MLB 2023 Off Season

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  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    So Ernie Banks doesn't belong in the Hall then?
    If Donnie Backbreak had hit over 500 HRs he'd be in. Ridiculous comparison
    Well if he had played 19 seasons he might have.
    I miss igotid88
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    . So in the Mattingly/Puckett comparison, I wouldn't move Mattingly down any notches for having little post-season success, but I'd bump Puckett up for having it...if that makes sense. 
    Makes perfect sense and pretty much encapsulates my viewpoint here.

    2 borderline at best candidates. One has postseason success, bumps up enough to get in. The other has none, stays on the outside where he belongs.
    Then why isn't David Cone in then?
    I miss igotid88
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    So Ernie Banks doesn't belong in the Hall then?
    If Donnie Backbreak had hit over 500 HRs he'd be in. Ridiculous comparison
    Well if he had played 19 seasons he might have.
    He played 14 seasons and hit 222, so you think he was gonna hit almost 300 HR's in 5 seasons in his late 30's?
    Wow.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    . So in the Mattingly/Puckett comparison, I wouldn't move Mattingly down any notches for having little post-season success, but I'd bump Puckett up for having it...if that makes sense. 
    Makes perfect sense and pretty much encapsulates my viewpoint here.

    2 borderline at best candidates. One has postseason success, bumps up enough to get in. The other has none, stays on the outside where he belongs.
    Then why isn't David Cone in then?
    David Cone? OK now you're just fucking with me, right?
    Or the pinstripe colored glasses are so thick you can't see clearly.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    So Ernie Banks doesn't belong in the Hall then?
    If Donnie Backbreak had hit over 500 HRs he'd be in. Ridiculous comparison
    Well if he had played 19 seasons he might have.
    He played 14 seasons and hit 222, so you think he was gonna hit almost 300 HR's in 5 seasons in his late 30's?
    Wow.
    Again. You're not taking into account the injury. And maybe he would have taken hgh or steroids by then to further his career. And even if not the hrs he would have had 3000 hits or close to it. Over 500 doubles. A .300 average. His MVP. Had 9 Gold Gloves. So possibly 3-5 more. A possible 4 World Series championships if everything else played out the same. 
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    So Ernie Banks doesn't belong in the Hall then?
    If Donnie Backbreak had hit over 500 HRs he'd be in. Ridiculous comparison
    Well if he had played 19 seasons he might have.
    He played 14 seasons and hit 222, so you think he was gonna hit almost 300 HR's in 5 seasons in his late 30's?
    Wow.
    Again. You're not taking into account the injury. And maybe he would have taken hgh or steroids by then to further his career. And even if not the hrs he would have had 3000 hits or close to it. Over 500 doubles. A .300 average. His MVP. Had 9 Gold Gloves. So possibly 3-5 more. A possible 4 World Series championships if everything else played out the same. 
    Once again, if the queen had balls, she'd be king.
    You get entry into the Hall based on what you did, not what maybe you could have done.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    Tommy John, Tony Conigliaro
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    And the all-time greats have the ability to carry their team to some level of post season success, not one losing series over an entire career for the winningest franchise in history.
    So Ernie Banks doesn't belong in the Hall then?
    If Donnie Backbreak had hit over 500 HRs he'd be in. Ridiculous comparison
    Well if he had played 19 seasons he might have.
    He played 14 seasons and hit 222, so you think he was gonna hit almost 300 HR's in 5 seasons in his late 30's?
    Wow.
    Again. You're not taking into account the injury. And maybe he would have taken hgh or steroids by then to further his career. And even if not the hrs he would have had 3000 hits or close to it. Over 500 doubles. A .300 average. His MVP. Had 9 Gold Gloves. So possibly 3-5 more. A possible 4 World Series championships if everything else played out the same. 
    Once again, if the queen had balls, she'd be king.
    You get entry into the Hall based on what you did, not what maybe you could have done.
    Again. What he did was still pretty good.? Enough to get brought up time and again for a vote. Koufax is in for what he could have done. Kirby is in for what he could have done. I understood why he isn't in. But if players whom I believe he is better than are getting in. Then why not him? He was a dominant player who was still a good player by the time he retired prematurely. 
    I miss igotid88
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    I don't know about Bo. He was more of a hr guy. But he wasn't a good hitter. 
    I miss igotid88
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    Koufax is in based what he could have done?
    Now I know you're just fucking with me.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    Poncier said:
    Koufax is in based what he could have done?
    Now I know you're just fucking with me.
    So it's okay to count his 12 years but not Mattingly's?
    I miss igotid88
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    Koufax is in based what he could have done?
    Now I know you're just fucking with me.
    So it's okay to count his 12 years but not Mattingly's?
    I assume you are aware of the way Koufax dominated from 62-66. If Mattingly had an equivalent stretch for a hitter, he'd be in. He didn't.
    A stretch like that for a hitter would require like 5 years straight of triple crown contention and multiple MVPs.

    And also, Koufax' 2 World Series MVP awards do add to his candidacy.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 35,210
    edited December 2022
    Poncier said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    Tommy John, Tony Conigliaro
    Tommy John is in the HOF...

    Edit: Mixed him up with Don Sutton!  Sorry!!!
    Post edited by tempo_n_groove on
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    Poncier said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    Tommy John, Tony Conigliaro
    Tommy John is in the HOF...

