MLB 2020 Season

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Comments

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,228
    It is not the players fault if baseball doesn't get played. Fact.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,363
    It is not the players fault if baseball doesn't get played. Fact.
    what? both sides are at fault but in the end the players are going to lose more than the owners, as they always do.  and the public pays their salaries in the long run so it is kind of important not to piss off your customers. so to say it doesn't matter what people think is a dumb take.  Bottom line is the players have to come back. They cannot miss a full season especially when a large portion of the country is also struggling and while every other sport is also coming back. Being the only sport not to play and not playing this year over a few percentage points of their salaries will be a disaster and will take years to recover from.  Long term hit from not playing will be worse than the short term hit of playing at reduced salaries. 


    oh and the next time I hear an athlete spew how they are putting their lives in danger to play during this I think i'm gonna hurl.  Almost every normal person in the country has HAD to put themselves in danger during this.  People have had to go out since day 1 of this. Many people have had to work and many are now going back to work places.  so enough of the 'they want us to put our lives on the line'.  fuck that. first off the coaches are in far more danger than healthy athletes 20-30 years old. stfu with that bs.  athletes have this notion they are unique under these circumstances but they are not.  they are so out of touch with reality as i said in my first post about the players.


  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,363
    Who gives a shit who the public sides with? The public are generally morons. Why would and why should someone like JT Realmuto risk a a payday that will set their family up for generations over a salary he feels isn't fair?

    Football players hold out over contracts they agreed to all the time and mouth-breathers don't get their panties in a bunch over that.
    well you know because ultimately the public pays their salaries.  salaries in most sports will be taking a hit with revenues going down over the next few years anyway.   And Realmuto has no one to blame but himself for losing money come free agency. he went to arbitration and decided to play the year out instead of signing a long term deal in the off season.  he gambled and lost...BIG
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 11,065
    A few percentage points?
    For 82 games, Trout stands to go from a prorated 19 Million down to 5.75 million. That's more than a "few" percentage points.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,228
    pjhawks said:
    Who gives a shit who the public sides with? The public are generally morons. Why would and why should someone like JT Realmuto risk a a payday that will set their family up for generations over a salary he feels isn't fair?

    Football players hold out over contracts they agreed to all the time and mouth-breathers don't get their panties in a bunch over that.
    well you know because ultimately the public pays their salaries.  salaries in most sports will be taking a hit with revenues going down over the next few years anyway.   And Realmuto has no one to blame but himself for losing money come free agency. he went to arbitration and decided to play the year out instead of signing a long term deal in the off season.  he gambled and lost...BIG
    Oh my god. Because he didn't sign a team friendly deal and a pandemic hit, it's his fault?!?!

    Do you carry the water for your own bosses as much as you do for other people's?
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,162
    Are BOTH sides(Owners &  Players)  fucking this deal up?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,947
    pjhawks said:
    Who gives a shit who the public sides with? The public are generally morons. Why would and why should someone like JT Realmuto risk a a payday that will set their family up for generations over a salary he feels isn't fair?

    Football players hold out over contracts they agreed to all the time and mouth-breathers don't get their panties in a bunch over that.
    well you know because ultimately the public pays their salaries.  salaries in most sports will be taking a hit with revenues going down over the next few years anyway.   And Realmuto has no one to blame but himself for losing money come free agency. he went to arbitration and decided to play the year out instead of signing a long term deal in the off season.  he gambled and lost...BIG
    Oh my god. Because he didn't sign a team friendly deal and a pandemic hit, it's his fault?!?!

    Do you carry the water for your own bosses as much as you do for other people's?
    If I was an owner and we didn't play the full amount of games and no fans were in the stands you would not be getting your full salary.

    People that can not work from home go on unemployment and can not get back their backpay for unworked days.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,228
    pjhawks said:
    Who gives a shit who the public sides with? The public are generally morons. Why would and why should someone like JT Realmuto risk a a payday that will set their family up for generations over a salary he feels isn't fair?

    Football players hold out over contracts they agreed to all the time and mouth-breathers don't get their panties in a bunch over that.
    well you know because ultimately the public pays their salaries.  salaries in most sports will be taking a hit with revenues going down over the next few years anyway.   And Realmuto has no one to blame but himself for losing money come free agency. he went to arbitration and decided to play the year out instead of signing a long term deal in the off season.  he gambled and lost...BIG
    Oh my god. Because he didn't sign a team friendly deal and a pandemic hit, it's his fault?!?!

