MLB 2022 Season

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Comments

  • tbergstbergs Posts: 8,621
    Nobody should be allowed in the Hall Of Fame, until Fred Mcgriff is enshrined. 
    493 HR's and I am pretty damned sure he wasnt a steroid freak. 
    I loved Crime Dog. Followed him from his Toronto days until he joined that loaded Braves line-up. His consecutive 30+ homer seasons were still a rare thing at that time and the fact that he was a lefty like me made me enjoy watching him, and Griffey, the most.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • cutzcutz Posts: 10,551
    I'm shocked the first 2 Post I read are from NYY fans bitching about Ortiz.

    Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?

    Do you take away the records from the players who took  Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?

    Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    igotid88 said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
    Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
    He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

    Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

    Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

    I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

    Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

    Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
    Sheffield and Pettitte should be in.  Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something 
    I really am wishy washy on Schilling...  Sheffield hmmm.

    So we talked about league leaders and stuff.  Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once!  He led the league in average.  Crazy right?

    He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid.  He has 500, open up the doors.  These writers I just don't understand.  It's a personal merit contest now.  Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 22,714
    igotid88 said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
    Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
    He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

    Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

    Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

    I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

    Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

    Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
    Sheffield and Pettitte should be in.  Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something 
    I really am wishy washy on Schilling...  Sheffield hmmm.

    So we talked about league leaders and stuff.  Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once!  He led the league in average.  Crazy right?

    He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid.  He has 500, open up the doors.  These writers I just don't understand.  It's a personal merit contest now.  Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
    Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
    I miss igotid88
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    cutz said:
    I'm shocked the first 2 Post I read are from NYY fans bitching about Ortiz.

    Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?

    Do you take away the records from the players who took  Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?

    Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
    Then you have a player like Arod.  He was great from the beginning as a junior Olympian.  He got thrown off the team because he wouldn't sign a deal w Topps.  His agent told him don't worry, you'll be taken care of down the road.  He has always been good.

    Problem is he got popped, twice.

    I still think he should be in the hall.  I don't see how steroids help him be the best 3rd basemen in baseball all those years...
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    igotid88 said:
    igotid88 said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
    Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
    He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

    Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

    Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

    I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

    Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

    Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
    Sheffield and Pettitte should be in.  Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something 
    I really am wishy washy on Schilling...  Sheffield hmmm.

    So we talked about league leaders and stuff.  Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once!  He led the league in average.  Crazy right?

    He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid.  He has 500, open up the doors.  These writers I just don't understand.  It's a personal merit contest now.  Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
    Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
    Borderline for me.  He has a decent amount of wins that should be the standard now to get in.  The WAR is a little low for HOF pitchers but not the lowest.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 13,719
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    The rest of it was well put though.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 22,714
    cutz said:
    I'm shocked the first 2 Post I read are from NYY fans bitching about Ortiz.
     
    It's about the hypocrisy of these writers
    I miss igotid88
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,488
    igotid88 said:
    igotid88 said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
    Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
    He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

    Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

    Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

    I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

    Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

    Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
    Sheffield and Pettitte should be in.  Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something 
    I really am wishy washy on Schilling...  Sheffield hmmm.

    So we talked about league leaders and stuff.  Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once!  He led the league in average.  Crazy right?

    He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid.  He has 500, open up the doors.  These writers I just don't understand.  It's a personal merit contest now.  Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
    Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
    Borderline for me.  He has a decent amount of wins that should be the standard now to get in.  The WAR is a little low for HOF pitchers but not the lowest.
    Pettitte is not a Hall of Famer to me.  If he pitched for the Twins would anyone think he was a Hall of Famer?  I don't think so.  Good pitcher  but never close to the best 5-10 in the game at any time in his career.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 22,714
    pjhawks said:
    igotid88 said:
    igotid88 said:
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
    Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
    He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

    Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

    Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

    I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

    Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

    Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
    Sheffield and Pettitte should be in.  Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something 
    I really am wishy washy on Schilling...  Sheffield hmmm.

    So we talked about league leaders and stuff.  Sheffield is one of those guys that never led the league in any of the major categories except once!  He led the league in average.  Crazy right?

