Jalen Rose calls Duke kids "Uncle Tom's"

RW81233

mikepegg44 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

so when was the last time that grant hill sent a letter to a media member that loved duke and the upper-class whiteness they exude to stop giving them undeserved love? or is he just a guy who grew up in a rich family unwilling to recognize the unearned privilege he was bestowed? grant hill may actually be worse than an uncle tom...he might be a rich guy who doesn't get it. at the same time jalen rose was definitely essentializing blackness with his comments so that doesn't make him right either. however, if i were to side with either it would be with j-rose over hill and the "plumlee boys" who were prolly dick cheyney's neighbors or something.

I am not sure what you mean by upper-class whiteness? can you quantify that for me?

The idea that someone is turning their back on their race because they come from a two parent home and choose to work hard at their education at a university like Duke is obnoxious and damaging to future generations. Can you explain why you think Grant Hill is worse than an Uncle Tom? What do you think he doesn't get? Is he rich, yes, did he take advantage of what his parents helped him achieve? yes. What is wrong with that? there is so much wasted potential in this world, why would we ever want to denigrate someone for living up to theirs?

upper-class whiteness is not a "quantifiable" thing per se, but basically it's basically a general mindset and set of behaviors that reflects those that come from power and privilege in our society. I didn't say that I agreed with what J-Rose said when he called Hill an uncle tom, because that would do what you are claim I am doing. What I am positing is that in his self-defense letter to Rose, Hill failed to demonstrate any understanding of why someone like Rose would despise Duke. Duke players, fans, and coach gets heaped with praise that they don't really deserve year after year, and I've never heard him complain once about that. So he gets all the privilege, which is fine, but when he gets called out on it he goes and talks about some bullshit (yes I know it's real) story about his grandfather doing things so that we now have to feel bad for him b/c someone basically called him out (however crudely) on it. Thus, I agree with you partially, in that we should celebrate the fact that Hill was able to use his talents and privilege to his advantage. However, and without having to necessarily appologize for it, Hill should also recognize that having that privilege gave him an easier life than what others had. With his private school education he should have been able to respond in that way.

Also for a primer on upper-class whiteness check the letter than a Duke student once sent to Elton Brand http://www.aseaofblue.com/2007/6/7/102426/5876:
From: Taylor, Jennifer
Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 2:55 PM
To: Brand, Elton
Subject: Leaving Duke

I graduated from Duke last May and just wanted to express my disgust for your decision to leave the Duke program after only two years. As an alum, not only do I hold the school in high regard, but the basketball program as well, especially since both have deservedly garnered such a great deal of respect for their accomplishments.

As part of our basketball program, you represent Duke as a whole. We are first and foremost an academic school, you clearly did not belong at Duke in the first place if this was the extent of your commitment to Duke and a college education in general. You have not only insulted the current students who are putting in four years at a school they love, but also the thousands of alumni who have realized the value of a Duke education and what an honor and privilege it was to be there for four years.

If you do not realize the opportunity you has infront of you to play for Coach K and at the same time attain a Duke diploma, then that is certainly your loss. I just wish that you has spared us the notion that you were continuing in the tradition of being a Duke student-athlete, in emphasizing excellence in both academics and athletics. You will not be considered part of the Duke family, in my mind as well as many others. You have by no means proved yourself worthy of that title.

Sincerely,
Jennifer Taylor

From: Elton Tyron Brand
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 8:05 PM
To: Taylor, Jennifer
Subject: Re: Leaving Duke

Thank you very much, for reminding me of the reason why I left Duke. People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation. I'm sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college. While real people struggle. I would also like to extend an invitation for you not to waste your or my time ever again. Never being considered a part of your posh group of yuppies really hurts me to the heart. Yeah, right. Because I don't care about you or your alumni.

Sincerely,
Elton Brand #42 NBA

eddiec

RW81233 wrote:

From: Elton Tyron Brand
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 8:05 PM
To: Taylor, Jennifer
Subject: Re: Leaving Duke

Thank you very much, for reminding me of the reason why I left Duke. People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation. I'm sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college. While real people struggle. I would also like to extend an invitation for you not to waste your or my time ever again. Never being considered a part of your posh group of yuppies really hurts me to the heart. Yeah, right. Because I don't care about you or your alumni.

Sincerely,
Elton Brand #42 NBA

And now Elton Brand is rich. And his children will be rich. And with NBA salaries as they are his grandchildren will be rich. A family’s money starts with one person making a lot of money. In Elton Brand’s case he is the first one to supply the family with millions. Now his children come from money just as many of the Duke students he criticizes. Yes, Jennifer Taylor’s letter was over the top and ridiculous but is she necessarily rich or come from money? Clearly the girl loves Duke basketball a bit too much and is taking out her frustrations on Elton Brand because he was among the first to leave Duke for the NBA. That’s what happens these days and she has to accept it. She shouldn’t blame Elton Brand but the system instead. But his response lacked any class.

