No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
So AL managers aren't real managers? They don't make decisions?
No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
So you want substitution decisions to dictate the outcome of a game and not the skills of the best players on a team?
Still waiting to hear why putting the DH into the NL would be bad for baseball....
I kind of like that it is different in both leagues. I cant disagree that it makes little sense, I just kind of like it. I liked it better when the leagues were different and they didnt play one another except in the World Series.
I know, I know....stay off my fucking lawn, I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids, back in my day we used to have to walk to school uphill both ways, fuck Forrest Hills, and everything else us old cranky men say all of the time.
I can see both sides of the argument and like that there is a difference.
Still waiting to hear why putting the DH into the NL would be bad for baseball....
I kind of like that it is different in both leagues. I cant disagree that it makes little sense, I just kind of like it. I liked it better when the leagues were different and they didnt play one another except in the World Series.
I know, I know....stay off my fucking lawn, I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids, back in my day we used to have to walk to school uphill both ways, fuck Forrest Hills, and everything else us old cranky men say all of the time.
I can see both sides of the argument and like that there is a difference.
I am fine with the difference so as long as I don't typically watch boring ass NL baseball.
That said, I think we all know where this argument is going to end eventually.
The NL will not go to the DH. You can forget about that pipe dream.
I would put very good money that it does, quite possibly in the next CBA. With all the drug testing concessions, you bet your ass they are going to fight for it. There is a lot more money to be made by players off the DH than pitchers batting.
The NL will not go to the DH. You can forget about that pipe dream.
I would put very good money that it does, quite possibly in the next CBA. With all the drug testing concessions, you bet your ass they are going to fight for it. There is a lot more money to be made by players off the DH than pitchers batting.
It was almost universal 35 years ago. You bet your ass the teams would go for this pretty much immediately if it was a point for the players union. No reason for them not too.
I remember that story. But that doesn't mean they would vote for it today. That was the best fishing trip anyone ever made. Thank god there wasn't cell phones back then. I hate to bust your bubble, but the NL isn't going to implement the DH.
Mad bum, Harvey, Lester, Teheran, and Kershaw could all tear their Achilles while batting on the same night and they still wouldn't vote for the DH.
And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
I remember that story. But that doesn't mean they would vote for it today. That was the best fishing trip anyone ever made. Thank god there wasn't cell phones back then. I hate to bust your bubble, but the NL isn't going to implement the DH.
Mad bum, Harvey, Lester, Teheran, and Kershaw could all tear their Achilles while batting on the same night and they still wouldn't vote for the DH.
I think you are very very wrong.
Baseball decisions are based on money, right?
What money is there to be made off of pitchers batting?
And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.
Clearly you don't watch much AL baseball. While obviously there is more strategy involved with the NL with pitchers batting and double switches, etc.., it's not like AL managers just sit there scratching their balls every night. Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!
No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
So you want substitution decisions to dictate the outcome of a game and not the skills of the best players on a team?
yes i do because you need a team to win not just one player (not surprising a Yankee fan would only want the 'stars' to dictate the outcome of the games). the decision in the middle innings of a tied game on what to do with your pitcher is something that i find very interesting. do i hit em and hope we score later, do i pinch hit and try to score now and trust my bullpen to get the last 6 or 9 outs? that's called strategy. there is almost none the AL. put your pitcher out there, put your boppers out there and the manager and players on the bench can take a nap which during those routine 4 hour Yankee-Red Sox games you need one.
obviously there is not going to be any changing of anyone's minds in this argument. some like the NL game and some like the AL game. different strokes for different folks i guess.
And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.
Clearly you don't watch much AL baseball. While obviously there is more strategy involved with the NL with pitchers batting and double switches, etc.., it's not like AL managers just sit there scratching their balls every night. Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!