    He does have 500 HR's though but that doesn't guarantee you in anymore which is stupid.  He has 500, open up the doors.  These writers I just don't understand.  It's a personal merit contest now.  Asshole-not in, nice guy/decent ball player-welcome to the hall...
    Pettitte is not in only because he admitted to the hgh
    Borderline for me.  He has a decent amount of wins that should be the standard now to get in.  The WAR is a little low for HOF pitchers but not the lowest.
    Pettitte is not a Hall of Famer to me.  If he pitched for the Twins would anyone think he was a Hall of Famer?  I don't think so.  Good pitcher  but never close to the best 5-10 in the game at any time in his career.
    If he had the same numbers probably. And his post  season he probably helps them win a World Series. 
    I miss igotid88
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,343
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,275
    edited January 26
    tbergs said:
    Nobody should be allowed in the Hall Of Fame, until Fred Mcgriff is enshrined. 
    493 HR's and I am pretty damned sure he wasnt a steroid freak. 
    I loved Crime Dog. Followed him from his Toronto days until he joined that loaded Braves line-up. His consecutive 30+ homer seasons were still a rare thing at that time and the fact that he was a lefty like me made me enjoy watching him, and Griffey, the most.
    Had a cool swing. Should be in at some point. Very good for quite awhile.
    Post edited by DewieCox on
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 13,719
    Wobbie said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
    Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball.
    Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • cutzcutz Posts: 10,551
    igotid88 said:
    cutz said:
    I'm shocked the first 2 Post I read are from NYY fans bitching about Ortiz.
     
    It's about the hypocrisy of these writers
    That is so TRUE
  • cutzcutz Posts: 10,551
    cutz said:


    Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?

    Do you take away the records from the players who took  Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?

    Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
    Thoughts?
  • erebuserebus Posts: 485
    cutz said:
    cutz said:


    Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?

    Do you take away the records from the players who took  Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?

    Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
    Thoughts?
    Good questions. Some of the HOF decisions seem hypocritical. I understand your point about Selig.
    I’ve heard reasoning for Ortiz was that he never failed a test after (so he hid it better or played clean after being caught?)

    you are correct in the nuances of where do you start drawing the lines

    other comparisons I have seen today include:
    Should Lance Armstrong be given his titles back?
    Ben Johnson his gold medal?
    Milli Vanilli their Grammys?

    to me, if you cheated to get there you shouldn’t be in the HOF, but like you said, where do you start drawing the lines
    I just don’t care for the argument that it wasn’t illegal then, or everyone else was doing it
    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,275
    I’m fine with them taking PED’s into consideration but to simply blackball some guys and not others is just ludicrous. 

    If someone wants to look at a guy like Ortiz or Sosa and say “ya know, looking at these numbers and the way his career unfolded, I don’t think he has the resume without PED’s”, I feel like that’s part of the risk they took.  I’m not one of those that says, they got the numbers, they saved baseball, whatever…Just make informed decisions and leave the grudges and asskissing out of it.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,343
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
    Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball.
    Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
    It wasn’t necessarily a “case for induction”…..it was more an “every era is different “ argument.

    just like basketball numbers (e.g. 3 point shot and changes in coaching philosophies), football numbers (more games, protecting the QB, etc), baseball (integration, coast to coast travel, emphasis on relief pitching, etc.)
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,343
    erebus said:
    cutz said:
    cutz said:


    Can it still be a HOF when the Hit King, the Home Run King and the pitcher who won the most Cy Youngs are not in? But, Bud Selig is in the HOF?

    Do you take away the records from the players who took  Greenies (which were taken over decades)? The players who ONLY played against white players? Where does it end?

    Players should be in the HOF from their era, regardless of what people may THINK a player did, if they deserve to be inducted?
    Thoughts?
    Good questions. Some of the HOF decisions seem hypocritical. I understand your point about Selig.
    I’ve heard reasoning for Ortiz was that he never failed a test after (so he hid it better or played clean after being caught?)


    tons of guys DIDN’T fail tests. the only big names dumb enough to get caught were braun, manny (TWICE!), a-rod, tejada, palmiero, cruz and melky cabrera. 

    the selig case burns my ass…mr. see no evil do nothing act surprised. I also find it hypocritical that two steroid managers, torre and TLR, were elected on the first ballot.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • erebuserebus Posts: 485
    What’s going to happen when or if any of the Astro’s cheaters become eligible?
    will they be considered or will what they did be given a pass?
    granted, it was only for a certain period of time, but did it tarnish baseball’s reputation enough?
    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,343
    erebus said:
    What’s going to happen when or if any of the Astro’s cheaters become eligible?
    will they be considered or will what they did be given a pass?
    granted, it was only for a certain period of time, but did it tarnish baseball’s reputation enough?

