but some teams will make A LOT more ... it's the owners that aren't interested in helping the struggling teams/markets ... why don't they revenue share?
how would you feel if i paid you $100,000 a year to play hockey but then use your image and celebrity and your skill to make $5 billion? ... yeah, these guys make a lot of money but does it void their right to an equitable share of the revenue!? ... people don't pay to watch cheerleaders or jumbotron trivia ... they pay to watch the players ...
Then why should they even be entitled to a 50-50 spit of the revenue or guaranteed any percentage of the revenue. I'm pretty sure the average joe working at ford or chrysler isn't guaranteed a percentage of the revenue...but they share in the risk...its called being laid off if your product doesn't sell and make money.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
then why not some of the risk? seriously! do the owners make money off the players endorsements? Or just having the player suit up and play off ticket sales and all that jazz?
Also when are people going to realize that hockey will not make money for the majority of teams. Hockey has no big TV contract like the other big sports. I thought they had revenue sharing in place?
And business makes billions off people everyday and most of them don't share in revenue or hardly even acknowledged. Look at the autoworkers who sacrificed and gave concessions to help their companies.
Sorry they are millionaires bickering with billionaires. Until I see the players wanting to take some risk...neither side gets my sympathy. It doesn't have to be sharing the loss's maybe...it could be as simple as getting rid of guaranteed contracts...the players need to show me something as well.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
uhhh ... they do take the risk - hence the revenue splits ... that means that if revenue is low, the players get less ... how is that not taking any risk?
at issue here at the end of the day is how do we keep nhl hockey going? ... for the fans and for the people who depend on it for their livelihood ...
option 1: players concede everything and owners get their way
option 2: nhl and nhlpa negotiate in good faith and settle on a fair deal
I don't care if hockey started until the playoffs myself. But since your a leafs fan I can see why that could be a problem
Well I haven't seen any owners proposal that asking the players to work for minimum wage.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
hey ... no need to go there ...
either way - there is a reason why the majority are favouring the players now ...
I have no sympathy for either...like I said millionaires bickering with billionaires...both sides are pathetic...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon