I don't believe any football players' deaths have been linked to steroids.
lyle alzado
there's no evidence that steroids caused the brain tumor. besides, he started using anabolics in 1969....not exactly the same stuff as is out there now.
he was basically mainlining that crap for 20 years...no one is gonna tell me it didn't lead to his death
I could argue that you only like this because it helps the Phillies the same way you think I hate it because I'm a Yankees fan. Last year they wouldn't have face Carpenter twice and this year they are a safe bet at a playoff spot even if one of the other NL East teams has improved enough to overtake them in the standings since Howard's hurt, Oswalt's gone, and DC and Miami both made some serious improvements this winter.
Of course I like it because it would've hurt the Cards. That's what I'm saying. What distinct advantage did a 102 major league-best-in-wins team have over a team that squeeked into the playoffs? Nothing more than one more home playoff game. If you want to say the LDS should be 7 games, I'm all for it, but what advantage did they have in that series? Barely any other than one more home game. Actually, the wild card teams are winning the LDS series more often than the divisional winners(54% of the time),. So, again, what distinct advantage does winning your division, or having the best record in your league mean? None. Agreed the All-Star game being the deciding factor of who gets home field in the WS is preposterous, but I have a feeling that will change with the format - or it might not.
On a semi-related note - the second most overrated thing in baseball is calling Selig out for being a moron and destroying the game. Second only to people who think its a disgrace to the game when someone takes steroids. In both cases, gimme a break. That old dude hasn't perpetually done horrible things to the league. I could count probably on one hand what everyone's gripe is with this old fossil. Which I also find ironic, when people call him an old senile bastard, yet he's been more progressive in growing the sport than any other commissioner before him.
I'd love to see the LDS go to 7 games. I never have like the fact that one round of the playoffs is played under a different format than the others. A 5-game series doesn't always determine which team is better, in my opinion. Sometimes the Wild Card team is the better team (when the Wild Card team has more wins than the division winner it plays, it's hard to say it's a worse team) but I think it would be even easier to fit a 7-game LDS into the schedule than a 1-game playoff with a day in between it and the next round (or at least just as easy) and it would be more fair to the division winners since the 1-game playoff means the division winners all sit around for an extra day waiting to see who they play. Even if the 2&3 teams play each other the day after the 1-game playoff, the #1 seed is still sitting around for an extra day waiting for the Wild Card to fly into town and having 3 days off before the playoffs begin is not always going to be an advantage.
there's no evidence that steroids caused the brain tumor. besides, he started using anabolics in 1969....not exactly the same stuff as is out there now.
he was basically mainlining that crap for 20 years...no one is gonna tell me it didn't lead to his death
agreed. I believe Barry will recover and his testicles will unshrivel
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If steroids, HGH, etc. aren't bad for you, then someone needs to explain why Bonds and Sosa have such oddly-shaped heads now, but didn't back in 1990 or why Palmeiro was a spokesman for Viagra. The reason why steroids are banned from sports is simple: if you know they have negative effects on your health but taking them will lead to better performance, you put the clean players at a disadvantage. They have to choose between taking a harmful drug in order to compete or staying clean and running the risk that they won't have a job because a dirty player with less natural ability put up better numbers.
The media wants to lay all of the blame on Selig and the owners for turning a blind eye to the problem until the government started pressuring them (and that's certainly fair and true), but the media doesn't exactly have a spotless record on the issue, either. How many people suspected McGwire and Sosa were cheating but still pumped out article after article about the magic of 2 division rivals chasing such an esteemed record and the link between Maris and McGwire because Maris finished his career in St. Louis? Perhaps even more absurdly, how many members of the media thought it was such a fun and believable story when Mickey Tettleton beefed up over the winter and told the press it was because he started eating Froot Loops every day?
wrestlers maybe. Flo Jo probably did some 'roids but they didn't cause her death (at least not officially). I don't believe any football players' deaths have been linked to steroids. The violence of the game has definitely lead to deaths.
