Auto-Save Draft feature temporarily disabled. Please be sure you manually save your post by selecting "Save Draft" if you have that need.

MLB 2022 Off Season

1656657658660662

Comments

  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 14,394
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HOU-->PDX-->KCPosts: 35,195
    Wobbie said:
    I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
    yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
    No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

    But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

    Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
    I think Grienke will go in as a Royal or Dback, Max will definitely go in as a Nat. Verlander (even though I'm an Astros fan, as you all know) should go in as a Tiger.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 21,871
    The Hall of Fame is finally letting steroid users in knowingly. David Ortiz is the only one voted in this year
    I miss igotid88
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,158
    Wonder if Ortiz will announce at his induction ceremony that he found the people responsible for him testing positive.

    What a joke.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    igotid88 said:
    The Hall of Fame is finally letting steroid users in knowingly. David Ortiz is the only one voted in this year
    they already did it with pudge, bagwell and piazza.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    Wonder if Ortiz will announce at his induction ceremony that he found the people responsible for him testing positive.

    What a joke.
    What a joke, is right.

    1 out of every 3 voters is a self righteous hypocrite. Sloppi was good but he’s a one tool DH, for god’s sake! :angry:
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 21,871
    Wobbie said:
    igotid88 said:
    The Hall of Fame is finally letting steroid users in knowingly. David Ortiz is the only one voted in this year
    they already did it with pudge, bagwell and piazza.
    That failed a test I mean. Those guys were "assumed" or "suspected". 
    I miss igotid88
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 15,438
    Ortiz but not Bonds or Clemons. What a joke. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    I just wonder how the “suspecteds” would have held up to two years of a dedicated newspaper probe and a $75 million federal/local investigation.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    And why does Scott Rolen get twice the votes as Jeff Kent, when Kent’s numbers are better, across the board?
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 12,968
    It's all anti-Wob bias!


    Congrats to Ortiz, well deserved (but Clemens should be going in with him)
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    Poncier said:
    It's all anti-Wob bias!


    Congrats to Ortiz, well deserved (but Clemens should be going in with him)
    it’s deserved but it’s so damned hypocritical.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
    oh…..and bonds’ seven MVPs (should have won two more) are seven more than sloppi won.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,279
    Wobbie said:
    And why does Scott Rolen get twice the votes as Jeff Kent, when Kent’s numbers are better, across the board?
    Rolen won 8 Gold Gloves at 3rd base.  That gives him an edge over Kent. I think both are borderline and would not vote for either if I had a vote.  
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 30,031
    Baseball is the last sport to put you in the hall for championships won. Lester was consistently very good, and probably very much indeed the best FA signing of the Cubs. But is no way a hall of famer.

    BA's JAWS score is my go-to:

    Hall of Fame Statistics

     
      Black Ink
        Pitching - 8 (383), Average HOFer ≈ 40
      Gray Ink
        Pitching - 148 (119), Average HOFer ≈ 185
      Hall of Fame Monitor
        Pitching - 98 (105), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
      Hall of Fame Standards
        Pitching - 40 (78), Average HOFer ≈ 50
      JAWS
        Starting Pitcher (149th):
          44.2 career WAR | 34.6 7yr-peak WAR | 39.4 JAWS | 39.4 S-JAWS | 3.3 WAR/162
        Average HOF P (out of 66):
          73.0 career WAR | 49.8 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
      Black ink, grey ink?  WTH stats are these?
    • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 30,031
      Wobbie said:
      I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
      yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
      No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

      But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

      Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
      Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
      He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

      Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

      Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

      I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

      Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

      Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
    • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
      pjhawks said:
      Wobbie said:
      And why does Scott Rolen get twice the votes as Jeff Kent, when Kent’s numbers are better, across the board?
      Rolen won 8 Gold Gloves at 3rd base.  That gives him an edge over Kent. I think both are borderline and would not vote for either if I had a vote.  
      I’m not really advocating for Kent, but it surprises me that the all-time HR leader among 2B gets hardly a mention. He also has one more MVP than sloppi.

      it used to be easy to identify HOFers. not so much, anymore. the only guys I see as worthy, were also steroid users….even the borderliners like sheffield and petite. todd helton, scott rolen and andruw jones just don’t scream HOF to me.
      If I had known then what I know now...

      Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
      VIC 07
      EV LA1 08
      Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
      Columbus 10
      EV LA 11
      Vancouver 11
      Missoula 12
      Portland 13, Spokane 13
      St. Paul 14, Denver 14
      Philly I & II, 16
    • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 14,394
      Baseball is the last sport to put you in the hall for championships won. Lester was consistently very good, and probably very much indeed the best FA signing of the Cubs. But is no way a hall of famer.