    Do you carry the water for your own bosses as much as you do for other people's?
    If I was an owner and we didn't play the full amount of games and no fans were in the stands you would not be getting your full salary.

    People that can not work from home go on unemployment and can not get back their backpay for unworked days.
    Then it's a good thing the players aren't asking for their full salaries
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,228
    But when they do go back to work, should they get their full pay for the days they are working?
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    Who knew Passan was such a shill?
    That is one of my biggest take aways.
    He is a pocket boy of the owners.
    See how that will help him moving forward....at least he will get half of the stories.  :lol:.   

    I try to avoid reading his stuff.  So full of plants he is like most journalists now....get you an opinion and hawk the fuck out of it...different dress?  Same opinion or viewpoint 
    Shill!
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,363
    edited May 29
    But when they do go back to work, should they get their full pay for the days they are working?
    Well an awful lot of people aren’t getting full payment even after going back to work. 

    And yes at times I’ve taken some concessions for the good of the company. And if my boss came to me telling me I could take less pay or other people are going to lose their jobs during this situation yes I would make concessions for the greater good. Maybe that makes me strange but I like to think I’m not a greedy prick and have some empathy for people I work with.  I also like to take a long term view.  I'd rather take some concessions in a short term than be harmed long term.  Clearly baseball players don't feel the same.  Now full disclosure I work for a rather small company so it is easier for me but I sure as fuck don't take any shame in carrying the water for my boss and company.

    As I said before the more the players take the people who are going to lose their jobs are going to be the daily low paid workers who work for these organizations. You know the people who sell tickets like you used to for the sixers. Would your thoughts be different if you still worked for the sixers? 

    #weareallinthistogether.  #alonetogether.  Well except Damian Lilliard and baseball players. 
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,750
    Be nice if the owners agreed to give fans money back for unused tickets and tv subscriptions.  We are all in this together.  
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    Owners only care about owners.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,750
    The MLB owners are using the tactic that the NFL owners used to extend the season and add playoff games ... there are more punters and long snappers and scrubs that may only play a few seasons on the bench then starters so make an appealing  deal for them and it will pass.   
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    edited May 29
    Except, in this case, it won't.  But I agree with what you are saying.
    And, Hawks, I discussed going without any pay before cutting any full time employees in our company.  We are not there yet but I believe in helping....however I know my company's finances.  This is a huge difference and what I keep pointing to - MLB could share the team books and my opinion might change a lot.
    Also....if I go without money and continue to work for six months my future earning power is not potentially ended or harmed.  (Probably would help it)
    Another different scenario for players vs public.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,947
    Jason P said:
    Be nice if the owners agreed to give fans money back for unused tickets and tv subscriptions.  We are all in this together.  
    If you paid for a service and it wasn't rendered then you should by all means get your money back.

    I almost pulled the trigger on Yankees partial tix this year, glad I didn't.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,228
    pjhawks said:
    But when they do go back to work, should they get their full pay for the days they are working?
    Well an awful lot of people aren’t getting full payment even after going back to work. 

    And yes at times I’ve taken some concessions for the good of the company. And if my boss came to me telling me I could take less pay or other people are going to lose their jobs during this situation yes I would make concessions for the greater good. Maybe that makes me strange but I like to think I’m not a greedy prick and have some empathy for people I work with.  I also like to take a long term view.  I'd rather take some concessions in a short term than be harmed long term.  Clearly baseball players don't feel the same.  Now full disclosure I work for a rather small company so it is easier for me but I sure as fuck don't take any shame in carrying the water for my boss and company.

    As I said before the more the players take the people who are going to lose their jobs are going to be the daily low paid workers who work for these organizations. You know the people who sell tickets like you used to for the sixers. Would your thoughts be different if you still worked for the sixers? 

    #weareallinthistogether.  #alonetogether.  Well except Damian Lilliard and baseball players. 
    Which is unfortunate. Companies that can pay employees their full wage when they go back should. I would imagine major league baseball teams have the ability to do this, but of course as F Me highlights, they won't open their books.

