10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You to Know About Reagan
Pepe Silvia
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http://www.alternet.org/story/149812/10 ... ut_reagan/
10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You to Know About Reagan
The image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to unite the various factions of the right behind a common leader.
Sunday marked the 100th anniversary of President Reagan’s birth, and all week, conservatives tried to outdo each others’ remembrances of the great conservative icon. Senate Republicans spent much of Thursday singing Reagan’s praise from the Senate floor, while conservative publications have been running non-stop commemorations. Meanwhile, the Republican National Committee and former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich are hoping to make a few bucks off the Gipper’s centennial.
But Reagan was not the man conservatives claim he was. This image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to unite the various factions of the right behind a common leader. In reality, Reagan was no conservative ideologue or flawless commander-in-chief. Reagan regularly strayed from conservative dogma — he raised taxes eleven times as president while tripling the deficit — and he often ended up on the wrong side of history, like when he vetoed an Anti-Apartheid bill.
ThinkProgress has compiled a list of the top 10 things conservatives rarely mention when talking about President Reagan:
1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.
2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.
3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.
4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.
5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.
6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.
7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.
8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.
9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy. When liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, “Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes?“
10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You to Know About Reagan
The image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to unite the various factions of the right behind a common leader.
Sunday marked the 100th anniversary of President Reagan’s birth, and all week, conservatives tried to outdo each others’ remembrances of the great conservative icon. Senate Republicans spent much of Thursday singing Reagan’s praise from the Senate floor, while conservative publications have been running non-stop commemorations. Meanwhile, the Republican National Committee and former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich are hoping to make a few bucks off the Gipper’s centennial.
But Reagan was not the man conservatives claim he was. This image of Reagan as a conservative superhero is myth, created to unite the various factions of the right behind a common leader. In reality, Reagan was no conservative ideologue or flawless commander-in-chief. Reagan regularly strayed from conservative dogma — he raised taxes eleven times as president while tripling the deficit — and he often ended up on the wrong side of history, like when he vetoed an Anti-Apartheid bill.
ThinkProgress has compiled a list of the top 10 things conservatives rarely mention when talking about President Reagan:
1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.
2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.
3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.
4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.
5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.
6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.
7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.
8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.
9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy. When liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, “Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes?“
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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If a few of these points are considered to be bad, Obama has done them as well...so who is right and wrong?0
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jg1988 wrote:If a few of these points are considered to be bad, Obama has done them as well...so who is right and wrong?
They are only "bad" because they go against the whole mythical image that the right wingers have created about Reagan.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
:roll: Gee you think you could find a more biased website than think progress ? Look Regan wasn't perfect by any means. Did he make mistakes ? Yes, doesn't every president ? Im going to take the time and research every one of those examples and I wouldn't be suprised if there was a good reason he did what he did. And I wouldn't be suprised if any of these examples listed are not the whole story or simply just not true.
#10 just for starters..
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
So where's the part where Charlie Wilson and the CIA was the driving force behind arming the Afghans against the Soviets? Also aid started in 1979 when Jimmy Carter was in office . Regan's term started in 81 and it was a D. controlled office So what is it, Wilson (Democrat) good, Regan (Republican) bad ? Not only that I think the Soviets withdrew in 1989....Taliban didn't become active until at least five years later. And who wouldn't agree that we saved thousands of lives by giving the Mujahadeen surface to air missles so they could take out Russian helicopters
This is nothing more than half truths. It's what the left does best.
I wonder... When it's B.J. Clintons Birthday will thinkprogress mention how OBL got away leading up to 911 :think:0 -
Dudes dead, I don't care.I'll be back0
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Nothingman54 wrote:Dudes dead, I don't care.
Well that's one way of looking at it,but it's typical of the far left. They are always trying to distort history or simply choose to ignore it.0 -
jg1988 wrote:If a few of these points are considered to be bad, Obama has done them as well...so who is right and wrong?
Why make this a Reagan/Obama thing? Why can't we just look at the article presented and discuss it.
Stupid, stupid society we live in, trapped into the mindless, unintelligent, lazy, idiotic binary mode of thinking.Post edited by whygohome on0 -
prfctlefts wrote::roll: Gee you think you could find a more biased website than think progress ? Look Regan wasn't perfect by any means. Did he make mistakes ? Yes, doesn't every president ? Im going to take the time and research every one of those examples and I wouldn't be suprised if there was a good reason he did what he did. And I wouldn't be suprised if any of these examples listed are not the whole story or simply just not true.
#10 just for starters..
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
So where's the part where Charlie Wilson and the CIA was the driving force behind arming the Afghans against the Soviets? Also aid started in 1979 when Jimmy Carter was in office . Regan's term started in 81 and it was a D. controlled office So what is it, Wilson (Democrat) good, Regan (Republican) bad ? Not only that I think the Soviets withdrew in 1989....Taliban didn't become active until at least five years later. And who wouldn't agree that we saved thousands of lives by giving the Mujahadeen surface to air missles so they could take out Russian helicopters
This is nothing more than half truths. It's what the left does best.
