MLB 2024 Off Season

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Comments

  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,566
    Flagg wrote:
    I don't think this deal is stupid at all. Like I said, with the new TV deal they have the money. And we are talking about the Texas Rangers here - historically one of the worst professional sports franchises in history, who have gotten so close the last couple of years only to have their hearts ripped out. They had to make this deal.

    If it was another team with skins on the wall then maybe they don't make this kind of deal, but for the Rangers is was a no brainer. Their window is right now and they have to go for it. I want Darvish to qualify for that opt-out clause because that would mean he would be great in that same window - when the rest of the team is great.

    but wouldn't $112 million be better spent being offered to Cliff Lee or CJ Wilson than to a guy who has not thrown one pitch in the major leagues?
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Jamie Moyer signed a minor league contract with the Colorado Rockies. He's 49. This will be chuck and duck baseball at it's finest if he makes the team.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,875
    pjhawks wrote:
    Flagg wrote:
    I don't think this deal is stupid at all. Like I said, with the new TV deal they have the money. And we are talking about the Texas Rangers here - historically one of the worst professional sports franchises in history, who have gotten so close the last couple of years only to have their hearts ripped out. They had to make this deal.

    If it was another team with skins on the wall then maybe they don't make this kind of deal, but for the Rangers is was a no brainer. Their window is right now and they have to go for it. I want Darvish to qualify for that opt-out clause because that would mean he would be great in that same window - when the rest of the team is great.

    but wouldn't $112 million be better spent being offered to Cliff Lee or CJ Wilson than to a guy who has not thrown one pitch in the major leagues?

    Darvish is going to be a lot better than CJ Wilson, I will bet on that. And we'll see about Lee, you're investing in a 25 year old in Darvish rather than a 32 year old in Lee. There are certainly some questions about Darvish, he has to adapt to pitching once every 5 or 6 days rather than once a week, but the dude is legitimately good, very good. No one has put up statistics like he has in Japan. Even if you say the compeition in Japan is basically Triple A, he has put up a 1.72 ERA over 5 years, 5 fucking years with the highest ERA he has ever had at 1.88.
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    The way the opt-out clause is structured does give the Rangers a little bit of protection because he has to do one of two things:

    1. Win the Cy Young once and finish in the top 4 another time

    or

    2. Finish 2nd in the Cy Young voting and finish in the top 4 twice.

    That's not going to be the easiest incentive for him to reach, but it also means that if he stinks, they're stuck with him for 6 years because he can't opt out even if he wants to. I get that it was never going to be a 3-year deal for him, but I also think the team was crazy to bid $51 million for his rights. They've committed over $111 million to a guy who has never thrown a pitch in the majors and has never pitched regularly on 4 days of rest instead of 6. It's a lot of money to spend on a guy who could wind up wearing down late in the year due to the increased workload and decreased rest time. I'm not rooting against him, but I think it was a very big risk for the Rangers, especially if it means they're out of the running for Fielder or signing Fielder means they can't re-sign Hamilton. Fielder's a proven performer and Hamilton is a proven performer when he's healthy (and even though he's injury-prone, the team knows this and can plan for him missing time). They should've tried to keep Wilson instead of going after Darvish. They may have been able to afford Wilson, Hamilton, and Fielder since Wilson's deal is for much less when you consider the posting fee. Even if they still couldn't get Fielder, at least they'd have a known performer at the top of their rotation and their division rival wouldn't have him.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the thing with the $52 million is that it doesn't count against the cap nor cost draft picks ...so, really it's just cash ... which by all accounts the rangers have and whether one wants to believe it or not ... money plays a huge role in MLB ... sure, he might turn out to be a bust but it's definitely worth the risk ...
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,566
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    Flagg wrote:
    I don't think this deal is stupid at all. Like I said, with the new TV deal they have the money. And we are talking about the Texas Rangers here - historically one of the worst professional sports franchises in history, who have gotten so close the last couple of years only to have their hearts ripped out. They had to make this deal.