      BA's JAWS score is my go-to:

      Hall of Fame Statistics

       
        Black Ink
          Pitching - 8 (383), Average HOFer ≈ 40
        Gray Ink
          Pitching - 148 (119), Average HOFer ≈ 185
        Hall of Fame Monitor
          Pitching - 98 (105), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
        Hall of Fame Standards
          Pitching - 40 (78), Average HOFer ≈ 50
        JAWS
          Starting Pitcher (149th):
            44.2 career WAR | 34.6 7yr-peak WAR | 39.4 JAWS | 39.4 S-JAWS | 3.3 WAR/162
          Average HOF P (out of 66):
            73.0 career WAR | 49.8 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
        Black ink, grey ink?  WTH stats are these?
        Stats that quantify hall of famers.
      • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 30,031
        Baseball is the last sport to put you in the hall for championships won. Lester was consistently very good, and probably very much indeed the best FA signing of the Cubs. But is no way a hall of famer.

        BA's JAWS score is my go-to:

        Hall of Fame Statistics

         
          Black Ink
            Pitching - 8 (383), Average HOFer ≈ 40
          Gray Ink
            Pitching - 148 (119), Average HOFer ≈ 185
          Hall of Fame Monitor
            Pitching - 98 (105), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
          Hall of Fame Standards
            Pitching - 40 (78), Average HOFer ≈ 50
          JAWS
            Starting Pitcher (149th):
              44.2 career WAR | 34.6 7yr-peak WAR | 39.4 JAWS | 39.4 S-JAWS | 3.3 WAR/162
            Average HOF P (out of 66):
              73.0 career WAR | 49.8 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
          Black ink, grey ink?  WTH stats are these?
          Stats that quantify hall of famers.
          I clicked the links and that is an interesting way of calculating a HOFer.  There are some guys that hit good throughout their careers and never led a thing.  Odd but it happens.  I do think a HOFer should be in the top 5 or so in a few categories.
        • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 30,031
          I just went and looked at Jimmy Rollins' career and I changed my mind, he doesn't get in...
        • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,122
          Im not sure where I come in on this.  I have always been kind of on the side of being punitive towards Bonds and Clemens especially, and to a lesser degree, Schilling.  I absolutely think it is hypocritical for these same voters to greenlight Ortiz.  

          At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.
          I hated Clemens by the way he acted like a baby and a bully in face of the allegations. 

          I think they should allow them in.  ARod should be in when it comes.  Induct Pete Rose and Joe Jackson too.  If Harold Baines gets in, these people should be in too.
        • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,279
          Baseball is the last sport to put you in the hall for championships won. Lester was consistently very good, and probably very much indeed the best FA signing of the Cubs. But is no way a hall of famer.

          BA's JAWS score is my go-to:

          Hall of Fame Statistics

           
            Black Ink
              Pitching - 8 (383), Average HOFer ≈ 40
            Gray Ink
              Pitching - 148 (119), Average HOFer ≈ 185
            Hall of Fame Monitor
              Pitching - 98 (105), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
            Hall of Fame Standards
              Pitching - 40 (78), Average HOFer ≈ 50
            JAWS
              Starting Pitcher (149th):
                44.2 career WAR | 34.6 7yr-peak WAR | 39.4 JAWS | 39.4 S-JAWS | 3.3 WAR/162
              Average HOF P (out of 66):
                73.0 career WAR | 49.8 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
            Black ink, grey ink?  WTH stats are these?
            Stats that quantify hall of famers.
            I clicked the links and that is an interesting way of calculating a HOFer.  There are some guys that hit good throughout their careers and never led a thing.  Odd but it happens.  I do think a HOFer should be in the top 5 or so in a few categories.
            The question is do you reward a lot of years of good seasons or do you prefer less years but more dominant?  Personally I think if you are never one of the top 4 or 5 players  (pitchers top 10) at your position during at least a few seasons of your career you are not really a hall of famer.  
          • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 11,279
            I just went and looked at Jimmy Rollins' career and I changed my mind, he doesn't get in...
            If you compare Rollins' numbers vs. other shortstops already in the Hall of Fame there is a very good argument he should be in.  Obviously his numbers vs other positions come up short.   Being a Philly fan I am biased and believe he should get in.
          • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 15,438
            pjhawks said:
            I just went and looked at Jimmy Rollins' career and I changed my mind, he doesn't get in...
            If you compare Rollins' numbers vs. other shortstops already in the Hall of Fame there is a very good argument he should be in.  Obviously his numbers vs other positions come up short.   Being a Philly fan I am biased and believe he should get in.
            And this goes tenfold for Utley and other second basemen. 
            2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

            Pearl Jam bootlegs:
            http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
          • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 30,031
            pjhawks said:
            I just went and looked at Jimmy Rollins' career and I changed my mind, he doesn't get in...
            If you compare Rollins' numbers vs. other shortstops already in the Hall of Fame there is a very good argument he should be in.  Obviously his numbers vs other positions come up short.   Being a Philly fan I am biased and believe he should get in.
            He was better than Deroucher, Arky Vaughn and Rizzuto.  Everyone else had better numbers than him.
          • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 30,031
            pjhawks said:
            Baseball is the last sport to put you in the hall for championships won. Lester was consistently very good, and probably very much indeed the best FA signing of the Cubs. But is no way a hall of famer.