I wonder... When it's B.J. Clintons Birthday will thinkprogress mention how OBL got away leading up to 911 :think:
Why make this a Left/right thing? Why can't we just look at the article presented and discuss it.
And I repeat, we are a stupid, stupid society; we are trapped into the mindless, unintelligent, lazy, idiotic binary mode of thinking: left/right, dem/rep, lib/cons
People cling to political parties like they cling to religions. it is so sad....and stupid. We have a long way to go in this country0 -
prfctlefts wrote::roll: Gee you think you could find a more biased website than think progress ? Look Regan wasn't perfect by any means. Did he make mistakes ? Yes, doesn't every president ? Im going to take the time and research every one of those examples and I wouldn't be suprised if there was a good reason he did what he did. And I wouldn't be suprised if any of these examples listed are not the whole story or simply just not true.
#10 just for starters..
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
So where's the part where Charlie Wilson and the CIA was the driving force behind arming the Afghans against the Soviets? Also aid started in 1979 when Jimmy Carter was in office . Regan's term started in 81 and it was a D. controlled office So what is it, Wilson (Democrat) good, Regan (Republican) bad ? Not only that I think the Soviets withdrew in 1989....Taliban didn't become active until at least five years later.
This is nothing more than half truths. It's what the left does best.
I wonder... When it's B.J. Clintons Birthday will thinkprogress mention how OBL got away leading up to 911 :think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen ... nd_support
Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the Reagan Doctrine, which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet movements in Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, and elsewhere.[16] Ronald Reagan praised mujahideen as "freedom fighters".prfctlefts wrote:And who wouldn't agree that we saved thousands of lives by giving the Mujahadeen surface to air missles so they could take out Russian helicopters?
I wouldn't agree. If you'd just presented the facts instead of cherry-picking them then you'd have also mentioned that the U.S sought to provoke an invasion from the Soviets in the first place by supplying the opposition with arms and other supplies. In an interview with Carter's National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski 'he is quoted as saying that the US provided aid to the mujahideen prior to the Soviet invasion for the deliberate purpose of provoking one.'
Reagan increased the budget for support of the radical Muslim Mujahidin conducting terrorism against the leftist Afghanistan government to half a billion dollars a year.
One fifth of the money, which the CIA mostly turned over to Pakistani military intelligence to distribute, went to Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, a violent extremist who as a youth used to throw acid on the faces of unveiled girls in Afghanistan.
Not content with creating a vast terrorist network to harass the Soviets, Reagan then pressured the late King Fahd of Saudi Arabia to match US contributions. He had earlier imposed on Fahd to give money to the Contras in Nicaragua, some of which was used to create rightwing death squads. (Reagan liked to sidestep Congress in creating private terrorist organizations for his foreign policy purposes, which he branded “freedom fighters,” giving terrorists the idea that it was all right to inflict vast damage on civilians in order to achieve their goals).
Fahd was a timid man and resisted Reagan’s instructions briefly, but finally gave in to enormous US pressure.
Fahd not only put Saudi government money into the Afghan Mujahideen networks, which trained them in bomb making and guerrilla tactics, but he also instructed the Minister of Intelligence, Turki al-Faisal, to try to raise money from private sources.
Turki al-Faisal checked around and discovered that a young member of the fabulously wealthy Bin Laden construction dynasty, Usama, was committed to Islamic causes. Turki thus gave Usama the task of raising money from Gulf millionaires for the Afghan struggle. This whole effort was undertaken, remember, on Reagan Administration instructions.
Bin Laden not only raised millions for the effort, but helped encourage Arab volunteers to go fight for Reagan against the Soviets and the Afghan communists. The Arab volunteers included people like Ayman al-Zawahiri, a young physician who had been jailed for having been involved in the assassination of Egyptian president Anwar El-Sadat. Bin Laden kept a database of these volunteers. In Arabic the word for base is al-Qaeda.0 -
11. NAFTA was Reagan's Idea
The impetus for NAFTA actually began with President Ronald Regan, who campaigned on a North American common market. In 1984, Congress passed the Trade and Tariff Act. This is important because it gave the President "fast-track" authority to negotiate free trade agreements, while only allowing Congress the ability to approve or disapprove, not change negotiating points. Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney agreed with Reagan to begin negotiations for the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement, which was signed in 1988, went into effect in 1989 and is now suspended due to NAFTA.
(Source: NaFina, NAFTA Timeline)
http://useconomy.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=useconomy&cdn=newsissues&tm=144&gps=627_354_1192_628&f=00&su=p649.6.336.ip_&tt=11&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.fina-nafi.org/eng/integ/chronologie.asp%3Flangue%3Deng%26menu%3Dinteg
...