    it will probably hurt them to a point but I doubt it will ultimately factor in.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,343
    a writer suggested the giants bring bonds back for a day in order to restart his HOF clock. I like that idea. :triumph:
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    Wobbie said:
    a writer suggested the giants bring bonds back for a day in order to restart his HOF clock. I like that idea. :triumph:
    He'd probably still hit a HR.
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,231
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
    Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball.
    Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
    To me, Bonds' case is so egregious.  He took chemicals to literally turn himself into a mutant.  Then he shattered a few of the best records.

    I have no love for Ortiz either.  He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.  

    But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line.  Nobody can.  There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long.  These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.  
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    MayDay10 said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
    Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball.
    Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
    To me, Bonds' case is so egregious.  He took chemicals to literally turn himself into a mutant.  Then he shattered a few of the best records.

    I have no love for Ortiz either.  He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.  

    But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line.  Nobody can.  There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long.  These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.  
    Say what you will about Arod and Bonds, they were the best hitters I ever saw besides Pujols.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 31,509
    Here comes another year where nobody should get in...
    FOX Sports MLB on Twitter quotHere are some potential newcomers for the 2023  Baseball Hall of Fame ballot  httpstcoJm8JhNV1l0quot  Twitter
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 15,836
    MayDay10 said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    Poncier said:
    Wobbie said:
    MayDay10 said:
     

    At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.





    Bonds - , faced 'roided pitchers, 
    Wow, talk about the weakest, most raaaaaaiiiin on your wedding day, homer defense of Bonds anyone could possibly come up with
    how is that a “homer” defense? Bonds and others were facing pitchers the likes of which ruth, maris, etc. never saw. Aaron faced great pitchers but he saw them over and over and they weren’t throwing 100+ mph. Do you realize how fast you have to react to 100 mph?
    Because you said the pitchers were "roided up" when Barry is the poster child (a very large poster to fit that enormous head) for steroids in baseball.
    Barry was at a disadvantage because he faced pitchers that took steroids? I'd say that his steroid use more than nullified that disadvantage. Only the most ardent of Bonds apologists would use pitchers on steroids to make his case for induction.
    To me, Bonds' case is so egregious.  He took chemicals to literally turn himself into a mutant.  Then he shattered a few of the best records.

    I have no love for Ortiz either.  He reeks of a 1-tool slugger who probably took steroids the whole time.  

    But I cant answer where to set the line and stop the line.  Nobody can.  There is no line since MLB stupidly ignored this problem for so long.  These neckbeard writers probably shouldnt be able to decide.  
    Say what you will about Arod and Bonds, they were the best hitters I ever saw besides Pujols.
    You gotta throw Ken Griffey Jr. in there too.

    Bonds and Arod were great, but Bonds was WAY, WAY greater. Obviously Bonds wins out on HRs and slugging percentage and all that, but I've always felt this strikeout/walk comparison was a good way to show how much better Bonds was than Arod....

    Bonds career plate appearances: 12,606
    Arod career plate appearances:  10,566

    Bonds career strikeouts: 1539
    Arod career strikeouts: 2287 (5th most all-time)

    Bonds career walks: 2558 (Most all-time)
    Arod career walks: 1338 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 13,719
    edited January 27
    Here comes another year where nobody should get in...
    FOX Sports MLB on Twitter quotHere are some potential newcomers for the 2023  Baseball Hall of Fame ballot  httpstcoJm8JhNV1l0quot  Twitter
    I mean, how is a guy like Matt Cain even on the ballot? Career 104-118 WL. Or R. A. Dickey with a120-118 career WL with a 4.04 ERA, if either gets one vote that person should be stripped of their voting privileges. Just silly.
    What are we even doing here? A career losing record is worthy of consideration for the Hall of Fame?
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 22,714
    Here comes another year where nobody should get in...
    FOX Sports MLB on Twitter quotHere are some potential newcomers for the 2023  Baseball Hall of Fame ballot  httpstcoJm8JhNV1l0quot  Twitter
    Beltran is close
    I miss igotid88
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