            BA's JAWS score is my go-to:

            Hall of Fame Statistics

             
              Black Ink
                Pitching - 8 (383), Average HOFer ≈ 40
              Gray Ink
                Pitching - 148 (119), Average HOFer ≈ 185
              Hall of Fame Monitor
                Pitching - 98 (105), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
              Hall of Fame Standards
                Pitching - 40 (78), Average HOFer ≈ 50
              JAWS
                Starting Pitcher (149th):
                  44.2 career WAR | 34.6 7yr-peak WAR | 39.4 JAWS | 39.4 S-JAWS | 3.3 WAR/162
                Average HOF P (out of 66):
                  73.0 career WAR | 49.8 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
              Black ink, grey ink?  WTH stats are these?
              Stats that quantify hall of famers.
              I clicked the links and that is an interesting way of calculating a HOFer.  There are some guys that hit good throughout their careers and never led a thing.  Odd but it happens.  I do think a HOFer should be in the top 5 or so in a few categories.
              The question is do you reward a lot of years of good seasons or do you prefer less years but more dominant?  Personally I think if you are never one of the top 4 or 5 players  (pitchers top 10) at your position during at least a few seasons of your career you are not really a hall of famer.  
              I believe you need to have both.  Minimum of 10 good years.  This is why Mattingly isn't in.  he didn't have 10 good years but he had 5 great ones.
            • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 24,169
              Nobody should be allowed in the Hall Of Fame, until Fred Mcgriff is enshrined. 
              493 HR's and I am pretty damned sure he wasnt a steroid freak. 
              Free Boston Lou!!!!
            • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 21,871
              Wobbie said:
              I think Bumgarner and Lester are both on the outside looking in, but MadBum is closer than Lester imo because he has the next 6, 7, 8 years to change that.
              yeah, except for right now he kinda sucks.
              No doubt. Hopefully he can turn it around.

              But at the end of the day I think the first ballot guys are: Kershaw, Verlander, Kershaw, Grienke. Also, I guess Grienke goes in as a Royal and Scherzer as a Nat? Talk about two dominant guys that have spent close to half their time as journeymen (using that term very, very loosely).

              Now to some hot takes: Jimmy Rollins should be a HOFer, full stop.
              Out of all the names I saw thrown around, I agree with this one.  Rollins was really good for a run.  Does Howard get a chance in later?
              He didn't even get 5% and an argument could be made for him but I don't think he gets in.

              Scott Rolen?  If he gets in then Vizquel should but he will never see the Hall for the batboy incident.

              Modern pitchers Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander get in for sure.  Grienke I don't know.  I think DeGrom and Buehler are both headed in the right direction for that.  Sale hasn't done enough.

              I am on the fence w people like Andruw Jones.  Really good for a bit then fell off a cliff.  Beltre has 3000 hits so he gets in when eligible.

              Many Ramirez should get more votes.  I think he should be in.

              Kent, Sheffield, Helton and Petite are all fringe HOFers to me.  They were good but the numbers aren't there.
              Sheffield and Pettitte should be in.  Especially if people are saying Schilling should be in. Pettitte is over 100 wins over .500. That has to account for something 
              I miss igotid88
            • WobbieWobbie Posts: 27,191
              MayDay10 said:
               

              At this point though, there absolutely are roiders in the hall of fame.  They just didnt get caught or implicated.  I think Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling should be in at this point, but I do think they should somehow strip the HR records from Bonds (and McGuire) (and Sosa).  Aaron and Maris should still be the official HR record holders.  I think that is why I hate Bonds the most (and hated the other 2).  Basically cheapened those hallowed records.




              every "number" has circumstances.

              Ruth - no night games, no pitchers of color, often saw the same picher 4-5 times per game

              Aaron - they say if he had switched parks with Mays, Mays would have had the record

              Bonds - more at bats lost to intentional walks than the next two guys combined, faced 'roided pitchers, faced LOOGYs, hardly ever saw the same pitcher more than twice in a game
              If I had known then what I know now...

              Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
              VIC 07
              EV LA1 08
              Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
              Columbus 10
              EV LA 11
              Vancouver 11
              Missoula 12
              Portland 13, Spokane 13
              St. Paul 14, Denver 14
              Philly I & II, 16
            Sign In or Register to comment.