Ask Conservatives what they think about NAFTA. The answer is usually not in favor of it.
P.S. Signed by George H.W. Bush (August 1992)Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
...prfctlefts wrote::roll: Gee you think you could find a more biased website than think progress ? Look Regan wasn't perfect by any means. Did he make mistakes ? Yes, doesn't every president ? Im going to take the time and research every one of those examples and I wouldn't be suprised if there was a good reason he did what he did. And I wouldn't be suprised if any of these examples listed are not the whole story or simply just not true.
#10 just for starters..
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
So where's the part where Charlie Wilson and the CIA was the driving force behind arming the Afghans against the Soviets? Also aid started in 1979 when Jimmy Carter was in office . Regan's term started in 81 and it was a D. controlled office So what is it, Wilson (Democrat) good, Regan (Republican) bad ? Not only that I think the Soviets withdrew in 1989....Taliban didn't become active until at least five years later. And who wouldn't agree that we saved thousands of lives by giving the Mujahadeen surface to air missles so they could take out Russian helicopters
This is nothing more than half truths. It's what the left does best.
I wonder... When it's B.J. Clintons Birthday will thinkprogress mention how OBL got away leading up to 911 :think:
So... is what you are alluding to is that President Reagan was an impotent dufus from 1981 to 1989?Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
prfctlefts wrote:Nothingman54 wrote:Dudes dead, I don't care.
Well that's one way of looking at it,but it's typical of the far left. They are always trying to distort history or simply choose to ignore it.
So, we've admitted that Carter was initially involved in suppliying aid to the Mujahadeen in an attempt to overthrow the leftist Afghan governmnent, before Reagan turned it into a full-scale enterprise - something that I'm sure you'll be proud of.
So how about the other points raised? Did Reagan not illegally funnel weapons to Iran? Or is that just a half-truth?
Did Reagan arm and train the Contra death squads in Nicaragua, and then try to protect them from scrutiny after countless masssacres were exposed and hundreds of thousands of civilians slaughtered? Or is that just a half-truth?
Did Reagan not veto numerous Anti-apartheid resolutions at the U.N? Or is that just a half-truth?0 -
I swear I think you have a hard on for any thing you can find that sheds a negative light on America or our gov. At least Regan would admit when he was wrong. And where do you live ? China
:roll: Now there's a country thats a great roll model when it comes to human rights , 0 -
No not at all. He was a he'll of a a lot smarter than our current president and not to mention both bushes and Clinton IMO. And furthermore don't you live in California? You guys just reelected Moonbeam and Barbra Boxer
oh but don't worry well be bailing your asses out sooner or later because your state is completely bankrupt due to statismCosmo wrote:
...prfctlefts wrote::roll: Gee you think you could find a more biased website than think progress ? Look Regan wasn't perfect by any means. Did he make mistakes ? Yes, doesn't every president ? Im going to take reelected the time and research every one of those examples and I wouldn't be suprised if there was a good reason he did what he did. And I wouldn't be suprised if any of these examples listed are not the whole story or simply just not true.
#10 just for starters..
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
So where's the part where Charlie Wilson and the CIA was the driving force behind arming the Afghans against the Soviets? Also aid started in 1979 when Jimmy Carter was in office . Regan's term started in 81 and it was a D. controlled office So what is it, Wilson (Democrat) good, Regan (Republican) bad ? Not only that I think the Soviets withdrew in 1989....Taliban didn't become active until at least five years later. And who wouldn't agree that we saved thousands of lives by giving the Mujahadeen surface to air missles so they could take out Russian helicopters
This is nothing more than half truths. It's what the left does best.
I wonder... When it's B.J. Clintons Birthday will thinkprogress mention how OBL got away leading up to 911 :think:
So... is what you are alluding to is that President Reagan was an impotent dufus from 1981 to 1989?0 -
I think conservatives have a very romantic view of Regan for a lot of what he stood for BEFORE he got elected. Go back and review his old speeches in the 70s, and he sounds much closer to a true libertarian-conservative than he turned out to be. This seems to be the pattern of any president of this country, including our present one. Shit, even W. ran on a foreign policy of non-interventionism, and look how that turned out... I don't doubt that some of these men really honestly want to change things towards their ideal when they run for president, but when they actually sit in the oval office, they find it's impossible. They are NOT in control as much as they thought the'd be. This always reminds me of the Bill Hicks routine where he talks about showing the film of Kennedy Assasinatoin the smoky room. Maybe it's the conspiracy nut in me, but sometimes I wonder if it's true? :?