    That is good of you and I agree. If it were me taking a cut or people getting laid off, I would obviously be willing to take a cut.  I don't think this is MLB's argument though.   Baseball players also have a much shorter earning window.  I also don't think it is pay Mike Trout or pay the guy making $30k + commission to sell tickets. I don't think this example is relevant to baseball.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 30,228
    Jason P said:
    Be nice if the owners agreed to give fans money back for unused tickets and tv subscriptions.  We are all in this together.  
    My Extra Innings package didn't get charged and I think they said I would be charged a prorated amount if/when it starts. I did get charged the $20 for the app. Bullshit, but I didn't have it in me to fight with them over $20.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,363
    pjhawks said:
    But when they do go back to work, should they get their full pay for the days they are working?
    Well an awful lot of people aren’t getting full payment even after going back to work. 

    And yes at times I’ve taken some concessions for the good of the company. And if my boss came to me telling me I could take less pay or other people are going to lose their jobs during this situation yes I would make concessions for the greater good. Maybe that makes me strange but I like to think I’m not a greedy prick and have some empathy for people I work with.  I also like to take a long term view.  I'd rather take some concessions in a short term than be harmed long term.  Clearly baseball players don't feel the same.  Now full disclosure I work for a rather small company so it is easier for me but I sure as fuck don't take any shame in carrying the water for my boss and company.

    As I said before the more the players take the people who are going to lose their jobs are going to be the daily low paid workers who work for these organizations. You know the people who sell tickets like you used to for the sixers. Would your thoughts be different if you still worked for the sixers? 

    #weareallinthistogether.  #alonetogether.  Well except Damian Lilliard and baseball players. 
    Which is unfortunate. Companies that can pay employees their full wage when they go back should. I would imagine major league baseball teams have the ability to do this, but of course as F Me highlights, they won't open their books.

    That is good of you and I agree. If it were me taking a cut or people getting laid off, I would obviously be willing to take a cut.  I don't think this is MLB's argument though.   Baseball players also have a much shorter earning window.  I also don't think it is pay Mike Trout or pay the guy making $30k + commission to sell tickets. I don't think this example is relevant to baseball.
    Phillies have guaranteed their employees full pay at least through October.  of course let's see how that plays out when the players don't agree and there is no baseball at all this summer.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,162
    Jason P said:
    Be nice if the owners agreed to give fans money back for unused tickets and tv subscriptions.  We are all in this together.  
    My Extra Innings package didn't get charged and I think they said I would be charged a prorated amount if/when it starts. I did get charged the $20 for the app. Bullshit, but I didn't have it in me to fight with them over $20.
    I didn't get charged either for Extra Innings. I thought MLB App came with Extra Innings? I didn't have to pay for the App.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    Here is strike one against the owners.

    As I keep saying, there is some bullshit going down with the reporting of team P&Ls.


    HardballTalk : The Royals are paying everyone. Why can’t all of the other teams?
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 13,561
    Well the players essentially told the owners to fuck off with their 48 game proposal.  This is such a baseball move for them to fuck this up....people are beyond desperate for sports and they can't get it figured out.  Even the NHL has a plan!  Brutal.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    Baseball owners are the worst.
    I'm shocked that anyone would believe their unsubstantiated statements about finances.

    So are the heads of the players union
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,162

    MLB claims that umpire Angel Hernandez eavesdropped on an investigation


    By Daniel Kaplan 2h ago 68 

    Major League Baseball claimed umpire Angel Hernandez eavesdropped last July on a league investigative call looking into why a game between the Boston Red Sox and Tampa Bay Rays was delayed 14 minutes over confusion about the rules.

    Hernandez served as the acting crew chief for that game, in which the Red Sox played under protest but ultimately, after the loss, declined to further pursue the protest. He sued MLB in 2017, claiming the league racially discriminated against him by not promoting him or giving him recent World Series assignments.

    According to MLB legal filings Friday in the lawsuit, after the July 24 Rays-Red Sox contest, the league under then-chief baseball officer Joe Torre launched an investigation into the confusion and interviewed the umpires involved in the game. Torre then later claimed Hernandez did not get off the phone when his interview ended and listened to the interview of umpire Ed Hickox. MLB conducted a separate call with Hernandez on Aug. 19 to question him on the alleged eavesdropping. 