    If it was another team with skins on the wall then maybe they don't make this kind of deal, but for the Rangers is was a no brainer. Their window is right now and they have to go for it. I want Darvish to qualify for that opt-out clause because that would mean he would be great in that same window - when the rest of the team is great.

    but wouldn't $112 million be better spent being offered to Cliff Lee or CJ Wilson than to a guy who has not thrown one pitch in the major leagues?

    Darvish is going to be a lot better than CJ Wilson, I will bet on that. And we'll see about Lee, you're investing in a 25 year old in Darvish rather than a 32 year old in Lee. There are certainly some questions about Darvish, he has to adapt to pitching once every 5 or 6 days rather than once a week, but the dude is legitimately good, very good. No one has put up statistics like he has in Japan. Even if you say the compeition in Japan is basically Triple A, he has put up a 1.72 ERA over 5 years, 5 fucking years with the highest ERA he has ever had at 1.88.

    it's still a whole hell of a lot of money for a player unproven at the major league level. no doubt the guy has a ton of talent and can't wait to see him pitch.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,875
    The way the opt-out clause is structured does give the Rangers a little bit of protection because he has to do one of two things:

    1. Win the Cy Young once and finish in the top 4 another time

    or

    2. Finish 2nd in the Cy Young voting and finish in the top 4 twice.

    That's not going to be the easiest incentive for him to reach, but it also means that if he stinks, they're stuck with him for 6 years because he can't opt out even if he wants to. I get that it was never going to be a 3-year deal for him, but I also think the team was crazy to bid $51 million for his rights. They've committed over $111 million to a guy who has never thrown a pitch in the majors and has never pitched regularly on 4 days of rest instead of 6. It's a lot of money to spend on a guy who could wind up wearing down late in the year due to the increased workload and decreased rest time. I'm not rooting against him, but I think it was a very big risk for the Rangers, especially if it means they're out of the running for Fielder or signing Fielder means they can't re-sign Hamilton. Fielder's a proven performer and Hamilton is a proven performer when he's healthy (and even though he's injury-prone, the team knows this and can plan for him missing time). They should've tried to keep Wilson instead of going after Darvish. They may have been able to afford Wilson, Hamilton, and Fielder since Wilson's deal is for much less when you consider the posting fee. Even if they still couldn't get Fielder, at least they'd have a known performer at the top of their rotation and their division rival wouldn't have him.

    Agreed on the opt out. I guess they look at it if he pitches that well, they got their moneys worth for 5 years. Those situations for the team suck though, if he's good you lose him or pay more, if he's bad you're stuck.

    I disagree on Darvish. He is definitely a risk and I have only watched him pitch this year once, but the dude is good. The biggest things are as we both mentioned, adjusting to the pitching schedule and also his work load, he has over 1,000 professional innings on his arm by 25, that could definitely lead to an elbow injury, but that's a risk with any pitcher. A whole lot of innings though.

    Regarding Fielder, if I were Texas, I would sign Fielder and let Hamilton walk after this year. He can't stay on the field and is only getting older. Go for it all this year and see what happens with Hamilton.

    I like Darvish more than most fans and think this was well worth the risk. A lot of money but even with the expected regression this year, he should be a very good big league pitcher. Once he gets settled, he could be great.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,875
    pjhawks wrote:
    Darvish is going to be a lot better than CJ Wilson, I will bet on that. And we'll see about Lee, you're investing in a 25 year old in Darvish rather than a 32 year old in Lee. There are certainly some questions about Darvish, he has to adapt to pitching once every 5 or 6 days rather than once a week, but the dude is legitimately good, very good. No one has put up statistics like he has in Japan. Even if you say the compeition in Japan is basically Triple A, he has put up a 1.72 ERA over 5 years, 5 fucking years with the highest ERA he has ever had at 1.88.

    it's still a whole hell of a lot of money for a player unproven at the major league level. no doubt the guy has a ton of talent and can't wait to see him pitch.[/quote]

    No doubt, but baseball is a game of risks. Yankees just traded as good of a hitting prospect as there is in baseball for a pitcher with only 1 year big league experience. Not exactly the same, but a big risk for sure. Darvish is a risk for sure, but all signs point to him being very good.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,430
    edited January 2012
    I wouldn't touch Fielder with a 10' pole if he wants more than a few years. He's gonna start breakin down any day now.
    Post edited by DewieCox on
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,875
    DewieCox wrote:
    I wouldn't touch Fielder with a 10' pole if he wants more than a few years. He's gonna start breakin down any day, now.