yeah ... i dunno ... why are they illegal then if not because of it's side effects?
there have been some sport historians that have done work on steroids and they are basically illegal because of cold war propaganda. russians and germans invented them and we wanted everything they did to be bad and wrong.
as for steroids being harmful - no there haven't been a bevy of peer reviewed studies on this because steroids are generally good for you. additionally, and this is the point that was made throughout both posted articles, at what point are performance enablers bad? Won't Urlacher die painfully and earlier because of the shots he's taking to get on the field? Is it a good thing to take a knee ligament and stick it in your arm so you can throw fast again? Why are some things look at as normal "procedures" or surgeries, and others not? It, of course, goes back to the cold war shit. since most writers are still from that era they care about it (even unkowingly), as the younger generation of writers come up steroids will be old news methinks.
there have been some sport historians that have done work on steroids and they are basically illegal because of cold war propaganda. russians and germans invented them and we wanted everything they did to be bad and wrong.
as for steroids being harmful - no there haven't been a bevy of peer reviewed studies on this because steroids are generally good for you. additionally, and this is the point that was made throughout both posted articles, at what point are performance enablers bad? Won't Urlacher die painfully and earlier because of the shots he's taking to get on the field? Is it a good thing to take a knee ligament and stick it in your arm so you can throw fast again? Why are some things look at as normal "procedures" or surgeries, and others not? It, of course, goes back to the cold war shit. since most writers are still from that era they care about it (even unkowingly), as the younger generation of writers come up steroids will be old news methinks.
where does it say steroids are good for you? ... i understand it's use in treating certain ailments when there are limited options but in an otherwise healthy individual - why don't we ingest steroids in our food sources? ... i don't ever recall reading ... hey - you should eat this cow that's been pumped full of roids ...
Help me out...is Hunter Pence a keeper? Is Ryan Zimmerman a keeper?
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
there have been some sport historians that have done work on steroids and they are basically illegal because of cold war propaganda. russians and germans invented them and we wanted everything they did to be bad and wrong.
as for steroids being harmful - no there haven't been a bevy of peer reviewed studies on this because steroids are generally good for you. additionally, and this is the point that was made throughout both posted articles, at what point are performance enablers bad? Won't Urlacher die painfully and earlier because of the shots he's taking to get on the field? Is it a good thing to take a knee ligament and stick it in your arm so you can throw fast again? Why are some things look at as normal "procedures" or surgeries, and others not? It, of course, goes back to the cold war shit. since most writers are still from that era they care about it (even unkowingly), as the younger generation of writers come up steroids will be old news methinks.
where does it say steroids are good for you? ... i understand it's use in treating certain ailments when there are limited options but in an otherwise healthy individual - why don't we ingest steroids in our food sources? ... i don't ever recall reading ... hey - you should eat this cow that's been pumped full of roids ...
I agree. Steroids are good when prescribed by doctors for legitimate health issues, but I don't see how wanting bigger biceps to hit a ball really far is a legitmate health issue. Some asthma patients are given steroids, for example, but that's why MLB has the Therapeutic Use Exemption. There's a legitimate need and a specific dosage used when treating a real issue. When guys are getting fraudulent presricptions or getting them through other illegal means they aren't taking a "safe" amount of the drug.
No one can tell me that steroids don't have a negative impact on your health and mental health. I had many friends who took steroids for a long time and I took a couple cycles of d-bol before my freshman year of college soccer and that shit fucks your head up. That is a fact.
Help me out...is Hunter Pence a keeper? Is Ryan Zimmerman a keeper?
Yes and no. Just my gut there...
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No one can tell me that steroids don't have a negative impact on your health and mental health. I had many friends who took steroids for a long time and I took a couple cycles of d-bol before my freshman year of college soccer and that shit fucks your head up. That is a fact.
Just look at Chris Benoit and you'll see what steroids can do to your mind. His family might want to believe that it was all because of his concussions, but it wasn't like that was his first violent act. His wife had filed for a restraining order back in 2003 and filed for divorce before changing her mind for some reason.