Madden was one of the best because he got the most out of who he had. Once the game started he sat there scratching his balls unless he had to pick up the phone and call the bullpen when 95% of the fans watching could tell you who was coming in to replace the starter. Provided no injuries what else did he do in game? You might get a late game switch because a certain reliever came in, but all that is predetermined for the most part. Certain guys platoon and others do not. A computer could manage an AL game as there is no art to it.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!
he got his rep because he did a lot with a little and he had guys wear crazy shit on road trips....aka esprit de corps....not because of his decision making.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.
Clearly you don't watch much AL baseball. While obviously there is more strategy involved with the NL with pitchers batting and double switches, etc.., it's not like AL managers just sit there scratching their balls every night. Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!
Madden was one of the best because he got the most out of who he had. Once the game started he sat there scratching his balls unless he had to pick up the phone and call the bullpen when 95% of the fans watching could tell you who was coming in to replace the starter. Provided no injuries what else did he do in game? You might get a late game switch because a certain reliever came in, but all that is predetermined for the most part. Certain guys platoon and others do not. A computer could manage an AL game as there is no art to it.
OK, well there's obviously no point in arguing with you about this since you think a computer can manage an AL team. Just an absolutely ridiculous statement.
Plenty of decisions to be made for managers in both leagues and the way offense is going, more and more run producing tactics are gonna have to be used. The DH doesn't make that big of a difference in strategy.
I'm a fan of NL baseball, especially when those tough decisions have to be made in the playoffs, but DH is a foregone conclusion. Not sure when, but sooner than later.
Oh, and Scherzer using Wainwright's injury as an argument for DH is idiotic.
No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
So you want substitution decisions to dictate the outcome of a game and not the skills of the best players on a team?
yes i do because you need a team to win not just one player (not surprising a Yankee fan would only want the 'stars' to dictate the outcome of the games). the decision in the middle innings of a tied game on what to do with your pitcher is something that i find very interesting. do i hit em and hope we score later, do i pinch hit and try to score now and trust my bullpen to get the last 6 or 9 outs? that's called strategy. there is almost none the AL. put your pitcher out there, put your boppers out there and the manager and players on the bench can take a nap which during those routine 4 hour Yankee-Red Sox games you need one.
obviously there is not going to be any changing of anyone's minds in this argument. some like the NL game and some like the AL game. different strokes for different folks i guess.
I think the nap comes when 7, 8 and 9 come up in NL games.
Is it really absurd a computer couldn't manage an AL game. This was data I found online:
There were 2,016 American League vs. American League games in 2011 and only 840 pinch hitters used. The term "used" is meant in its broadest sense, to include those pinch hitters who were announced, but then called back for another pinch hitter before getting an official plate appearance. That happened four times.
Next, we'll look at National League vs. National League games. There were 2,338 such games in 2011 and 3,938 pinch hitters used, or roughly 1.7 pinch hitters per game. Obviously, without the designated hitter, National League managers rely on pinch hitters considerably more than their American League counterparts. They also announce, and then pull back, pinch hitters more frequently than American League managers; they did it 51 times in 2011. Lefty, righty, lefty, righty,
So AL clubs only send up a pinch hitter in one out overy 2 1/2 games versus almost 2 per game in the NL. Once again, what do AL managers actually do once the game starts? It isn't looking at match ups or trying to get the right guy up at the right time.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
I remember that story. But that doesn't mean they would vote for it today. That was the best fishing trip anyone ever made. Thank god there wasn't cell phones back then. I hate to bust your bubble, but the NL isn't going to implement the DH.
Mad bum, Harvey, Lester, Teheran, and Kershaw could all tear their Achilles while batting on the same night and they still wouldn't vote for the DH.
I think you are very very wrong.
Baseball decisions are based on money, right?
What money is there to be made off of pitchers batting?
What money is there to be made off the DH?
So where's the money in the DH? There's only about 4 or 5 great DH's in the history of the game. And great is stretching it. Zero in the Hall of fame. I'm not sure where all of this money is to be made.