“People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation”

Whatever Elton Brand went through in life had no bearing on his becoming a millionaire. He is a millionaire because he was born with an athletic ability that allowed him to become a player in the NBA. His family background, his struggles, his misfortunes- they have no impact on his wealth. In fact he didn’t have to work hard to become rich.

"I'm sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college."

Instead he is one of the fortunate few who had the skills and athletic ability to compete at that level. He did what all athletes do and that’s play the game. He didn’t try harder then the guy sitting on the bench on his upstate NY high school basketball team. He was just better.

Elton Brand and Jalen Rose are very similar. Both their kids will be raised privileged and rich and will have the opportunities of the “Duke” students they criticize so much. Yet neither of them seems to grasp this or admit this. Hopefully they will do what parents are supposed to do- provide their children with the opportunities to make something of themselves. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. Is that what parents are supposed to do for their children regardless of economic background? Yes. When Jalen Rose realizes that he will become a mature adult.

g under p

RW81233 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I am not sure what you mean by upper-class whiteness? can you quantify that for me?

The idea that someone is turning their back on their race because they come from a two parent home and choose to work hard at their education at a university like Duke is obnoxious and damaging to future generations. Can you explain why you think Grant Hill is worse than an Uncle Tom? What do you think he doesn't get? Is he rich, yes, did he take advantage of what his parents helped him achieve? yes. What is wrong with that? there is so much wasted potential in this world, why would we ever want to denigrate someone for living up to theirs?

upper-class whiteness is not a "quantifiable" thing per se, but basically it's basically a general mindset and set of behaviors that reflects those that come from power and privilege in our society. I didn't say that I agreed with what J-Rose said when he called Hill an uncle tom, because that would do what you are claim I am doing. What I am positing is that in his self-defense letter to Rose, Hill failed to demonstrate any understanding of why someone like Rose would despise Duke. Duke players, fans, and coach gets heaped with praise that they don't really deserve year after year, and I've never heard him complain once about that. So he gets all the privilege, which is fine, but when he gets called out on it he goes and talks about some bullshit (yes I know it's real) story about his grandfather doing things so that we now have to feel bad for him b/c someone basically called him out (however crudely) on it. Thus, I agree with you partially, in that we should celebrate the fact that Hill was able to use his talents and privilege to his advantage. However, and without having to necessarily appologize for it, Hill should also recognize that having that privilege gave him an easier life than what others had. With his private school education he should have been able to respond in that way.

Also for a primer on upper-class whiteness check the letter than a Duke student once sent to Elton Brand http://www.aseaofblue.com/2007/6/7/102426/5876:
From: Taylor, Jennifer
Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 2:55 PM
To: Brand, Elton
Subject: Leaving Duke

I graduated from Duke last May and just wanted to express my disgust for your decision to leave the Duke program after only two years. As an alum, not only do I hold the school in high regard, but the basketball program as well, especially since both have deservedly garnered such a great deal of respect for their accomplishments.

As part of our basketball program, you represent Duke as a whole. We are first and foremost an academic school, you clearly did not belong at Duke in the first place if this was the extent of your commitment to Duke and a college education in general. You have not only insulted the current students who are putting in four years at a school they love, but also the thousands of alumni who have realized the value of a Duke education and what an honor and privilege it was to be there for four years.

If you do not realize the opportunity you has infront of you to play for Coach K and at the same time attain a Duke diploma, then that is certainly your loss. I just wish that you has spared us the notion that you were continuing in the tradition of being a Duke student-athlete, in emphasizing excellence in both academics and athletics. You will not be considered part of the Duke family, in my mind as well as many others. You have by no means proved yourself worthy of that title.

Sincerely,
Jennifer Taylor

From: Elton Tyron Brand
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 8:05 PM
To: Taylor, Jennifer
Subject: Re: Leaving Duke

Thank you very much, for reminding me of the reason why I left Duke. People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation. I'm sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college. While real people struggle. I would also like to extend an invitation for you not to waste your or my time ever again. Never being considered a part of your posh group of yuppies really hurts me to the heart. Yeah, right. Because I don't care about you or your alumni.