Help me out...is Hunter Pence a keeper? Is Ryan Zimmerman a keeper?
it depends on how many keepers your allowed and how deep your league drafts ... if you're in a 12 team leagues with a 30 man roster and you get to keep 15 ... they probably make the list ...
That Benoit shit is messed up. But in professional wrestling, steroids are only an ingredient in a bigger problem - along with the rampant drug use of other kinds, constant traveling, the circus environment of the whole thing, low pay, physical toll of the actual art of it(yes, pro wrestling is an art).
No one can tell me that steroids don't have a negative impact on your health and mental health. I had many friends who took steroids for a long time and I took a couple cycles of d-bol before my freshman year of college soccer and that shit fucks your head up. That is a fact.
Just look at Chris Benoit and you'll see what steroids can do to your mind. His family might want to believe that it was all because of his concussions, but it wasn't like that was his first violent act. His wife had filed for a restraining order back in 2003 and filed for divorce before changing her mind for some reason.
Knew he was a wrestler and killed himself but had to look it up. Yeah, exactly. Coming from the crew that I grew up with I saw some fucked up shit with these guys after they started cycling. That shit is not good for you. No one can convince me otherwise.
i see what you are saying monster, but then when is getting a cadaver tendon put into your ankle so you can pitch exactly good for you? what about TJ surgery, or ACL repairs (I had mine done, then found out that most people who get the procedure develop arthritis), cortisone shots or stronger, headache medicine, hell prescription painkillers (a huge problem at my school), and all of that other shit people put in their bodies so they can play? if we are going to ban steroids for safety reasons (which is fair) then we gotta ban all the other shit too. when we pull that apart, that's when the cold war shit pops up, because we don't truly care about athlete safety - if we did none of the aforementioned would exist.
i see what you are saying monster, but then when is getting a cadaver tendon put into your ankle so you can pitch exactly good for you? what about TJ surgery, or ACL repairs (I had mine done, then found out that most people who get the procedure develop arthritis), cortisone shots or stronger, headache medicine, hell prescription painkillers (a huge problem at my school), and all of that other shit people put in their bodies so they can play? if we are going to ban steroids for safety reasons (which is fair) then we gotta ban all the other shit too. when we pull that apart, that's when the cold war shit pops up, because we don't truly care about athlete safety - if we did none of the aforementioned would exist.
Nonsense, there is a huge difference between getting tommy john surgery and whatever the fuck schilling had done and taking a shot to gain 30 pounds of muscle mass in 3 months that makes you go limp and fucks with your mind.
i see what you are saying monster, but then when is getting a cadaver tendon put into your ankle so you can pitch exactly good for you? what about TJ surgery, or ACL repairs (I had mine done, then found out that most people who get the procedure develop arthritis), cortisone shots or stronger, headache medicine, hell prescription painkillers (a huge problem at my school), and all of that other shit people put in their bodies so they can play? if we are going to ban steroids for safety reasons (which is fair) then we gotta ban all the other shit too. when we pull that apart, that's when the cold war shit pops up, because we don't truly care about athlete safety - if we did none of the aforementioned would exist.
Nonsense, there is a huge difference between getting tommy john surgery and whatever the fuck schilling had done and taking a shot to gain 30 pounds of muscle mass in 3 months that makes you go limp and fucks with your mind.
then let's just start with prescription painkillers, and cortisone shots that allow you to play when the natural human body would not be able to.
i see what you are saying monster, but then when is getting a cadaver tendon put into your ankle so you can pitch exactly good for you? what about TJ surgery, or ACL repairs (I had mine done, then found out that most people who get the procedure develop arthritis), cortisone shots or stronger, headache medicine, hell prescription painkillers (a huge problem at my school), and all of that other shit people put in their bodies so they can play? if we are going to ban steroids for safety reasons (which is fair) then we gotta ban all the other shit too. when we pull that apart, that's when the cold war shit pops up, because we don't truly care about athlete safety - if we did none of the aforementioned would exist.