    Meanwhile, he plays more games a season than anyone in baseball over the last 3 years. I hate this argument. Dude hasn't had an injury scare ever and just because of his size, he's going to break down.
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    I think Darvish would be a safer bet if the team had a better rotation around him. They have a bunch of guys who are 3s and 4s, but no ace and I'm not sure they have anyone I'd say is a realistic #2 so they're putting the hopes of their rotation a Darvish and the assumption that Feliz will transition from a reliever to a starter as well as Wilson did. If Darvish is a bust I don't think Texas will beat the Angels for the division.

    It's true that Hamilton is getting older and injury prone. I didn't realize how old he actually is--I guess he seems younger to me since he got a late start to his major league career. I think they've painted themselves into a corner now, though. Hamilton is a fan favorite and he's a good teammate by all accounts. They've started negotiating an extension and everyone knows it. If it's true that signing Fielder means Hamilton's gone after this year, then that's a very awkward situation for everyone involved all season long. I guess the one thing they have going for him is that Hamilton has imposed a deadline for extension talks so he's the one ending negotiations before the season starts. The team can keep him this year and hope he's healthy enough to maybe finally win the World Series but also know that if he gets hurt again that he won't command as much on the open market and might wind up being affordable for them after all (much like it seems the Mets were hoping for with Reyes last year, although it didn't work out for them). It could also turn out that Ryan and daniels are gret poker players and they can afford all of these guys and wind up signing them all. If that's the case, they'll have a very dangerous lineup and the West should be even more interesting this year. A tight race and comparisons all year for Pujols/Fielder and Wilson/Darvish will make for some good headlines.
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    The way the opt-out clause is structured does give the Rangers a little bit of protection because he has to do one of two things:

    1. Win the Cy Young once and finish in the top 4 another time

    or

    2. Finish 2nd in the Cy Young voting and finish in the top 4 twice.

    That's not going to be the easiest incentive for him to reach, but it also means that if he stinks, they're stuck with him for 6 years because he can't opt out even if he wants to. I get that it was never going to be a 3-year deal for him, but I also think the team was crazy to bid $51 million for his rights. They've committed over $111 million to a guy who has never thrown a pitch in the majors and has never pitched regularly on 4 days of rest instead of 6. It's a lot of money to spend on a guy who could wind up wearing down late in the year due to the increased workload and decreased rest time. I'm not rooting against him, but I think it was a very big risk for the Rangers, especially if it means they're out of the running for Fielder or signing Fielder means they can't re-sign Hamilton. Fielder's a proven performer and Hamilton is a proven performer when he's healthy (and even though he's injury-prone, the team knows this and can plan for him missing time). They should've tried to keep Wilson instead of going after Darvish. They may have been able to afford Wilson, Hamilton, and Fielder since Wilson's deal is for much less when you consider the posting fee. Even if they still couldn't get Fielder, at least they'd have a known performer at the top of their rotation and their division rival wouldn't have him.

    Agreed on the opt out. I guess they look at it if he pitches that well, they got their moneys worth for 5 years. Those situations for the team suck though, if he's good you lose him or pay more, if he's bad you're stuck.

    I disagree on Darvish. He is definitely a risk and I have only watched him pitch this year once, but the dude is good. The biggest things are as we both mentioned, adjusting to the pitching schedule and also his work load, he has over 1,000 professional innings on his arm by 25, that could definitely lead to an elbow injury, but that's a risk with any pitcher. A whole lot of innings though.

    Regarding Fielder, if I were Texas, I would sign Fielder and let Hamilton walk after this year. He can't stay on the field and is only getting older. Go for it all this year and see what happens with Hamilton.