No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
So you want substitution decisions to dictate the outcome of a game and not the skills of the best players on a team?
yes i do because you need a team to win not just one player (not surprising a Yankee fan would only want the 'stars' to dictate the outcome of the games). the decision in the middle innings of a tied game on what to do with your pitcher is something that i find very interesting. do i hit em and hope we score later, do i pinch hit and try to score now and trust my bullpen to get the last 6 or 9 outs? that's called strategy. there is almost none the AL. put your pitcher out there, put your boppers out there and the manager and players on the bench can take a nap which during those routine 4 hour Yankee-Red Sox games you need one.
obviously there is not going to be any changing of anyone's minds in this argument. some like the NL game and some like the AL game. different strokes for different folks i guess.
I think the nap comes when 7, 8 and 9 come up in NL games.
There are several 7, 8, 9 hitters in the AL that aren't any good. That's a silly argument for the DH. The cubs 9 hitter is better than almost every 9 hitter in the AL. It helps that Madden bats his pitcher in the 8 hole!
I remember that story. But that doesn't mean they would vote for it today. That was the best fishing trip anyone ever made. Thank god there wasn't cell phones back then. I hate to bust your bubble, but the NL isn't going to implement the DH.
Mad bum, Harvey, Lester, Teheran, and Kershaw could all tear their Achilles while batting on the same night and they still wouldn't vote for the DH.
I think you are very very wrong.
Baseball decisions are based on money, right?
What money is there to be made off of pitchers batting?
What money is there to be made off the DH?
So where's the money in the DH? There's only about 4 or 5 great DH's in the history of the game. And great is stretching it. Zero in the Hall of fame. I'm not sure where all of this money is to be made.
Um, Ortiz makes $15+ million a year, Pujols will be a $25 million DH, Arod is a $23 million DH. That is a lot of money to be made, not only from players, but agents, marketing, etc. Not that sponsors will have a direct say, but I am pretty sure the league cares about that kind of stuff.
Also, not to harp on injuries, and while sure, Wainwright could have gotten hurt any other way, he got hurt batting, you don't think it hurts the Cards playoff chances by losing him for the year? Again, the potential for less money
Since this is no longer justification of the DH but talking about whether it will happen, if the players union pushed for this, what incentive would baseball (owners) have for not accepting it? Sure they could give them a hard time to get something they want, but there is no incentive for it not to happen.
It is going to happen. I would guess in the pretty near future. If not this CBA, then the next for sure. The MLBPA is also by far the strongest union in any sport. This would be a slam dunk if they want it. There is no fight from baseball to be had.
I thought you meant money to be made by the owners. Other than Ortiz, those huge contracts were signed while all those players were actually playing defense.
Is it really absurd a computer couldn't manage an AL game. This was data I found online:
There were 2,016 American League vs. American League games in 2011 and only 840 pinch hitters used. The term "used" is meant in its broadest sense, to include those pinch hitters who were announced, but then called back for another pinch hitter before getting an official plate appearance. That happened four times.
Next, we'll look at National League vs. National League games. There were 2,338 such games in 2011 and 3,938 pinch hitters used, or roughly 1.7 pinch hitters per game. Obviously, without the designated hitter, National League managers rely on pinch hitters considerably more than their American League counterparts. They also announce, and then pull back, pinch hitters more frequently than American League managers; they did it 51 times in 2011. Lefty, righty, lefty, righty,
So AL clubs only send up a pinch hitter in one out overy 2 1/2 games versus almost 2 per game in the NL. Once again, what do AL managers actually do once the game starts? It isn't looking at match ups or trying to get the right guy up at the right time.
pretty big disparity there between NL and AL pinch hitters and pretty much proves my point about the value of a FULL roster in the NL compared to the AL.
No one pays to see Simmons from ATL bat. He is a defensive whiz. Lets DH for him too.