i think the difference has to be the purpose ... if you don't do the ACL surgery - are you gonna be able to walk!? ... same thing with chemo for cancer patients ... you do it to save your life or preserve some standard of living ... if PED's are strictly for sport - I think that it's different ... you shouldn't reward the athlete that is prepared to sacrifice his long-term health over athletes that aren't ...
then let's just start with prescription painkillers, and cortisone shots that allow you to play when the natural human body would not be able to.
i think that is a fair point ... and i would say that it's similar to concussions ... if an athlete is required to take painkillers or shots that have long-term health effects in order to play ... they should sit ... but sports is big business and the might dollar always wins ...
And no, most people don't give a shit about atheletes safety but like I said earlier, if you allow it when does it start? When do you allow people to begin taking this and how to do you get around younger athletes not starting it earlier?
i see what you are saying monster, but then when is getting a cadaver tendon put into your ankle so you can pitch exactly good for you? what about TJ surgery, or ACL repairs (I had mine done, then found out that most people who get the procedure develop arthritis), cortisone shots or stronger, headache medicine, hell prescription painkillers (a huge problem at my school), and all of that other shit people put in their bodies so they can play? if we are going to ban steroids for safety reasons (which is fair) then we gotta ban all the other shit too. when we pull that apart, that's when the cold war shit pops up, because we don't truly care about athlete safety - if we did none of the aforementioned would exist.
Nonsense, there is a huge difference between getting tommy john surgery and whatever the fuck schilling had done and taking a shot to gain 30 pounds of muscle mass in 3 months that makes you go limp and fucks with your mind.
then let's just start with prescription painkillers, and cortisone shots that allow you to play when the natural human body would not be able to.
That is obviously a huge problem and I don't think athletes should be taking pain killers either. That stuff is basically heroin. The Times article on the Rangers enforcer who died said he was getting a different prescription for some serious shit from all 6 of the Rangers doctors. That shit is unacceptable.
I am not outraged by steroids at all, I have stated that many times and if I were a professional athelete and my salary depended on it I would definitely take them but I don't think they should be in professional sports.
you shouldn't reward the athlete that is prepared to sacrifice his long-term health over athletes that aren't ...
this horse has just about been beat to death....
but I truly believe the "health issues" have been way over stated by people with much more of a political agenda than any agenda based in fact.
GWB State of the Union speech - "there are no short cuts to accomplishment" :roll:
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but I truly believe the "health issues" have been way over stated by people with much more of a political agenda than any agenda based in fact.
GWB State of the Union speech - "there are no short cuts to accomplishment" :roll:
i dunno about overstated ... if you look at pharmaceuticals ... they all come with a textbook of side effects and do not do this or use this if lists ... steroids are essentially the same thing ... artificial ... not meant for the human body ... frig ... even antibiotics are bad for people and they get prescribed every second ...
Comments
he was basically mainlining that crap for 20 years...no one is gonna tell me it didn't lead to his death
I'd love to see the LDS go to 7 games. I never have like the fact that one round of the playoffs is played under a different format than the others. A 5-game series doesn't always determine which team is better, in my opinion. Sometimes the Wild Card team is the better team (when the Wild Card team has more wins than the division winner it plays, it's hard to say it's a worse team) but I think it would be even easier to fit a 7-game LDS into the schedule than a 1-game playoff with a day in between it and the next round (or at least just as easy) and it would be more fair to the division winners since the 1-game playoff means the division winners all sit around for an extra day waiting to see who they play. Even if the 2&3 teams play each other the day after the 1-game playoff, the #1 seed is still sitting around for an extra day waiting for the Wild Card to fly into town and having 3 days off before the playoffs begin is not always going to be an advantage.
agreed. I believe Barry will recover and his testicles will unshrivel
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but his head will always remain huge...figuratively
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The media wants to lay all of the blame on Selig and the owners for turning a blind eye to the problem until the government started pressuring them (and that's certainly fair and true), but the media doesn't exactly have a spotless record on the issue, either. How many people suspected McGwire and Sosa were cheating but still pumped out article after article about the magic of 2 division rivals chasing such an esteemed record and the link between Maris and McGwire because Maris finished his career in St. Louis? Perhaps even more absurdly, how many members of the media thought it was such a fun and believable story when Mickey Tettleton beefed up over the winter and told the press it was because he started eating Froot Loops every day?