    I like Darvish more than most fans and think this was well worth the risk. A lot of money but even with the expected regression this year, he should be a very good big league pitcher. Once he gets settled, he could be great.
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    If he signs with an AL team he can just DH if playing 1B becomes a problem. Realistically, though, 1B is one of the positions where a team can afford to let defense slide if the player can hit as well as Fielder. I don't think his power will go away and 1B isn't very demanding physically so I think he'll be ok. Now, I'm not a fan of 8-year contracts in general, but I don't think he's a big of a risk as someone playing the outfield would be on a similar deal.
    DewieCox wrote:
    I wouldn't touch Fielder with a 10' pole if he wants more than a few years. He's gonna start breakin down any day now.
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,073
    Anybody see the Top 10 Right Now: Starting Pitchers on MLBN?

    1 Roy Halladay
    2 Justin Verlander
    3 Cliff Lee
    4 Felix Hernandez
    5 Clayton Kershaw
    6 Jered Weaver
    7 Tim Lincecum
    8 Dan Haren
    9 CC Sabathia
    10 Zack Greinke

    Like all those names except it should be Hamels in for Grienke. And I say this as a complete homer.
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    pjhawks wrote:
    Flagg wrote:
    I don't think this deal is stupid at all. Like I said, with the new TV deal they have the money. And we are talking about the Texas Rangers here - historically one of the worst professional sports franchises in history, who have gotten so close the last couple of years only to have their hearts ripped out. They had to make this deal.

    If it was another team with skins on the wall then maybe they don't make this kind of deal, but for the Rangers is was a no brainer. Their window is right now and they have to go for it. I want Darvish to qualify for that opt-out clause because that would mean he would be great in that same window - when the rest of the team is great.

    but wouldn't $112 million be better spent being offered to Cliff Lee or CJ Wilson than to a guy who has not thrown one pitch in the major leagues?

    Cliff Lee didn't want to be here anyway. And he is much older. I've seen enough of CJ Wilson. He wins games in the regular season, but is a complete failure in must-win games, especially in the post-season.

    The Rangers have scouted and built a relationship with Darvish for the past several years. I think they have a good idea of what they are getting. I hope it works out.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • FlaggFlagg Posts: 5,856
    I can't keep up with all of the discussion since I am here at work, but basically to me the upside to Darvish was too high to pass up. We've seen CJ Wilson down here for years and while he has his moments, he has disappointed every time with the chips down. He is also 31 and has only been a starter for a couple of years.

    As far as Fielder - if you can get him for 5 years, I say go for it and let Hamilton walk after the season for the same reasons mentioned above. Hamilton, while I love him to death, cannot stay healthy and I believe that will only get worse. He is a transcendent player when healthy. But he breaks down too much. If you can limit Fielder to 5 years (or maybe more with a team opt-out clause) and can afford him I think you do it. Can you imagine the Rangers lineup with him in it, in that launching pad of a park, with that short left field? The Rangers would be scary good.

    As a life-long Rangers fan, I could not be happier to see this team make such a complete philosophical shift from always focusing on hitting to making pitching the priority. With Colby Lewis leading the way, and a bunch of mid-twenty year olds (Holland, Darvish, Harrison, Feldman, Ogando, Feliz), the Rangers are incredibly deep in starting pitching.
    DAL-7/5/98,10/17/00,6/9/03,11/15/13
    BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
    MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
    PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
    CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
    HTFD-6/27/08
    ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
    KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
    Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
    PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
    OKC-11/16/13
    SEA-12/6/13
    TUL-10/8/14
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    Apparently, Fausto Carmona isn't really Fausto Carmona, he's Roberto Hernandez Heredia. He was arrested in the Dominican Republic for using a false identity. I wonder how old he really is.

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/ ... -identity/
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,875
    Apparently, Fausto Carmona isn't really Fausto Carmona, he's Roberto Hernandez Heredia. He was arrested in the Dominican Republic for using a false identity. I wonder how old he really is.

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/ ... -identity/

    Was just going to post this same thing. Leo Nunez now Carmona...
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    I wonder how many other guys are playing over here under false names.

    Heyman is saying that Carmona/Heredia is really 31 instead of 28. Either way, I don't think it'll hurt the Indians too badly if he misses the season because of this. His ERA has been above 5.00 more often than it's been below 4.00 and his career WHIP is 1.43.