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
So you want substitution decisions to dictate the outcome of a game and not the skills of the best players on a team?
yes i do because you need a team to win not just one player (not surprising a Yankee fan would only want the 'stars' to dictate the outcome of the games). the decision in the middle innings of a tied game on what to do with your pitcher is something that i find very interesting. do i hit em and hope we score later, do i pinch hit and try to score now and trust my bullpen to get the last 6 or 9 outs? that's called strategy. there is almost none the AL. put your pitcher out there, put your boppers out there and the manager and players on the bench can take a nap which during those routine 4 hour Yankee-Red Sox games you need one.
obviously there is not going to be any changing of anyone's minds in this argument. some like the NL game and some like the AL game. different strokes for different folks i guess.
I think the nap comes when 7, 8 and 9 come up in NL games.
There are several 7, 8, 9 hitters in the AL that aren't any good. That's a silly argument for the DH. The cubs 9 hitter is better than almost every 9 hitter in the AL. It helps that Madden bats his pitcher in the 8 hole!
spell Maddon right, wouldya? you're supposed to be on the "smart side" here.
I'm afraid the DH eventually WILL infect the NL....that doesn't mean I have to like it....the DH is inflating slopppi's and a-fraud's numbers just like steroids did....maybe more. Think how fresh you can be when you only have to stand up 4-5 times per game.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
And your theory on why pull out a starter who is rolling is actually why it should stay. The NL requires a real manager who has to make decisions. A game can turn on any right or wrong one made. This game is different but still baseball with positions and players playing. Pitcher is a position with different responsibilities than the other guys but it is still a position.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
I know, I know....stay off my fucking lawn, I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids, back in my day we used to have to walk to school uphill both ways, fuck Forrest Hills, and everything else us old cranky men say all of the time.
I can see both sides of the argument and like that there is a difference.
That said, I think we all know where this argument is going to end eventually.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/27/reminder-the-reason-the-dh-isnt-universal-is-because-the-phillies-screwed-up-the-vote/
Mad bum, Harvey, Lester, Teheran, and Kershaw could all tear their Achilles while batting on the same night and they still wouldn't vote for the DH.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Baseball decisions are based on money, right?
What money is there to be made off of pitchers batting?
What money is there to be made off the DH?
obviously there is not going to be any changing of anyone's minds in this argument. some like the NL game and some like the AL game. different strokes for different folks i guess.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I'm a fan of NL baseball, especially when those tough decisions have to be made in the playoffs, but DH is a foregone conclusion. Not sure when, but sooner than later.
Oh, and Scherzer using Wainwright's injury as an argument for DH is idiotic.
There were 2,016 American League vs. American League games in 2011 and only 840 pinch hitters used. The term "used" is meant in its broadest sense, to include those pinch hitters who were announced, but then called back for another pinch hitter before getting an official plate appearance. That happened four times.
Next, we'll look at National League vs. National League games. There were 2,338 such games in 2011 and 3,938 pinch hitters used, or roughly 1.7 pinch hitters per game. Obviously, without the designated hitter, National League managers rely on pinch hitters considerably more than their American League counterparts. They also announce, and then pull back, pinch hitters more frequently than American League managers; they did it 51 times in 2011. Lefty, righty, lefty, righty,
So AL clubs only send up a pinch hitter in one out overy 2 1/2 games versus almost 2 per game in the NL. Once again, what do AL managers actually do once the game starts? It isn't looking at match ups or trying to get the right guy up at the right time.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Also, not to harp on injuries, and while sure, Wainwright could have gotten hurt any other way, he got hurt batting, you don't think it hurts the Cards playoff chances by losing him for the year? Again, the potential for less money
Since this is no longer justification of the DH but talking about whether it will happen, if the players union pushed for this, what incentive would baseball (owners) have for not accepting it? Sure they could give them a hard time to get something they want, but there is no incentive for it not to happen.
It is going to happen. I would guess in the pretty near future. If not this CBA, then the next for sure. The MLBPA is also by far the strongest union in any sport. This would be a slam dunk if they want it. There is no fight from baseball to be had.
I'm afraid the DH eventually WILL infect the NL....that doesn't mean I have to like it....the DH is inflating slopppi's and a-fraud's numbers just like steroids did....maybe more. Think how fresh you can be when you only have to stand up 4-5 times per game.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14