Sometimes people just love the person they helped put in power unconditionally, and just have their blinders on always after.0 -
prfctlefts wrote:I swear I think you have a hard on for any thing you can find that sheds a negative light on America or our gov. At least Regan would admit when he was wrong. And where do you live ? China :roll: Now there's a country thats a great roll model when it comes to human rights ,
Wow. Not at all. I hate the idea that anyone who isn't a Republican hates America. This is ludicrous. It reminds me of the 2004 election: "if you don't vote for Bush, you aren't patriotic." Pure idiocy.
For me, someone who "leans to the left" (especially on social issues), I criticize and point out injustice because I want the country to be better. I do not want my country to be responsible for actions that I do not agree with, actions that I find invalid and unjustified, such as the 2 wars we are in right now, such as funding dictators, such as Iran-Contra, such Vietnam, such as a failed foreign policy based on imperialism and expansionism, and the list goes on.
Its just absurd to think that anyone who isn't swelled by a false sense of nationalism or exceptionalism hates America. Silly.0 -
VINNY GOOMBA wrote:I think conservatives have a very romantic view of Regan for a lot of what he stood for BEFORE he got elected. Go back and review his old speeches in the 70s, and he sounds much closer to a true libertarian-conservative than he turned out to be. This seems to be the pattern of any president of this country, including our present one. Shit, even W. ran on a foreign policy of non-interventionism, and look how that turned out... I don't doubt that some of these men really honestly want to change things towards their ideal when they run for president, but when they actually sit in the oval office, they find it's impossible. They are NOT in control as much as they thought the'd be. This always reminds me of the Bill Hicks routine where he talks about showing the film of Kennedy Assasinatoin the smoky room. Maybe it's the conspiracy nut in me, but sometimes I wonder if it's true? :?
Sometimes people just love the person they helped put in power unconditionally, and just have their blinders on always after.
Well put.
All that matters today is if a person has an R or a D next to their name. That is how lazy and docile the American public is.0 -
whygohome wrote:VINNY GOOMBA wrote:I think conservatives have a very romantic view of Regan for a lot of what he stood for BEFORE he got elected. Go back and review his old speeches in the 70s, and he sounds much closer to a true libertarian-conservative than he turned out to be. This seems to be the pattern of any president of this country, including our present one. Shit, even W. ran on a foreign policy of non-interventionism, and look how that turned out... I don't doubt that some of these men really honestly want to change things towards their ideal when they run for president, but when they actually sit in the oval office, they find it's impossible. They are NOT in control as much as they thought the'd be. This always reminds me of the Bill Hicks routine where he talks about showing the film of Kennedy Assasinatoin the smoky room. Maybe it's the conspiracy nut in me, but sometimes I wonder if it's true? :?
Sometimes people just love the person they helped put in power unconditionally, and just have their blinders on always after.
Well put.
All that matters today is if a person has an R or a D next to their name. That is how lazy and docile the American public is.
How does that make an American lazy? Why don't you go out and start campaigning about how awful America is and then we will see how far you get with your ideas. I think you are being way to righteous and completely stupid.0 -
...prfctlefts wrote:No not at all. He was a he'll of a a lot smarter than our current president and not to mention both bushes and Clinton IMO. And furthermore don't you live in California? You guys just reelected Moonbeam and Barbra Boxer oh but don't worry well be bailing your asses out sooner or later because your state is completely bankrupt due to statism
Everything you say here is all fine and dandy... but, irrelevant to what we are discussing. What does it have to do with what you said previously about Carter and Afghanistan?
Reagan was President for 8 years after Carter... are you implying that in those 8 years he could not change the strategies and tactics in Afghanistan? Sounds like that the the gist of your message... that Carter and Wilson and the Democrats began Afghanistan... but, Reagan was too weak to change course... that was set by Democrats.
If I am wrong... please, explain what you mean instead of throwing out crap that has nothing to do what what you were originally trying to point out.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Reagan definitely was one of the worst deficit spenders...he increased the size of government. I don't think real conservatives would tell anyone that Reagan was the poster child for the conservative way of life...He was a fine republican, but those things aren't always the same.
One thing Reagan did that I respect was eliminate some of the tax shelters. Reagan actually increased the percentage of the whole the wealthy paid in taxes. The top 10% paid a lot more of the income tax burden in this country from teh start to the end of his presidency. Democrats seem to not give any credit to Reagan for a lot of his economic policies, even though his tax "cuts" brought in more revenue for the federal government and put less of a burden on the bottom 90%. Hind sight is always 20/20, Reagan certainly wasn't perfect but he did some good things. I hope when people come on here and call him, or any president, evil it is just hyperbole to be funny...or maybe I have misunderstood what it means to be evil.
Reagan's biggest fault was deficit spending in my mind, his social policies were a bit archaic as well, how HIV was handled was one of the biggest mistakes of the 20th century...No president is perfect, and I sure hope those that hold Reagan as a deity can at the very least acknowledge he had some faultsthat’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan0
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