Sincerely,
Elton Brand #42 NBA

What a croc.... JT She does understand and realize that Elon Brand after two years of school CAN come back to DUKE and and get that coveted degree, if she thought that getting that degree from DUKE was that vital. Why stay and risk injury IF you are going to be a high draft pick which EB turned out to be (#1 overall i believe). It appears she was more interested that he stayed for 4 years finish playing basketball and help DUKE to championships than to get that degree.

Elton Brand chose to do what was best for him at the time and leaving school after 2 years seemed to be the best decision. She should be happy he stayed for 2 years.

Peace

RW81233

eddiec wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

From: Elton Tyron Brand
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 8:05 PM
To: Taylor, Jennifer
Subject: Re: Leaving Duke

Thank you very much, for reminding me of the reason why I left Duke. People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation. I'm sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college. While real people struggle. I would also like to extend an invitation for you not to waste your or my time ever again. Never being considered a part of your posh group of yuppies really hurts me to the heart. Yeah, right. Because I don't care about you or your alumni.

Sincerely,
Elton Brand #42 NBA

And now Elton Brand is rich. And his children will be rich. And with NBA salaries as they are his grandchildren will be rich. A family’s money starts with one person making a lot of money. In Elton Brand’s case he is the first one to supply the family with millions. Now his children come from money just as many of the Duke students he criticizes. Yes, Jennifer Taylor’s letter was over the top and ridiculous but is she necessarily rich or come from money? Clearly the girl loves Duke basketball a bit too much and is taking out her frustrations on Elton Brand because he was among the first to leave Duke for the NBA. That’s what happens these days and she has to accept it. She shouldn’t blame Elton Brand but the system instead. But his response lacked any class.

“People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation”

Whatever Elton Brand went through in life had no bearing on his becoming a millionaire. He is a millionaire because he was born with an athletic ability that allowed him to become a player in the NBA. His family background, his struggles, his misfortunes- they have no impact on his wealth. In fact he didn’t have to work hard to become rich.

"I'm sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college."

Instead he is one of the fortunate few who had the skills and athletic ability to compete at that level. He did what all athletes do and that’s play the game. He didn’t try harder then the guy sitting on the bench on his upstate NY high school basketball team. He was just better.

Elton Brand and Jalen Rose are very similar. Both their kids will be raised privileged and rich and will have the opportunities of the “Duke” students they criticize so much. Yet neither of them seems to grasp this or admit this. Hopefully they will do what parents are supposed to do- provide their children with the opportunities to make something of themselves. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. Is that what parents are supposed to do for their children regardless of economic background? Yes. When Jalen Rose realizes that he will become a mature adult.

Wait a minute...you just said that his background, struggles, and misfortunes have no impact on his wealth, but then argued that his wealth will likely change the lifestyle of his children. These are contradictory arguments no? I mean what if Elton came from a better background and didn't want to use his athletic ability because he wanted to become a doctor, lawyer, or something else? Maybe he had to play basketball because the school system he was born into sucked, and he had a poor home life, or maybe he didn't. Sure he was lucky that he made it, and I think that's what he was arguing in his response. Additionally I don't think it's the opportunities that Duke kids generally get that they despise, it's the mindset that everyone has that type of life. I think the point here (and maybe Rose and Brand don't articulate it the way you would like) is that being rich is ok, but realize that you will be treated better and have better opportunities than others. If Rose and Brand raise their children that way then they will be better people than JT and others who think like her.

Callaway

Dudes a loser and a moron.




Jalen Rose Arrested On DUI Charge

http://www.ballerstatus.com/2011/03/30/ ... ui-charge/

Black73

Wink wrote:

Dudes a loser and a moron.




Jalen Rose Arrested On DUI Charge

http://www.ballerstatus.com/2011/03/30/ ... ui-charge/

Yup...open mouth, insert foot. I was just waiting for more good news to follow Jalen Rose!

RW81233

like the part where he was opening a charter school for underprivileged kids? or is that a free handout that poor kids shouldn't take?

p.s. getting a dui is stupid, but that wasn't the whole story

Boxes&Books

RW81233 wrote:

like the part where he was opening a charter school for underprivileged kids? or is that a free handout that poor kids shouldn't take?

- you've made some excellent points throughout the discussion.

:thumbup:

Black73

RW81233 wrote:

like the part where he was opening a charter school for underprivileged kids? or is that a free handout that poor kids shouldn't take?

p.s. getting a dui is stupid, but that wasn't the whole story

Let me again preface this by saying I have no love lost for Duke. R-Dubs, you're right - it's not the whole story. The whole story, in a nutshell, is this: Jalen Rose is a generous hypocrite.

He's generous because he's starting a charter school, and giving back to a very economically-depressed city. He's actually done the majority of this quietly, and has not sought public praise for doing so.