    I'm pretty sure there's a clause in the new CBA that says a player who changes his uniform number without giving a certain number of days notice has to buy back however many jerseys have already been produced with the old number on it. I wonder if that applies when you change your name? How great would it be if this guy has to buy whatever "Carmona" jerseys are sitting in boxes in a warehouse somewhere?
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    Apparently, Fausto Carmona isn't really Fausto Carmona, he's Roberto Hernandez Heredia. He was arrested in the Dominican Republic for using a false identity. I wonder how old he really is.

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/ ... -identity/

    Was just going to post this same thing. Leo Nunez now Carmona...
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    I just read this article about Gary Carter. It doesn't sound like he's going to win this fight. It's a shame.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entr ... 2/34468077
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,875
    I just read this article about Gary Carter. It doesn't sound like he's going to win this fight. It's a shame.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entr ... 2/34468077

    Saw this on Hardball talk. Fucking horrible. Glioblastoma is a fucking death sentence. Not to bring it up twice in a day on here but this is what my dad had, fortunately or unforunately, he never made it out of surgery so we didn't go through what Gary Carters family is going through now, watching him deterioriate. I can't even fucking imagine. Thoughts obviously go out to them. Just fucking horrible.

    Just a frame of reference, Glioblastoma research is currently at the same point as most cancer research was in the 60's and 70's. Fuck you cancer. For someone with Gliosblastoma under 50, the median survival time is 17 months, over 50 it's 11 months.

    End of my rant, apologies.
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    Rays agreed to terms with Carlos Pena on a 1-year $7.25 million deal.

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/01/20/repor ... =mlb_t2_a3
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    In addition to the $573 million in debt and $131-million divorce settlement, Frank McCourt's attorneys have said a sale could result in up to $200 million in taxes. That would put McCourt's total obligations at up to $904 million, not counting any income tax penalties or liability to Stow's family.
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgers ... llion.html

    and yet this asshole may walk away with a 100 million or so and still own the dodgers stadium parking lots :roll:
  • Monster RainMonster Rain Posts: 1,415
    don't worry, they won't be the Dodgers Stadium parking lots for long if he keeps them. They'll soon be the "Walk to the Games, Assholes" Luxury Apartments.
    norm wrote:
    In addition to the $573 million in debt and $131-million divorce settlement, Frank McCourt's attorneys have said a sale could result in up to $200 million in taxes. That would put McCourt's total obligations at up to $904 million, not counting any income tax penalties or liability to Stow's family.
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgers ... llion.html

    and yet this asshole may walk away with a 100 million or so and still own the dodgers stadium parking lots :roll:
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Anybody see the Top 10 Right Now: Starting Pitchers on MLBN?

    1 Roy Halladay
    2 Justin Verlander
    3 Cliff Lee
    4 Felix Hernandez
    5 Clayton Kershaw
    6 Jered Weaver
    7 Tim Lincecum
    8 Dan Haren
    9 CC Sabathia
    10 Zack Greinke

    Like all those names except it should be Hamels in for Grienke. And I say this as a complete homer.

    personally I think hamels is better than Lee
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 30,316
    The Fixer wrote:

    personally I think hamels is better than Lee

    :shock: :shock: :shock:

    don't let your man crush get in the way of objective thinking.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,073
    The Fixer wrote:
    Anybody see the Top 10 Right Now: Starting Pitchers on MLBN?

    1 Roy Halladay
    2 Justin Verlander
    3 Cliff Lee
    4 Felix Hernandez
    5 Clayton Kershaw
    6 Jered Weaver
    7 Tim Lincecum
    8 Dan Haren
    9 CC Sabathia
    10 Zack Greinke

    Like all those names except it should be Hamels in for Grienke. And I say this as a complete homer.

    personally I think hamels is better than Lee

    I'd say so, too, in the long run, but his numbers are his numbers. And I think because of his shitty performance in game 2 everyone forgets those two absolutley ridiculous stretches Lee had during the season.
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,483
    go Astros!
    :? :)
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    rumor: Nationals to sign Prince Fielder to 8 year deal.
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,073
    norm wrote:
    rumor: Nationals to sign Prince Fielder to 8 year deal.

    Says who?

    Cause I just read the Doyers recently.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 30,316
    A's "very interested" in Manny :roll: . boy, has that franchise hit rock bottom.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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