    “As you know, members of the Commissioner’s Office interviewed you and then Ed Hickox in back-to-back telephone conversations regarding the July 24 incident,” Torre wrote Hernandez in an Aug. 23 letter, a copy of which was attached to MLB’s filings. “These were purposefully scheduled as separate conversations, both to ensure confidentiality and to avoid the tainting of recollections. At the conclusion of your interview, unknown to anyone else at the time, you remained on the line during Hickox’s interview. 

    “You acknowledged that you were aware prior to the calls that they were intended to be separate and did not dispute that you remained on the line. Instead, you offered a number of excuses for why you remained on the line. You claimed to not know whether you were supposed to stay on the line and that you wanted to be available if anything further was asked of you … your purported justification for staying on the line (to address any further questions) strains credulity in light of your claim that you only heard portions of the Hickox call and the fact that you remained silent even when you heard statements by Hickox that you later claimed to be inaccurate. Simply put, we find your asserted justifications for remaining on the line to be implausible, internally inconsistent, premised on facts that are incorrect and not credible. As a result, we have concluded that you remained on the line in an effort to intentionally and deceptively eavesdrop on a confidential conversation in order to hear what Hickox would say about the July 24 incident. This is an egregious offense.”

    Torre then wrote he was stripping Hernandez of his acting crew chief status.

    A lawyer for Hernandez slammed MLB.

    “There is an old saying among lawyers if you have nothing to say about your clients attack the victim,” said Kevin Murphy of Murphy Landen Jones PLLC. “Angel Hernandez did not eavesdrop, he was invited onto that call … and MLB told Angel he made the correct decision.” Murphy described the eavesdropping allegation as a form of retaliation against Hernandez for pursuing his discrimination claims.

    The rule issue involved the Rays moving pitcher Adam Kolarek to first base. When a pitcher moves to a defensive post, under MLB rules that team loses its designated hitter. But according to Torre’s letter, Hernandez “had to be reminded of this Rule by your crew” even though MLB had briefed him on this very situation before that series.

    “Second, you failed to adhere to (a second) Rule … after Kolarek’s move to first base created two open positions in the batting order,” Torre continued. “When the Rays Manager, Kevin Cash, did not designate the batting order positions for his two substitutes, it was incumbent on you to determine the lineup. You did not.”

    The confusion and delays were widely reported at the time, with Hernandez taking a large share of the blame in the media.

    The Torre letter was affixed to a large batch of MLB filings seeking dismissal by the New York federal court of Hernandez’s lawsuit. Hernandez claims MLB has discriminated against him, and that Torre never forgave him for a call that went against the New York Yankees in 2001. Torre managed the club at the time and served as MLB’s head of baseball operations for nine years, until February, when the 79-year-old was named special assistant to commissioner Rob Manfred.

    “Hernandez has reiterated the allegation that Torre is motivated not by discriminatory animus but instead by the ire of a baseball manager against an umpire over an allegedly bad call in each subsequent amendment to his complaint,” MLB argued in a motion to dismiss the case. 

    In the motion, MLB does not dispute most of its crew chiefs are white, but writes that it is not statistically significant. 

    “Based on the results … for the employment decisions at issue, Dr. Denise Martin (MLB’s expert) concluded that the observed outcomes for crew chief promotions and World Series selections all were ‘statistically likely’ and that there was no statistical significance to the fact that there have been no minority umpires promoted to crew chief since 2011 and that only two were selected for the World Series between 2011 and 2018 (one being selected in two separate years),” MLB argued.

    A large part of the Cuba-born Hernandez’s argument is that MLB has long had a discriminatory practice of elevating white umpires and assigning them to the World Series. He points to the track record continuing under Torre of mainly white umpires getting promotions and plum World Series roles.

    “The evidence elicited in this case and discussed in this Motion shows that MLB has discriminated against Plaintiff individually and has also instituted policies and practices that have had the effect of disparately impacting both Plaintiff and other minority umpires as well,” Hernandez argued in an April 24 motion asking the court to rule in his favor. “MLB’s lack of diversity in leadership positions across baseball is widely known.”