Side effects from swimming around in their money bins ...
as for steroids being harmful - no there haven't been a bevy of peer reviewed studies on this because steroids are generally good for you. additionally, and this is the point that was made throughout both posted articles, at what point are performance enablers bad? Won't Urlacher die painfully and earlier because of the shots he's taking to get on the field? Is it a good thing to take a knee ligament and stick it in your arm so you can throw fast again? Why are some things look at as normal "procedures" or surgeries, and others not? It, of course, goes back to the cold war shit. since most writers are still from that era they care about it (even unkowingly), as the younger generation of writers come up steroids will be old news methinks.
where does it say steroids are good for you? ... i understand it's use in treating certain ailments when there are limited options but in an otherwise healthy individual - why don't we ingest steroids in our food sources? ... i don't ever recall reading ... hey - you should eat this cow that's been pumped full of roids ...
duck tails?
I agree. Steroids are good when prescribed by doctors for legitimate health issues, but I don't see how wanting bigger biceps to hit a ball really far is a legitmate health issue. Some asthma patients are given steroids, for example, but that's why MLB has the Therapeutic Use Exemption. There's a legitimate need and a specific dosage used when treating a real issue. When guys are getting fraudulent presricptions or getting them through other illegal means they aren't taking a "safe" amount of the drug.
Yes and no. Just my gut there...
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Just look at Chris Benoit and you'll see what steroids can do to your mind. His family might want to believe that it was all because of his concussions, but it wasn't like that was his first violent act. His wife had filed for a restraining order back in 2003 and filed for divorce before changing her mind for some reason.
it depends on how many keepers your allowed and how deep your league drafts ... if you're in a 12 team leagues with a 30 man roster and you get to keep 15 ... they probably make the list ...
Knew he was a wrestler and killed himself but had to look it up. Yeah, exactly. Coming from the crew that I grew up with I saw some fucked up shit with these guys after they started cycling. That shit is not good for you. No one can convince me otherwise.
Nonsense, there is a huge difference between getting tommy john surgery and whatever the fuck schilling had done and taking a shot to gain 30 pounds of muscle mass in 3 months that makes you go limp and fucks with your mind.
i think the difference has to be the purpose ... if you don't do the ACL surgery - are you gonna be able to walk!? ... same thing with chemo for cancer patients ... you do it to save your life or preserve some standard of living ... if PED's are strictly for sport - I think that it's different ... you shouldn't reward the athlete that is prepared to sacrifice his long-term health over athletes that aren't ...
i think that is a fair point ... and i would say that it's similar to concussions ... if an athlete is required to take painkillers or shots that have long-term health effects in order to play ... they should sit ... but sports is big business and the might dollar always wins ...
That is obviously a huge problem and I don't think athletes should be taking pain killers either. That stuff is basically heroin. The Times article on the Rangers enforcer who died said he was getting a different prescription for some serious shit from all 6 of the Rangers doctors. That shit is unacceptable.
I am not outraged by steroids at all, I have stated that many times and if I were a professional athelete and my salary depended on it I would definitely take them but I don't think they should be in professional sports.
this horse has just about been beat to death....
but I truly believe the "health issues" have been way over stated by people with much more of a political agenda than any agenda based in fact.
GWB State of the Union speech - "there are no short cuts to accomplishment" :roll:
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i dunno about overstated ... if you look at pharmaceuticals ... they all come with a textbook of side effects and do not do this or use this if lists ... steroids are essentially the same thing ... artificial ... not meant for the human body ... frig ... even antibiotics are bad for people and they get prescribed every second ...