He's a hyprocrite because, although it's the goal of many great parents to provide opportunities for their children that weren't available for themselves, he's calling Grant Hill inflammatory names for taking advantage of the opportunities his father provided him. Rose is providing the same type of opportunities currently to his kids that Calvin Hill provided to Grant Hill. By Rose's actions, his kids are no different that Grant Hill...unless you consider that Grant Hill's parents' education and his own college academics are superior to those that Rose left behind to go to the NBA.

The DUI is just the tip of the iceberg. Someone as "smart" and "educated" and "well-spoken" and every other "nice" thing I've heard people say in trying to defend him) as Jalen Rose should have arranged for alternate transportation. I wonder if anyone would be defending him anymore if he'd killed someone through his selfish actions?

Bottom line: Jalen Rose should stop talking and man up.

Jason P

I think Jalen would have been better off describing them as a bunch of "Preppie Dickheads" instead of Uncle Toms. It's not racially sensitive and most Americans would nod in agreement.

Black73

Jason P wrote:

I think Jalen would have been better off describing them as a bunch of "Preppie Dickheads" instead of Uncle Toms. It's not racially sensitive and most Americans would nod in agreement.

+1

ajedigecko

is jalen an "uncle tom"....since he did not attend the inferior schools that recruited him?

hypothetical scenerio

wichita state:" hello jalen, can you play basketball for us?"

jalen: "no, i want to go to a better and well recognized program."

Cob

I think Jalen Rose wasn't to smart to make those comments about Duke, he should have just kept it to himself, HOWEVER, he clearly stated that that is how he felt AT THE TIME, when he was what a 19 year old kid???

As far as not seeing what the big deal is with the Fab Five because Ohio State and Indiana won regular season Big 10 titles those two years. Well let me see it wasn't Ohio State or Indiana playing in the championship games those two years, it was Michigan. It was a big deal at the time because the two years it was an all freshman and sophomore lineup that played in the championship game two years in a row, that was UNHEARD of back then as most teams that made deep runs in the NCAA Tourney back then were made up of mostly Juniors and Seniors.

I grew up in Houston and Phi Slama Jama was the original "Fab Five" they went to the Final Four 3 years in a row, 82. 83, 84, they also lost the title game 2 years in a row and never won the NCAA Championship, but let me tell you this they were one of the best teams around back then. They were more than just dunking like people think, you have to be good and win close games to go to 3 straight Final Four's, even back then in the 80's that WASN'T and easy task.

As for people leaving Duke early like Elton Brand, Corey Maggette was the first I could remember, Coach K had a choice, recruit these type of players for Duke, or get left behind by other programs, he saw the writing on the wall and mad his choice. So for someone to write a letter to Elton Brand and tell him people like him "never really belonged" at Duke is a joke, I'm sure the girl was cheering for him as much as anyone when he was there.

It's just like people that say, these kids need to stay in school and get their education before going pro, then someone like the QB at Stanford, Luck, stays in school and those same people are saying, "what an idiot" to leave all that money on the table and not go pro, you can't have it both ways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-zZNDd ... re=related

Mariamaniatis

I like Jalen. I think he is actually a pretty insightful guy. He was just being honest about what they felt and made it clear it was how they felt at the time. Whats the big deal? I doubt there's too many African Americans weighing in on this particular subject here, so who are we to Judge?

Black73

Mariamaniatis wrote:

I like Jalen. I think he is actually a pretty insightful guy. He was just being honest about what they felt and made it clear it was how they felt at the time. Whats the big deal? I doubt there's too many African Americans weighing in on this particular subject here, so who are we to Judge?

A) Jalen Rose is a hypocrite.
Jalen Rose is a public figure, magnifying his hypocrisy
C) Jalen Rose's current job is to judge others...does that make him immune to judgment?

As one who despises everything the Flab Five stand/stood for, I can honestly say I thought the documentary was very well constructed. The only thing that would have made it better: a tasteful perspective of what these kids thought of a superior Duke program (and as stated in an earlier post, I have no love lost for Duke either).

If Jalen Rose (and Jimmy King for that matter) thought "at the time" a certain way about Grant Hill and Duke, why not man up and tell him man to man "I used to think you were this-or-that" instead of telling the nation when your documentary debuts? As Grant Hill said in his letter, he should have known something was up when Jimmy King called him a few days before the airing to apologize. Clearly King didn't man up when he had the chance, and I don't think Rose has manned up either.

cincybearcat

Bottom line....Duke sucks. End of story.

Black73

cincybearcat wrote:

Bottom line....Duke sucks. End of story.

Don't forget Michigan...they suck too!