    MLB’s response in legal filings is that its history of umpiring diversity doesn’t apply because Hernandez does not have the comportment to be a crew chief or work the World Series (Hernandez, who has received above-average evaluations from the commissioner’s office, did so in 2002 and 2003 before Torre assumed his role). In addition to the July 24 game delay and subsequent eavesdropping claim, MLB listed other incidents, including: 

    • Acting as an interim crew chief in 2012, Hernandez violated MLB rules by asking Homer Bailey, who had pitched a no-hitter, to autograph 11 baseballs for himself and the crew.
    • Having three calls overturned by replay in the first four innings of a 2018 playoff game between the Yankees and Red Sox.
    • Torre testified he observed Hernandez in another game throwing his headset after having his call overturned on instant replay. 
    • Allegedly refusing to change his mind on a replay decision from a 2013 Cleveland game.  Torre writes that the umpire still insists during his annual reviews that his call upholding a double high off the wall, rather than a home run, was solid. (Hernandez in his April motion explained: “the screen on which umpires reviewed replay at the time was small and was not in high definition.” Replays in 2013 were handled locally by the onsite umpires.)

    The Bailey incident is more severe, according to MLB, than reports in April, which were based on deposition testimony that Hernandez had tried to have one ball autographed for a crew member who called Bailey’s no-hitter. But in a letter dated Oct 2, 2012, attached as an exhibit to Friday’s filings, Torre wrote to Hernandez, “It has come to our attention that prior to the Reds-Pirates game of September 29, 2012, your crew sought out an MLB Authenticator and requested that he visit the umpire room. Upon the Authenticator’s arrival, your crew instructed the umpire room attendant also to summon Reds pitcher Homer Bailey who had pitched a no-hitter the night before. When he arrived Bailey was asked to autograph eleven baseballs, which then were authenticated for your crew’s own personal use.”

    Torre took the Bailey autographs seriously, writing in the disciplinary letter, “Threats to the integrity of the game will not be tolerated.” The letter ordered the umpire to return the balls and carried a fine, too. The amount is redacted, but the letter clearly got Hernandez’s attention. His check to MLB is dated Oct. 3, the next day. A copy of that check, with amounts blackened out, is included in the exhibit.

  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,162
    He must've had a bet or was drunk?

    https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1976479


    Miller Park vandal tried to write name in cursive on field with stolen tractor
    2h ago
    Icon Sportswire / Getty
    MILWAUKEE WI - SEPTEMBER 17 Miller Park before the second game of a four game home series between the Milwaukee Brewers and the San Diego Padres on September 17 2019 at Miller Park in Milwaukee WI

    A 40-year-old man is accused of breaking into Miller Park and subsequently trying to carve his name in cursive lettering into the grass with a stolen tractor, causing $40,000 in damage in the process, according to Elliot Hughes of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

    Keyon A. Lambert of Milwaukee was charged with a felony count of criminal damage to property and misdemeanor disorderly conduct.

    Lambert apparently entered the stadium on June 2 when he found an unlocked door. Grounds crew were present when he commandeered a tractor that was on location and drove it across the field of play.

    He told police he took the tractor because he had never driven one before, according to the criminal complaint. When grounds crew started recording him, "he decided to show off."

    Milwaukee Brewers officials described the damages as "minor" in a statement.

  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 11,065
    Even if he finished and escaped, they'd have known who to look for as he would have signed his name in the grass.
    #dumbcriminals
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    Funny/not funny story.
    What a boob.
    $40,000 in damage?
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,897
    Manfred says on MLB Channel last night they are "100%" playing baseball in 2020.
    Also drops a jab at wanting the players to move from salary demands.

    What a stooge 

    Owners are the ones who are screwing this up.
    Sooner or later people will realize this.
    All of the ESPN story plants will not give them the public's love 

    HardballTalk : The players are negotiating. The owners are not. It’s that simple.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,947
    Manfred says on MLB Channel last night they are "100%" playing baseball in 2020.
    Also drops a jab at wanting the players to move from salary demands.

    What a stooge 

    Owners are the ones who are screwing this up.
    Sooner or later people will realize this.
    All of the ESPN story plants will not give them the public's love 

    HardballTalk : The players are negotiating. The owners are not. It’s that simple.
    They'll end up playing that anemic 55 game schedule.  Watch.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,363
    Manfred says on MLB Channel last night they are "100%" playing baseball in 2020.
    Also drops a jab at wanting the players to move from salary demands.

    What a stooge 

    Owners are the ones who are screwing this up.
    Sooner or later people will realize this.
    All of the ESPN story plants will not give them the public's love 

    HardballTalk : The players are negotiating. The owners are not. It’s that simple.
    He has the power to impose that schedule if they can't come to an agreement.  the players are asking for a billion dollars more than the owners are offering.
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