    The surgery Hall of Fame maybe, but he's not in Cooperstown.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    Tommy John, Tony Conigliaro
    Tommy John is in the HOF...

    The surgery Hall of Fame maybe, but he's not in Cooperstown.
    Nope, you are correct.  I edited my statement.  I mixed him up with Sutton.
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    Tommy John, Tony Conigliaro
    Tommy John is in the HOF...

    The surgery Hall of Fame maybe, but he's not in Cooperstown.
    Conigliaro was another good one.  I forgot about him!.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    Koufax is in based what he could have done?
    Now I know you're just fucking with me.
    So it's okay to count his 12 years but not Mattingly's?
    I assume you are aware of the way Koufax dominated from 62-66. If Mattingly had an equivalent stretch for a hitter, he'd be in. He didn't.
    A stretch like that for a hitter would require like 5 years straight of triple crown contention and multiple MVPs.

    And also, Koufax' 2 World Series MVP awards do add to his candidacy.
    Mattingly had at least 4 maybe 5. He should have won the MVP a 2nd year in a row. Especially as it was better than his MVP year. But it was given to Clemens. And Koufax played at a time when first place was all you needed to be in the World Series. I'm not arguing against Koufax. 
    I miss igotid88
  • igotid88 said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    I don't know about Bo. He was more of a hr guy. But he wasn't a good hitter. 
    He only had like 2 years to do anything so who knows...  Bo knows though!
    Bo Knows Bo Bo Jackson and Dick Schaap 9780685481851 Amazoncom Books
  • The last great spitballer passed.  RIP Gaylord Perry.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    igotid88 said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    I don't know about Bo. He was more of a hr guy. But he wasn't a good hitter. 
    He only had like 2 years to do anything so who knows...  Bo knows though!
    Bo Knows Bo Bo Jackson and Dick Schaap 9780685481851 Amazoncom Books
    He played 8 seasons. Mostly 6. But enough to know what type of player he was. I mean he was a highlight. 
    I miss igotid88
  • If Bo had a full career, I'd estimate that he'd finish with 400 homeruns, and 1,324,200 strike outs (or thereabouts). 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • igotid88 said:
    igotid88 said:
    I'd put JR Richard, Mo Vaugh, Prince Fielder, Don Mattingly, Jose Fernandez, Thurman Munson, Bo Jackson all go on the "What If list".

    Am I forgetting anybody?
    I don't know about Bo. He was more of a hr guy. But he wasn't a good hitter. 
    He only had like 2 years to do anything so who knows...  Bo knows though!
    Bo Knows Bo Bo Jackson and Dick Schaap 9780685481851 Amazoncom Books
    He played 8 seasons. Mostly 6. But enough to know what type of player he was. I mean he was a highlight. 
    5 before he got hurt.  His last year was a big improvement average wise though.  He also never came close to playing a full year so there is another reason for the whatif's? The last 3 years he was beyond his abilities.

    Ultimately a good hitter he wouldn't be but a 25-35 HR hitter every year w solid defense, sure.
  • If Bo had a full career, I'd estimate that he'd finish with 400 homeruns, and 1,324,200 strike outs (or thereabouts). 
    That's fair, I think you're low on the K's though.
  • If Bo had a full career, I'd estimate that he'd finish with 400 homeruns, and 1,324,200 strike outs (or thereabouts). 
    That's fair, I think you're low on the K's though.
    He'd probably end up with more bats broken over his knee that he would walks. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,576
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    Koufax is in based what he could have done?
    Now I know you're just fucking with me.
    So it's okay to count his 12 years but not Mattingly's?
    I assume you are aware of the way Koufax dominated from 62-66. If Mattingly had an equivalent stretch for a hitter, he'd be in. He didn't.
    A stretch like that for a hitter would require like 5 years straight of triple crown contention and multiple MVPs.

    And also, Koufax' 2 World Series MVP awards do add to his candidacy.
    Mattingly had at least 4 maybe 5. He should have won the MVP a 2nd year in a row. Especially as it was better than his MVP year. But it was given to Clemens. 

    This weekend we rock Portland
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,061
    We're comparing Mattingly to Sandy Koufax now?
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 28,168
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    Poncier said:
    Koufax is in based what he could have done?
    Now I know you're just fucking with me.
    So it's okay to count his 12 years but not Mattingly's?
    I assume you are aware of the way Koufax dominated from 62-66. If Mattingly had an equivalent stretch for a hitter, he'd be in. He didn't.
    A stretch like that for a hitter would require like 5 years straight of triple crown contention and multiple MVPs.

    And also, Koufax' 2 World Series MVP awards do add to his candidacy.
    Mattingly had at least 4 maybe 5. He should have won the MVP a 2nd year in a row. Especially as it was better than his MVP year. But it was given to Clemens. 

    :lol:   
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    It's not okay to bring up the injury but it is okay make people assume he just lost his hr power out of nowhere? 
    It's like a runner who's winning halfway through the race then brakes his leg and then you say he sucked at the end.
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  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 24,637
    edited December 2022
    We're comparing Mattingly to Sandy Koufax now?
    Koufax had 6 average years and 6 good to great years. Pretty much like Mattingly. Only Sandy was able to finish strong. Whereas Mattingly, according to you guys because "lack of talent" and not back issues was not. 
    Post edited by igotid88 on
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